I don't need to sit here and take this - Recursion - 5/16/06

**ZippyTheSquirrel**

This is the one quote that will end this silly debate:

[Barakoa: Catch him!!]

[Barakoa shouts: Go!!]

You pathetic little dreamers. All you had to do was keep Anome from following him. That was it. Instead you chase him out into traffic. Pathetic.

/jedihandwave

I have nothing more to say to you. Expect hositilites between us to increase.

/target Barakoa

/insult

**Neoteny**

Alright, Anome, I'll admit it. I definitely thought you to be at fault here. So much so that I would've been willing to see you removed from Zion's ranks by any means necessary, but these photos and your report have proven otherwise to me.

In my eyes it is now evident that this bluepill was acting quite rationally while meeting privately with Anome. It does not appear that the topic of choice had even come up before the Cypherites stormed the location and began bombarding the man with vibrant and frightening images of losing his entire family and began repeatedly berating him with the offer of the blue pill even before Anome made mention of the true nature of the Matrix.

It is apparent to me that because of Cypherite involvement in this operation, the bluepill was so confused he made a mad dash to get away from it all. And on top if it all, the Cypherites attempted to chase him down, and then spread rumors that it was Anome who pushed him into the street and was ultimately responsible for the car crash which ended his life.

This only furthers my disdain for the Cypherites... You disciples of the blue pill could at least practice what you preach. Anome may well have offered the blue pill to Robert Kendell, but considering the situation at hand, you did that job for him a little too well. You pushed him to one extreme, and the extreme that Anome took was necessary to try and reach an equilibrium between the two very forceful tugs on either end of the rope in this game of blue pill/red pill tug of war, which eventually resulted in a snap which forced this man to go mad.

In order to protect the bluepills, you need to take into consideration the other extreme. That you are, perhaps, too strongly encouraging them to accept a world which they naturally reject. There is a reason beyond psychology some potentials select the red pill. In the future, please be so kind as to send only one representative from your organization instead of an armada surrounding the man and confusing him to the point where he believed you were a secret organization out to get him for one thing or another.

You have quite a bit of explaining to do for spreading the rumors that Anome was directly responsible for the death of this man.

Anome, you have my sincerest apologies, and full support in this movement. However, Symmetric is also correct in that an alternative which should have been taken would have been rescheduling a meeting with this man. However, I can also see whre you may have thought that had you backed down at this point, the Cypherites would have taken "preventative" actions towards keeping you, or followers of Zion from providing him with proper choice. I do, however, feel that you should have taken that risk. After all, being trapped within the system is still better than the ultimate fate which this man suffered.

May whatever God rules over this barren land- this arid, mechanical, real Earth which we inhabit- have mercy on your eternal souls, all of you.

reznik

Your actions there were disgusting, Anome. Forcing a redpill to reconstruct or even killing them is one thing, but killing a bluepill without just cause?

But it is your inability to admit to your obvious crime that I find the most appalling.

You are truly the lowest of your organization. At least when Morpheus killed, it was for what he believed in. Even when EPN members set off code bombs, they took responsibility for their actions.

This is not a matter of what organization you belong, this is not a matter of who was there opposing you, this is a matter of justice.

And when you refuse to take part in justice, there are always consequences.

**Midnight**

reznik wrote:

Your actions there were disgusting, Anome. Forcing a redpill to reconstruct or even killing them is one thing, but killing a bluepill without just cause?

But it is your inability to admit to your obvious crime that I find the most appalling.

You are truly the lowest of your organization. At least when Morpheus killed, it was for what he believed in. Even when EPN members set off code bombs, they took responsibility for their actions.

This is not a matter of what organization you belong, this is not a matter of who was there opposing you, this is a matter of justice.

And when you refuse to take part in justice, there are always consequences.

Did you even read the transcripts or see the eyewitness photos? Anome did not kill this guy the Cypers did.

You keep refer to him as though he PUSHED him. He didnt do anything they did.

reznik

MidnightFH wrote:

reznik wrote:

Your actions there were disgusting, Anome. Forcing a redpill to reconstruct or even killing them is one thing, but killing a bluepill without just cause?

But it is your inability to admit to your obvious crime that I find the most appalling.

You are truly the lowest of your organization. At least when Morpheus killed, it was for what he believed in. Even when EPN members set off code bombs, they took responsibility for their actions.

This is not a matter of what organization you belong, this is not a matter of who was there opposing you, this is a matter of justice.

And when you refuse to take part in justice, there are always consequences.

Did you even read the transcripts or see the eyewitness photos? Anome did not kill this guy the Cypers did.

You keep refer to him as though he PUSHED him. He didnt do anything they did.

I suggest that you take a closer look at them, friend.

No such information is gained from them.

In fact Anome is the only person close enough to the blue to have pushed him.

The screenshots show Cypherites chasing a frightened man out of a bar and into a street where he was killed by a car. I never saw Anome chasing Mr. Kendall, I never heard Anome say, "Get him!", I never saw Anome driving this innocent man mad. But the Cypherites did all that, and then blamed it on Anome.

**Fen**

Again. Cypherites, back up your claims with proof that Anome killed this man. One can not accept the word of a Cypherite. If you want anyone to sympathize with you, or believe that Anome pushed this man in the streets, you're going to need to show some proof. Otherwise, you will be held accountable for the unfortunate death of Mr. Kendell.

**Fen**

I wasn't talking to you.

EDIT: I'm not questioning whether Anome was going about the recruitment the right way. That's not the issue. My issue is with the claims that Anome pushed this man into traffic. From what I see, it was, in fact, the Cypherites that drove him over the edge and chased him out into the street. Unless they can show their own photographs and audio logs, then that is exactly what we will all continue to believe.

Message Edited by Fenshire on 05.21.2006 02:53 AM
Message edited by Fen on 05/20/2006 22:53:38.

**Davo**

stupid double posting, my bad :smileyindifferent:

Message Edited by Davo on 05.21.2006 03:00 AM
Message edited by Davo on 05/21/2006 00:00:00.

**Davo**

Fenshire wrote:

I wasn't talking to you.

EDIT: I'm not questioning whether Anome was going about the recruitment the right way. That's not the issue. My issue is with the claims that Anome pushed this man into traffic. From what I see, it was, in fact, the Cypherites that drove him over the edge and chased him out into the street. Unless they can show their own photographs and audio logs, then that is exactly what we will all continue to believe.

Message Edited by Fenshire on 05.21.200602:53 AM

Fenshire, my main man, I think you are on a literal trip. You must be envisioning anome grabbing a hold of him and forcing him into traffic. This was a metaphoric push, Anome was yelling and cursing, pushing things way too fast, way too far, and without giving him proper choice. Anome's actions are what "pushed" this guy to the edge. It is evenings like this one that create a need for the cypherite cause, you make your own enemies and expose your own weaknesses more and more zion.

**Fen**

Thank you for your honesty, Davo. In my opinion, based on the visuals and audio logs, it was the Cypherites who were to blame for the death of Mr. Kendell. Anome, even though I'd like to put a bullet in his skull, wasn't the one to bring up the traumas of the man's past.

The best solution to the problems above would be to standardize the awakening process. That way, we don't have Cypherites trying to cram the blue pill down peoples' throats, and we don't have Zion neglecting to offer a choice.

Kidgil

I think I might be the first Cypherite here to say they are ashamed of both sides involved. We are not here to force the bluepill down peoples throats. That makes us no better than those Zionists throwing reddies around like candy to any passerby. Anome did not offer the man the choice like he should have. But neither did the Cypherites involved. How quickly we forget that the choices we make have already been made. At a mere unconcious level we have all chosen to accept or reject the Matrix. Those who promote the bluepill are a direct result of the forcable nature of the Zionists who think that the choice is made on the spot, after living a life in the Matrix. If someone wants out, they find you do they not? This man was not searching for answers. He was searching for comfort. All he wanted was his life back.

Why does every bluepill that looks like they might be a candidate for "the choice" become a mere object to be fought over? I did not choose to join the Cypherites because I want to go back to sleep. Nor do I want everyone in the Matrix to stay in their pods. I want those who are not part of the 1% of humanity who rejects the system to keep their lives. Freedom does not exist just outside of the simulation. It exists to those who choose to live a normal life within these invisible walls.

I do not blame one party over the other. I just believe we all need to rethink what we are doing with regards to the lives of the dreamers.

To the Cypherites who were there: Tone it down. You're becoming the complete opposite of E Pluribus Neo. From one extreme to the other. We aren't here to pressure anyone.

To Anome and other Zionists who have contempt for us: We are the product of your overzealous recruiting. We aren't the enemy, we are the guardians of the defencless. Remember to watch out for the signs of a waker before cramming that red pill down their throat. The vast majority don't want it.

- A concerned Cypherite

**Vaico**

Kidgil wrote:

To Anome and other
Zionists who have contempt for us: We are the product of your
overzealous recruiting. We aren't the enemy, we are the guardians of
the defencless. Remember to watch out for the signs of a waker before
cramming that red pill down their throat. The vast majority don't want
it.

- A concerned Cypherite

No,
thats the Machines Job. If people wanna go back Agents can reinsert
them. Cypherites exsist so they can force people back into their pods
with a bluepill or with death.

**xenin**

The way i see it is this, the screenshots show that Anome was having a normal recruiting conversation with Mr Kendall, although he is old for extraction, there are times when the odd exception comes along and is neccessary to extract them, then the Cypherites came in hopeing that, from their view, wouldn't have to suffer the Real world like they did. It is argued that Anome didn't offer the freedom of choice, that he didn't offer the Bluepill, but how do we know he wasn't going to offer the Bluepill? well we won't ever know but it is usual standard Zion procedure to do so, he might have done had not the Cypherites interfered and Angered him, which is what i think made Anome just offer the Redpill. The Cypherites offered the Bluepill, but it is argued that it is the Cypherites, Not Anome, that didn't allow for choice, but they could have had a Redpill too, again we won't ever know, althogh if i was in their postion i would have had the Redpill just in case, could't hurt them to have another soldier to their cause. The Cypherites used the argument that Mr Kendall's family needed him and that he should stay, but it is clear the Mans wife and kids had left him, next when things were getting desperate, Cypherites started being tactless by blackmailing Mr Kendall, by saying things like "If you take the Redpill, you will never see your family again" clearly this was tactless on their part, Anome unfortunately didn't use the Truth to his advantage by persauding Mr Kendall what realy would happen, but again under such preassure the words just didn't come out for him. Next after awhile, Mr Kendall ran out of the Bar, chased by the Cypherites saying things like "Get him" and "Go" with Anome bringing up the rear cursing the Cypherites, then Mr Kendall gets killed by a car, at which point the Cypherites blame Anome and visa versa, Anome calls Zion tactical team to take care of Cypherites, and what looks like he Runs off, well no point in giving them a chance to kill him, some see it as cowardice, but then you could say the same thing everytime someone rolls out of a fight, at which point it could also bee seen as survival.

Judging by the fact that it's just mostly the Cypherites blaming Anome for the incident, Well i would expect as such everyone protects their organisations actions, and on the other hand its's mostly Zionites, Neonites and Machnists who say its's the Cypherites fault for getting the Bluepill killed,. despite all the Cypherites best efforts to say its Anomes fault, in reality this incident is a Great blow for the Cypherite cause, as their reputation has just been tarnished, i guess nothing really goes to plan. I do believe however that Anome was doing the right thing, GO ZION :smileyvery-happy:

Kidgil

No,
thats the Machines Job. If people wanna go back Agents can reinsert
them. Cypherites exsist so they can force people back into their pods
with a bluepill or with death.

That is where you are wrong. I'm not trying to get Awakened people reinserted, I'm trying not to let Bluepills who don't want the truth to be forced to wake up. Machinists are all for the moderation but as long as they are truced with Zion they see Cypherites as the enemy. We don't want to force anyone back to the pods. If you choose to live outside of the simulation, have fun. As far as you E Pluribus Neo folk go, you're spitting on Neo's grave by waking up every bluepill who walks your way. Only 1%, count it 1% of the bluepill population wants "freedom" as you call it. Do you even know why you're doing it? It sure as hell doesn't benifit the sleeping.

That's what I defend. As a Cypherite I am here to keep those who don't want the red pill from getting tricked into a life they don't want, fighting for a cause that is meaningless.

Message Edited by Kidgil on 05.21.2006 08:41 PM

Message Edited by Kidgil on 05.21.2006 08:42 PM
Message edited by Kidgil on 05/21/2006 03:42:49.