Croesis wrote:
Roukan wrote:Croesis wrote:@ OP: I pay for my access to the game and to be able to post here, I think if I want to legitimately complain or state my mind about something, I will.Until you're banned. They're trying to save you from that.I don't rate myself as someone who is this forums most negative or outspoken so I'll continue to complain, whine, moan etc.. how I see fit. If I get banned then it'll be my fault and mine alone, I don't need anyone 'looking out' for me, especially unasked.
Roukan wrote:
Croesis wrote:@ OP: I pay for my access to the game and to be able to post here, I think if I want to legitimately complain or state my mind about something, I will.Until you're banned. They're trying to save you from that.
@ OP: I pay for my access to the game and to be able to post here, I think if I want to legitimately complain or state my mind about something, I will.
Until you're banned. They're trying to save you from that.
I don't rate myself as someone who is this forums most negative or outspoken so I'll continue to complain, whine, moan etc.. how I see fit. If I get banned then it'll be my fault and mine alone, I don't need anyone 'looking out' for me, especially unasked.
No one gets banned for crying, moaning, or whining.
Virrago wrote:
Croesis wrote:Roukan wrote:Croesis wrote:@ OP: I pay for my access to the game and to be able to post here, I think if I want to legitimately complain or state my mind about something, I will.Until you're banned. They're trying to save you from that.I don't rate myself as someone who is this forums most negative or outspoken so I'll continue to complain, whine, moan etc.. how I see fit. If I get banned then it'll be my fault and mine alone, I don't need anyone 'looking out' for me, especially unasked.No one gets banned for crying, moaning, or whining.
Yay! *gets ready for a massive QQ bout*
MatrixRefugee wrote:
Ebola wrote:Also, i think the thread title was subliminal messaging. "Lighten Up" as in lighting up a match... to start flames...CONSPIRACY!I greatly doubt that: I think she was trying to get people to realize they're only making the situation more miserable than it has to be when they could be using their time, energy and passion to make something good from what we have here.
Ebola wrote:
Also, i think the thread title was subliminal messaging. "Lighten Up" as in lighting up a match... to start flames...CONSPIRACY!
Also, i think the thread title was subliminal messaging. "Lighten Up" as in lighting up a match... to start flames...
CONSPIRACY!
I greatly doubt that: I think she was trying to get people to realize they're only making the situation more miserable than it has to be when they could be using their time, energy and passion to make something good from what we have here.
Don't worry, I immediately detected the sarcasm. I actually laughed out loud.
Anyways, back on topic, sure, it may seem like there is an air of people going around with a pretentious sense of entitlement, but you have to understand that we were promised so much at the beginning, and even though it was a sketchy start, we essentially got what we were promised. Then we had to endure a grueling beating of our legs with a baseball bat (a six month stand still as the transition from Monolith to SOE went on - six months!), and then endure a beating on the ground...with a baseball bat, not because we are stupid and we can't hit the "Cancel" button, but because we saw something amazing and we had hope that we'd see it again.
Okay, let's say somebody did have it up to their neck with disappointment from the game and decided to cancel, where was this die hard Matrix fan who loved the franchise for it's on par to a classic novel of an epic, which means understanding and appreciating the mythos of the sequels supposed to go?
Understand? Sure, some throw the garbage straight to the fan when they start whining, and sure some fool unleashes a Pandora's Box of histrionics, but that happens in any online game - any. Why? For the reason that most people who play online games from top economy countries who don't understand a world where things are not handed to them, so to an extent, you're right some people around here do have a pretentious sense of entitlement, but here, that's hardly the case to people's lament of the case of The Matrix Online's downfall. You didn't see what we had the honor to see.
You *can*, however, be banned for "excessive negativity," which can be defined as any form of crying, moaning, or whining.
You can't fool me, V.
ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:
Virrago wrote:No one gets banned for crying, moaning, or whining.You *can*, however, be banned for "excessive negativity," which can be defined as any form of crying, moaning, or whining. You can't fool me, V.
You can cry, moan, and whine all you want... it just needs to remain polite, civil, friendly, and constructive.
ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:Virrago wrote:No one gets banned for crying, moaning, or whining.You *can*, however, be banned for "excessive negativity," which can be defined as any form of crying, moaning, or whining. You can't fool me, V.You can cry, moan, and whine all you want... it just needs to remain polite, civil, friendly, and constructive.
*perfects his constructive bitterness*
The join date regards the date of forum registration. It took me over a year to register on these forums.
Darminian wrote:
I lol'd, you telling people to relax is like me telling people to be positive and hope for the best.
Now that you say so, I think I will.
Not surprisingly, a lot of individuals have chosen to take personal offense at a message directed at no one person. The language of the original message was meant to be strong enough to shake its reader into thinking about adopting a different perspective than that of the victim. If this point of view angered you, that's unfortunate but maybe it means it holds some truth for you.My intention is entirely well-meaning here. If I didn't care about this community I wouldn't have risked posting something I thought could eventually help but that I knew would be received as an unpopular point of view. However, for those who are not moved enough to say anything but do happen to share this perspective, I hope that it was a reminder that they aren't alone and don't need to succumb to this wave of negativity that is choking us.In an effort to push people to step back and zoom out to a broader view of things, it does not seem to have been clear just how broad I meant for it to be. Most backlash has been framed within the same sphere I was hoping to help nudge us out of - that is, the extremely narrow sphere that constitutes our little corner of cyberspace here. It sounds to me like what most detractors of my message are saying is that I don't and could never understand the depth of their loss and that I'm invalidating their grieving process. Also this set seem to think that new perspectives automatically belong in the garbage for some reason. That's a very reactionary point of view for a crowd inspired primarily by a guy who finally gained his power by learning to believe in his ability to change things.By no means do I think anybody is wrong to grieve the loss of this fabulous game as it once was (and please don't tell me I don't know how it was, while I've been trying to make a good time out of what IS here, all I've heard about since I got here is the "good old days" - in extensive detail - repeatedly). However, making it into a protracted grievANCE is not helpful to anybody here, including the grievance lobby.
So a major international corporate conglomerate failed to come through for you on your expectations. That's just you, me, and everybody else in the world. Sony is too big to care about what is going on here - that's just how it is with a large corporation. There's only so much personal touch you can expect. And it's just not worthwhile to demand accountability from your entertainment. You won't get it. You'll get told to go elsewhere. If you demand often enough you might eventually get enough attention to get us canned, but that's about it.My strong suggestion that we all try to look at how much we still have to be thankful for here has been met with almost nothing but retaliatory arguments suggesting that there is "nothing left". This is the crux of my argument - I'm not saying nobody has lost anything. I'm saying that "nothing" is a very relative term. Your idea of "nothing" is not the same as everybody else's. If this looks like nothing to you, I recommend having a look at a bombed out Afghan village or a Brazilian slum sometime. And that's it - I'm asking you to consider that while you have experienced a loss here, if you let that consume your perspective so much that it stops you from taking responsibility for your own enjoyment, the only person who loses in the end is you.So I'll repeat - let's show everybody how well we the people can rock this house without any help from The Man.
While I can understand your point of view, Kreis... I find it pretty tasteless and disgusting that you'd compare the loss of this game to a bombed out Afghan village or Brazillian slum.
People who use those kinds of tasteless comparisons really sicken me. From that viewpoint, everything in your life could be broken down to "Well, it could be worse... you could be living in a bombed out Afghan village."
Person: "My mother just got killed in a car crash..."Kreis: "Well, it could be worse. You could've lost your whole family in a Baghdad bombing!"
Do you understand what I'm saying? I think everyone is fully aware what condition less fortunate areas of the world are in. And I seriously doubt anyone is running into the street crying to the homeless crackheads about how we lost our developer in MxO.
So seriously, can the self-righteous soapbox crap. It doesn't have a place here.
People are PO'd because the $15 they pay doesn't get them what it did before. Let people complain, because they have every right to.
For me... I don't have a Station Pass. If I wanted to support other SOE endeavours, I would've gotten one. Instead, I have a dedicated MxO subcription (used to have three myself, but I've ditched two)... where the hell is my money going?
I'm sure there are people who would say that compared to the beginning, the current state of MxO closely resembles a bombed Afghan village. So we're back to the question of how it could be worse and we're quickly running out of ways.
Kreis wrote:
Not surprisingly, a lot of individuals have chosen to take personal offense at a message directed at no one person.When you don't direct something at one person, it's meant for a general group. Looks to me as though a general group responded.The language of the original message was meant to be strong enough to shake its reader into thinking about adopting a different perspective than that of the victim. If this point of view angered you, that's unfortunate but maybe it means it holds some truth for you.I could say the same thing about a conversation that happened about a month or two ago in Camon Heights. Funny how that fits, isn't it?My intention is entirely well-meaning here. If I didn't care about this community I wouldn't have risked posting something I thought could eventually help but that I knew would be received as an unpopular point of view. However, for those who are not moved enough to say anything but do happen to share this perspective, I hope that it was a reminder that they aren't alone and don't need to succumb to this wave of negativity that is choking us.By telling us "Stop being spoiled brats, and get the hell over it," you're just as guilty of perpetuating the "wave of negativity" as anyone else. You don't fix a situation by telling anyone "Well, this is better than that." You don't tell a r*pe victim "At least he/she didn't kill you." It fixes nothing, all it does is offend and anger. You should learn that, as it's an important lesson.In an effort to push people to step back and zoom out to a broader view of things, it does not seem to have been clear just how broad I meant for it to be. Most backlash has been framed within the same sphere I was hoping to help nudge us out of - that is, the extremely narrow sphere that constitutes our little corner of cyberspace here.You don't seem to fully fathom that this extremely narrow sphere is our world. At least, on these forums. If we wanted a broader view of the world, in its entirety, we'd be hanging out on CNN.com, not here. This is what we care about, or we wouldn't be here. You're not getting us out of this sphere, and you're only going to anger us by trying.It sounds to me like what most detractors of my message are saying is that I don't and could never understand the depth of their loss and that I'm invalidating their grieving process. Also this set seem to think that new perspectives automatically belong in the garbage for some reason. That's a very reactionary point of view for a crowd inspired primarily by a guy who finally gained his power by learning to believe in his ability to change things.First of all, who are you to talk about our reactionary point of view, when you button your lip and walk off at the first sign of a conversation you potentially won't like? Secondly, our inspiration is derived from a LOT more than a singal fictional character. If you really think us so simple, then perhaps you should look to horizons more fitting of your "broad" mindset.By no means do I think anybody is wrong to grieve the loss of this fabulous game as it once was (and please don't tell me I don't know how it was, while I've been otrying to make a good time out of what IS here, all I've heard about since I got here is the "good old days" - in extensive detail - repeatedly). However, making it into a protracted grievANCE is not helpful to anybody here, including the grievance lobby.And in what way is telling us how "sucking it up" going to change that particular equation to one that benefits us as a community? You need to understand, Kreis, that a number of us (not just I) have been trying like hell, for four plus years now, to keep this community moving in a positive and constructive direction, only to have one support beam cut out from under us, after another. If you've got some miracle "fix all", then by all means, hit us with it. I'll kiss your feet if you do. But if it's just "look on the bright side," then I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I'm not interested.So a major international corporate conglomerate failed to come through for you on your expectations. That's just you, me, and everybody else in the world. Sony is too big to care about what is going on here - that's just how it is with a large corporation. There's only so much personal touch you can expect. And it's just not worthwhile to demand accountability from your entertainment. You won't get it. You'll get told to go elsewhere. If you demand often enough you might eventually get enough attention to get us canned, but that's about it.BS. Two corporate conglomerates failed to DO WHAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO. It's called false advertising, and it's an infringement on player's rights. We're expected to sit down and shut up, because there's a EULA and a TOS to keep us in line and protect them from any wrongdoing on any behalf. Because it's "just a game," we're expected to shut up and sit down. When in actuality, no, we don't need to. When Wal-Mart advertises "The Lowest Prices in Town," and you go there with another store's lower price, do you expect them to do what they avertise and match that price? It's called ACCOUNTABILITY. You do what you advertise, or you deal with a lot of unhappy customers. That's exactly what this is. Because it revolves around a game is NO DIFFERENT than if it revolved around any other financial enterprise.My strong suggestion that we all try to look at how much we still have to be thankful for here has been met with almost nothing but retaliatory arguments suggesting that there is "nothing left". This is the crux of my argument - I'm not saying nobody has lost anything. I'm saying that "nothing" is a very relative term. Your idea of "nothing" is not the same as everybody else's. If this looks like nothing to you, I recommend having a look at a bombed out Afghan village or a Brazilian slum sometime.Afghanistan and Brazil have what to do with a MMO that was based on an ONGOING STORYLINE?! Maybe you haven't done all of the neighborhood missions. Most of us have, and were told we'd get much, much, more. Maybe you haven't done all of the Archive Missions. Most of us have, and were told that we'd get much, much, more. Maybe you haven't completed the majority of the in-game quests, dungeons, or archive constructs, but WE HAVE. And like it or not, sweetie, we're the majority. New players in this game, regardless of what anyone says, are far and few between... and yes, the ones that do come in are usually run off by the negativity of the community (which is perpetuated by our continued mistreatment.) You want to have fun with the content that's already here, GG, go right ahead, nobody will fault you, but DO NOT tell us to be happy with what we have. It is NOT your place.And that's it - I'm asking you to consider that while you have experienced a loss here, if you let that consume your perspective so much that it stops you from taking responsibility for your own enjoyment, the only person who loses in the end is you.I've taken responsibility for MY OWN enjoyment for a long time. In fact, I, like many others, have taken responsibility for OTHERS enjoyment as well. I've run countless events, just like the other players here. I've taken countless players on hardline tours, leveling groups, and so on, until I've gotten blue in the face. But what do you do when you lose the audience? We came here because of the promise of being entertained by the storyline that "Picks up where the Matrix Revolutions left off, and goes on from there." Well, you know what? It just ended... so ask me why they haven't canceled us yet.So I'll repeat - let's show everybody how well we the people can rock this house without any help from The Man.
Not surprisingly, a lot of individuals have chosen to take personal offense at a message directed at no one person.
When you don't direct something at one person, it's meant for a general group. Looks to me as though a general group responded.
The language of the original message was meant to be strong enough to shake its reader into thinking about adopting a different perspective than that of the victim. If this point of view angered you, that's unfortunate but maybe it means it holds some truth for you.
I could say the same thing about a conversation that happened about a month or two ago in Camon Heights. Funny how that fits, isn't it?My intention is entirely well-meaning here. If I didn't care about this community I wouldn't have risked posting something I thought could eventually help but that I knew would be received as an unpopular point of view. However, for those who are not moved enough to say anything but do happen to share this perspective, I hope that it was a reminder that they aren't alone and don't need to succumb to this wave of negativity that is choking us.
By telling us "Stop being spoiled brats, and get the hell over it," you're just as guilty of perpetuating the "wave of negativity" as anyone else. You don't fix a situation by telling anyone "Well, this is better than that." You don't tell a r*pe victim "At least he/she didn't kill you." It fixes nothing, all it does is offend and anger. You should learn that, as it's an important lesson.In an effort to push people to step back and zoom out to a broader view of things, it does not seem to have been clear just how broad I meant for it to be. Most backlash has been framed within the same sphere I was hoping to help nudge us out of - that is, the extremely narrow sphere that constitutes our little corner of cyberspace here.
You don't seem to fully fathom that this extremely narrow sphere is our world. At least, on these forums. If we wanted a broader view of the world, in its entirety, we'd be hanging out on CNN.com, not here. This is what we care about, or we wouldn't be here. You're not getting us out of this sphere, and you're only going to anger us by trying.It sounds to me like what most detractors of my message are saying is that I don't and could never understand the depth of their loss and that I'm invalidating their grieving process. Also this set seem to think that new perspectives automatically belong in the garbage for some reason. That's a very reactionary point of view for a crowd inspired primarily by a guy who finally gained his power by learning to believe in his ability to change things.
First of all, who are you to talk about our reactionary point of view, when you button your lip and walk off at the first sign of a conversation you potentially won't like? Secondly, our inspiration is derived from a LOT more than a singal fictional character. If you really think us so simple, then perhaps you should look to horizons more fitting of your "broad" mindset.By no means do I think anybody is wrong to grieve the loss of this fabulous game as it once was (and please don't tell me I don't know how it was, while I've been otrying to make a good time out of what IS here, all I've heard about since I got here is the "good old days" - in extensive detail - repeatedly). However, making it into a protracted grievANCE is not helpful to anybody here, including the grievance lobby.
And in what way is telling us how "sucking it up" going to change that particular equation to one that benefits us as a community? You need to understand, Kreis, that a number of us (not just I) have been trying like hell, for four plus years now, to keep this community moving in a positive and constructive direction, only to have one support beam cut out from under us, after another. If you've got some miracle "fix all", then by all means, hit us with it. I'll kiss your feet if you do. But if it's just "look on the bright side," then I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I'm not interested.
So a major international corporate conglomerate failed to come through for you on your expectations. That's just you, me, and everybody else in the world. Sony is too big to care about what is going on here - that's just how it is with a large corporation. There's only so much personal touch you can expect. And it's just not worthwhile to demand accountability from your entertainment. You won't get it. You'll get told to go elsewhere. If you demand often enough you might eventually get enough attention to get us canned, but that's about it.
BS. Two corporate conglomerates failed to DO WHAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO. It's called false advertising, and it's an infringement on player's rights. We're expected to sit down and shut up, because there's a EULA and a TOS to keep us in line and protect them from any wrongdoing on any behalf. Because it's "just a game," we're expected to shut up and sit down. When in actuality, no, we don't need to. When Wal-Mart advertises "The Lowest Prices in Town," and you go there with another store's lower price, do you expect them to do what they avertise and match that price? It's called ACCOUNTABILITY. You do what you advertise, or you deal with a lot of unhappy customers. That's exactly what this is. Because it revolves around a game is NO DIFFERENT than if it revolved around any other financial enterprise.My strong suggestion that we all try to look at how much we still have to be thankful for here has been met with almost nothing but retaliatory arguments suggesting that there is "nothing left". This is the crux of my argument - I'm not saying nobody has lost anything. I'm saying that "nothing" is a very relative term. Your idea of "nothing" is not the same as everybody else's. If this looks like nothing to you, I recommend having a look at a bombed out Afghan village or a Brazilian slum sometime.
Afghanistan and Brazil have what to do with a MMO that was based on an ONGOING STORYLINE?! Maybe you haven't done all of the neighborhood missions. Most of us have, and were told we'd get much, much, more. Maybe you haven't done all of the Archive Missions. Most of us have, and were told that we'd get much, much, more. Maybe you haven't completed the majority of the in-game quests, dungeons, or archive constructs, but WE HAVE. And like it or not, sweetie, we're the majority. New players in this game, regardless of what anyone says, are far and few between... and yes, the ones that do come in are usually run off by the negativity of the community (which is perpetuated by our continued mistreatment.) You want to have fun with the content that's already here, GG, go right ahead, nobody will fault you, but DO NOT tell us to be happy with what we have. It is NOT your place.And that's it - I'm asking you to consider that while you have experienced a loss here, if you let that consume your perspective so much that it stops you from taking responsibility for your own enjoyment, the only person who loses in the end is you.
I've taken responsibility for MY OWN enjoyment for a long time. In fact, I, like many others, have taken responsibility for OTHERS enjoyment as well. I've run countless events, just like the other players here. I've taken countless players on hardline tours, leveling groups, and so on, until I've gotten blue in the face. But what do you do when you lose the audience? We came here because of the promise of being entertained by the storyline that "Picks up where the Matrix Revolutions left off, and goes on from there." Well, you know what? It just ended... so ask me why they haven't canceled us yet.So I'll repeat - let's show everybody how well we the people can rock this house without any help from The Man.
Phrack wrote:
A bunch of fantastic things that made me laugh.
The end... before it's removed.
~Darminian
I think it is fully valid to expect to receive that which was promised, and I don't think that censoring oneself is necessarily an answer either... We all love the game for the alternate reality it represents, and it is definitely helped along when we get new content, events etc... However, we all need to face the reality that it's not going to happen no matter how loud our individual voices are.
The only hope we can have for Sony to put more money into something is to think about it from an economical perspective. A handful of the same irate voices will not change anything. One collective voice? Perhaps... The game continuing on and people still enjoying it .... perhaps even better. Even then, I wouldn't get my hopes up. So we have a reality to face.... things are not going to get better - period.
At some point an ultimate decision will have to be made... either cancel your subscription, or keep playing and make the best of it.... we all know Kreis is choosing option B. Doesn't mean you are wrong or bad for choosing option A. But it shouldn't make her a target either.
Realize that I empathize, but am also realistic.
The logic is very, very faulty here IMHO. Maybe they should charge $30 or $50 for a monthly subscription rate for MxO, because simply to jack in to an mmo with no content is an honor and a priveledge, and we should be fotunate that SOE allows us to pay them to jack into a dead game, and that it is insolent and offensive to ever question them or even to give an explanation of exactly what we should expect to get for our subscripion fees. After all, All Corporations are Always right All the time.*
*Just ask AIG, General Motors, Bear Stearns, Washington Mutual, Circuit City, Madoff Investment Group, etc....OK maybe not the best analogy but certainly no worse than your bombed out Afghan village spiel.
