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The Other Side of the Looking Glass - Friday, November 3, 2006
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Jacked Out

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Mathias wrote:
Well why not make that new org like EPN and Cyph just for mervs...
Because maybe we're not in that part of the story yet?

Duplicate post submission ftw.


Systemic Anomaly

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mitez wrote:
Im glad there are no more organisations, theres already too  many (hence mervs and machs merge). 
Personally i think that we shud maybe cut down on the amount of crits per org as this way they will have more time to work on real content cos tbh im starting to get tired to even do the crits.  Also its things like luggable items which bring people to the game and not the episodic content. 

See, that's how different people's tastes and interests can be. For me, the crits (and rest of the story) is the "real content" that keeps me playing (well, not only the crits).

The luggables are just a neat addition (for others) to me. Of course not if it starts playing a role in live events.


Systemic Anomaly

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mitez wrote:
Im glad there are no more organisations, theres already too  many (hence mervs and machs merge). 
Personally i think that we shud maybe cut down on the amount of crits per org as this way they will have more time to work on real content cos tbh im starting to get tired to even do the crits.  Also its things like luggable items which bring people to the game and not the episodic content. 
Wrong.

While content is important in a static, external-to-the-storyline sense, and i'll enjoy it, I bought this game, and continue to play it, for the episodic content and the unfolding storyline. Now i'm no advocator of the way they have to deliver it (read: Mission system) but i'm not about to tell them to scrap the whole storyline because of it.

And thus, because I disagree with you, it proves that a balance is important.



Vindicator

Joined: Aug 20, 2005
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Thanks for the updates, Walrus. I hope you get my 2nd PM about the contest; I read the looking glass late.

As far as the content, I feel like the Storyline is the most important thing the devs can provide us with, followed by a balanced combat system. After all, this is a video game!

As a community we can feasably PvP, implement the RP items as "luggables" and create as many organizations as we can think of. I've said it before, don't wait for the devs to implement something that you are capable of doing yourself. Even if it is just with your circle of friends. You can implement language, RP storylines, politics, anything! It dosn't seem to be a lack of creativity in this community, only a lack of ambition.






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Balance is the word that keeps creeping up and i really do think that this game is far from balancing episodic content with real content (by that i mean things like luggables).

Ok we have these missions every update whereas we only get a good piece of good, fresh content once in a blue moon, or halloween moon as Pandoras box was last which came out about a month be4 haloween and luggables near this halloween will be coming out. 

Now seriously when people come back and post a thread asking what new content has come, people get embarassed to say its just episodic content as thats all what is ever new, people have to bring up the smallest additions and tweaks to make the game look as if its been in good develpment, which is all well and good to attract new people but at the end of the day youre just lying to yourself.

Now personally ive now put a stop to doing crits due to the similarity to that and normal missions.  My opinion is that the amount of crits must be reduced (not removed as too many people play for it).  I bet if Rarebit told the truth he would say a lot of his time is consumed doing crits.   It was only just feasible for him to work on other things when HcFrog was around but him now solo'ing it all its near impossible now for anything to get done. 

I feel that storyline is mainly for those who track it, those who would track it is long term players who have been able to keep up with it, now how the hell do you attract new players to stay when the only alternative to missions are crits, where they have no idea what the storyline is about, at least the quest system if nothing else entices new players to stay for a little longer. (im not a huge fan of the quest system but its an alternative to grinding so it is still very good and is very needed).

Now it maybe only me but i see more excitement when they mention luggables then more episodic missions.  Like i said i dont think episodic content should be removed as its the thing that makes MXO unique from other games and that you may not like but respect, but its time for the MXO team to learn they cannot cope with all the work and they have to comprimise somewhere and that somewhere is with episodic content. 

  


Message edited by mitez on 11/04/2006 11:45:11.


Systemic Anomaly

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But the game exists because of the story. Yes - there wouldn't be any Matrix Online without the the concept of a storyline. How do new players track it? Well, much of the previous story is archived, either officially or unofficially, those who're interested can track it.
How do you expect new viewers to join an on-going TV show (with the storyline going from season to season) if they haven't tracked it? Well, that's the point. It's for those who do track it.

You're saying episodic content shouldn't be removed because people wouldn't like it. But what if they also wouldn't like if it was reduced?
What about those who care more about the episodic content than luggables?

Meh, just a disagreement of personal interests.

Message edited by zeroone506 on 11/04/2006 12:12:36.


Mainframe Invader

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"Then there's the logistical side. We have to produce five critical missions for each Organization every episode. I suppose we could do an extra ten missions each cycle. However, that means we wouldn't be working on other things. What should we cut? Live Events? Luggables? Bug fixes? Art and text tweaks? "

could u at least try ? would it really hurt the game that badly to try?

"It certainly would reduce our ability to add any new features."

umm live events rare but all we do is go to meetings or hunt down a high level mob attacking it with little damage till it dies. luggables cool but not a necessity. bug fixes dont care much havnt experianced any. art and text tweaks uhhh k. so what new features are u trying to implement since ur "We're just making The Matrix Online the best game we can" right?



Jacked Out

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Ah yes, the ad contest, yes... SMILEY

Anyways, good stuff all around, the term "luggables" is becoming more and more strange and wonderous... I remember the first big outrage we all had months and months ago when we found out that more Organizations would be out-of-hand; not available (yet). And the reasons still make sense to this day. I missed this new thread, though. Ah well.


Systemic Anomaly

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Walrus, if the dev team is not going to consider ever implementing the Cypherite and E Pluribus Neo organizations because text and graphic improvements are more needed and content worthy(even though theres nothing wrong with the text, and the graphics are the most beautiful of any MMO on the market), please, stop letting us hang onto threads of shattered dreams and remove the tags from our factions. Ask any of the remaining Cypherites, we couldn't much give a *CENSORED* if we had crits for the org, we just wanted to be able to flag hostile to the other orgs for both RP and PvP purposes.

Fen


Systemic Anomaly

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Rogue wrote:
Walrus, if the dev team is not going to consider ever implementing the Cypherite and E Pluribus Neo organizations because text and graphic improvements are more needed and content worthy(even though theres nothing wrong with the text, and the graphics are the most beautiful of any MMO on the market), please, stop letting us hang onto threads of shattered dreams and remove the tags from our factions. Ask any of the remaining Cypherites, we couldn't much give a *CENSORED* if we had crits for the org, we just wanted to be able to flag hostile to the other orgs for both RP and PvP purposes.


I've got to give a big QFT for RogueA, here.

If you're not going to give the Cypherites and E Pluribus Neo their own REAL orgs, then just end those storylines.  One of the major appeals these two orgs had for so long, was that when they became available, it'd be something different then the main orgs.  As it is, EPN is just Zion, and Cyph is just Machine.

I understand why you can't make the orgs seperate, and I greatly appreciate you answering our concerns in this matter.  But seriously...  what's the point of having the EPN and CYPH orgs if they're not even real orgs to begin with (in a game mechanic sense)?




Jacked Out

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They can't just end those storylines because of this.
Who knows how it effects the future storyline?
And there still is stuff I want to know about Cryptos, so just don't SMILEY


Systemic Anomaly

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Fen wrote:
Rogue wrote:
Walrus, if the dev team is not going to consider ever implementing the Cypherite and E Pluribus Neo organizations because text and graphic improvements are more needed and content worthy(even though theres nothing wrong with the text, and the graphics are the most beautiful of any MMO on the market), please, stop letting us hang onto threads of shattered dreams and remove the tags from our factions. Ask any of the remaining Cypherites, we couldn't much give a *CENSORED* if we had crits for the org, we just wanted to be able to flag hostile to the other orgs for both RP and PvP purposes.


I've got to give a big QFT for RogueA, here.

If you're not going to give the Cypherites and E Pluribus Neo their own REAL orgs, then just end those storylines.  One of the major appeals these two orgs had for so long, was that when they became available, it'd be something different then the main orgs.  As it is, EPN is just Zion, and Cyph is just Machine.

I understand why you can't make the orgs seperate, and I greatly appreciate you answering our concerns in this matter.  But seriously...  what's the point of having the EPN and CYPH orgs if they're not even real orgs to begin with (in a game mechanic sense)?

You know, you also can't join Anome. Should Unlimit be removed from the story? You can't join Malphas or Ookami. Should those be removed? You couldn't join the Cypherites or EPN when they appeared and came on the surface -- shouldn't that have happend at all, because you couldn't join them?

These tags still mark factions as EPN/CYPH members. There are EPN and CYPH events taking place - since many of them are more or less private, I also mostly see only members of these factions in the events. But something with org locks should still be considered.
Their story revolves around Anome currently, but earlier and maybe later, it might revolve more around inter-organizational struggles or organization-specific/focused plots (both were once the main plot in the storyline -- nothing speaks against this to be continued).

So there is a point in them existing in the story, and there is point in the tags. I absolutely agree with the idea of making them separate organizations, from my point of view rather for org locks and story missions, for others for PvP or other gameplay purposes (RP is already available through the tags), but some of the quoted statements were clear overstatements.

(And just to cover that, I think the concept of global, common threats is absolutely fine in the story, as long as it's balanced with internal org conflicts; so far, it has been.)


Systemic Anomaly

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mitez wrote:

Balance is the word that keeps creeping up and i really do think that this game is far from balancing episodic content with real content (by that i mean things like luggables).

Ok we have these missions every update whereas we only get a good piece of good, fresh content once in a blue moon, or halloween moon as Pandoras box was last which came out about a month be4 haloween and luggables near this halloween will be coming out. 

Now seriously when people come back and post a thread asking what new content has come, people get embarassed to say its just episodic content as thats all what is ever new, people have to bring up the smallest additions and tweaks to make the game look as if its been in good develpment, which is all well and good to attract new people but at the end of the day youre just lying to yourself.

Now personally ive now put a stop to doing crits due to the similarity to that and normal missions.  My opinion is that the amount of crits must be reduced (not removed as too many people play for it).  I bet if Rarebit told the truth he would say a lot of his time is consumed doing crits.   It was only just feasible for him to work on other things when HcFrog was around but him now solo'ing it all its near impossible now for anything to get done. 

I feel that storyline is mainly for those who track it, those who would track it is long term players who have been able to keep up with it, now how the hell do you attract new players to stay when the only alternative to missions are crits, where they have no idea what the storyline is about, at least the quest system if nothing else entices new players to stay for a little longer. (im not a huge fan of the quest system but its an alternative to grinding so it is still very good and is very needed).

Now it maybe only me but i see more excitement when they mention luggables then more episodic missions.  Like i said i dont think episodic content should be removed as its the thing that makes MXO unique from other games and that you may not like but respect, but its time for the MXO team to learn they cannot cope with all the work and they have to comprimise somewhere and that somewhere is with episodic content. 

  

There's nothing to compromise, Dire. What can they do? Remove missions - Zero would have a fit, not to mention there'd be no other real way of delivering the monthly storyline developments effectively.  Remove Live Events - The boredome would encroach even more than it does now, regardless of whether new content is being developed or not. Plus people would be in uproar over the fact that they were promised Live Events, SOE takeover or not.

As for you saying that no-one new could understand where the storyline is anymore, it's just a bogus point. The archive missions were introduced for the very reason--alongside other, more rewarding, contenting reasons--to alleviate those worries and allow those who had missed the storyline in the past to repeat it just as we did when they were first released. Plus there's a wonderful little cinematic page in the loading area where they can catch up on the cinematic past of MxO.

Truly dude, you can't aim at specific parts of the game and say they have to be compromised, as the real problem is, due to the technicalities of MxO being somewhat foreign and at times downright confusing to some of the dev team, they have to stick to what they know best while working on new things. What they know best, be it for better or for worse, is episodic content, as you people keep calling it.

I prefer to call it the mission system.

Message edited by PBlade on 11/05/2006 03:52:28.





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PBlade wrote:

There's nothing to compromise, Dire. What can they do? Remove missions - Zero would have a fit, not to mention there'd be no other real way of delivering the monthly storyline developments effectively.  Remove Live Events - The boredome would encroach even more than it does now, regardless of whether new content is being developed or not. Plus people would be in uproar over the fact that they were promised Live Events, SOE takeover or not.

I emphasised on the part that i do not want to remove missions but merely cut down on them to allow them more time to create gameplay content.  Also as for live events, yes they should stay but how the *CENSORED* do i feel that im not a person whos allowed to stay on my PC till ridiculous times to catch them, there are many who have no choice but to miss out on these live events.  However like i said live event does a lot for the majority so im having to sacrifice there and just suck it up.   


As for you saying that no-one new could understand where the storyline is anymore, it's just a bogus point. The archive missions were introduced for the very reason--alongside other, more rewarding, contenting reasons--to alleviate those worries and allow those who had missed the storyline in the past to repeat it just as we did when they were first released. Plus there's a wonderful little cinematic page in the loading area where they can catch up on the cinematic past of MxO.

 Archive missions, do you not see that people cant just catch up using archive missions, the main reason is that they take very long to complete so a whole chapter could have gone by the time they even get through them all and attempt to catch up. Also i think cinematics do not help, i find they are good but only for an introduction to the missions that follow. 

Also someone else said it was like a TV show if you miss it you miss it, well then you've just written off MXO to die as soon as the long term players go. 

Truly dude, you can't aim at specific parts of the game and say they have to be compromised, as the real problem is, due to the technicalities of MxO being somewhat foreign and at times downright confusing to some of the dev team, they have to stick to what they know best while working on new things. What they know best, be it for better or for worse, is episodic content, as you people keep calling it.

I'd just like to quote "they have to stick to what they know best" in particular.  So are you telling me this game has nothing new to offer, the dev team do not dare to try new things so we should just get used to the same old same old and watch how they make the same thing again and again with a different spin on it. 

Again im just comprimising the part which gets the most attention as, bug fixes can never be comprimised as they are needed to making the game flow, now that leaves Content and episodic missions (or mission system w/e floats youre boat).  Now if we cut down on content there would be nothing left to give so it would be a stupid idea so the missions it is.  Im sure by just cutting each one down by 1 or 2 could keep the storyline going but also increase the speed of which content is realesed. 

As for new organisaitons, that idea should never even get mentoined as a possibility, if you think about it, youre precious live events would then be cut down per org, the thought put behind each missions would have to be cut down and the devs would have to rush doing them.  New orgs are just a bad idea, i barely see an advantage to having them, even PvP would be worse. 



Systemic Anomaly

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mitez wrote:
PBlade wrote:

There's nothing to compromise, Dire. What can they do? Remove missions - Zero would have a fit, not to mention there'd be no other real way of delivering the monthly storyline developments effectively.  Remove Live Events - The boredome would encroach even more than it does now, regardless of whether new content is being developed or not. Plus people would be in uproar over the fact that they were promised Live Events, SOE takeover or not.

I emphasised on the part that i do not want to remove missions but merely cut down on them to allow them more time to create gameplay content.  Also as for live events, yes they should stay but how the *CENSORED* do i feel that im not a person whos allowed to stay on my PC till ridiculous times to catch them, there are many who have no choice but to miss out on these live events.  However like i said live event does a lot for the majority so im having to sacrifice there and just suck it up.

And I can catch them? I'm in the same boat as you. I'm looking at this from the perspective of the majority, don't be so introverted.
 

As for you saying that no-one new could understand where the storyline is anymore, it's just a bogus point. The archive missions were introduced for the very reason--alongside other, more rewarding, contenting reasons--to alleviate those worries and allow those who had missed the storyline in the past to repeat it just as we did when they were first released. Plus there's a wonderful little cinematic page in the loading area where they can catch up on the cinematic past of MxO.

 Archive missions, do you not see that people cant just catch up using archive missions, the main reason is that they take very long to complete so a whole chapter could have gone by the time they even get through them all and attempt to catch up. Also i think cinematics do not help, i find they are good but only for an introduction to the missions that follow. 

Also someone else said it was like a TV show if you miss it you miss it, well then you've just written off MXO to die as soon as the long term players go. 

I find that something of a flawed judgement. If we take the TV show as our metaphore, and make the Archive missions video recordings you've taped so you can watch them at a later date, then the scenario pans out like: You miss a program, BUT YOU'VE TAPED IT. You miss a few of the programs, BUT YOU TAPE THEM. So you're watching through the re-runs when you realise you're going to miss the current episode if you don't stop watching the re-runs. So you stop and watch the current episode, safe in the knowledge that when you return to the re-runs at a later date, then the peices will slot together.

Truly dude, you can't aim at specific parts of the game and say they have to be compromised, as the real problem is, due to the technicalities of MxO being somewhat foreign and at times downright confusing to some of the dev team, they have to stick to what they know best while working on new things. What they know best, be it for better or for worse, is episodic content, as you people keep calling it.

I'd just like to quote "they have to stick to what they know best" in particular.  So are you telling me this game has nothing new to offer, the dev team do not dare to try new things so we should just get used to the same old same old and watch how they make the same thing again and again with a different spin on it. 

Not at all, i'm saying that they know how to do certain things and, as such, it's easier for them to continuously crank out episodic content WHILST WORKING ON OTHER THINGS. It might not be the most effective, efficient way of creating new content, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I look forward to luggables a great deal, but I look forward to the next chapter of the storyline just as much.

Again im just comprimising the part which gets the most attention as, bug fixes can never be comprimised as they are needed to making the game flow, now that leaves Content and episodic missions (or mission system w/e floats youre boat).  Now if we cut down on content there would be nothing left to give so it would be a stupid idea so the missions it is.  Im sure by just cutting each one down by 1 or 2 could keep the storyline going but also increase the speed of which content is realesed.

I think that's a fine idea, really, other than between the end of the last mission and the next patch there'd be something of a void to be filled in terms of the episodic content. There'd be no missions to feed Live Events, and for the last few weeks of a patch--remember, we're running on a 6 week schedule--would be filled with even more boredome than the current times inbetween are. Logistically, it just wouldn't work.

As for new organisaitons, that idea should never even get mentoined as a possibility, if you think about it, youre precious live events would then be cut down per org, the thought put behind each missions would have to be cut down and the devs would have to rush doing them.  New orgs are just a bad idea, i barely see an advantage to having them, even PvP would be worse.

Lol. "Your precious Live Events"



 
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