Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Chuui

MA abilities do lots of damage to me, please nerf them kthnx.

Hahah! How the worm has turned. Sorry my old hacker friend, I just can't help but laugh.

CrazyJun

HCFrog wrote:
ooooh good find. I just fixed this - duration is now 20 seconds, reuse timer 90 seconds, just like the Martial Arts and Firearms damage buffs.

Like ZaneZavin said ... Martial Arts Prowess and Firearms .. (sorry forgot the name) are incommensurable to Upgrade Attacks. Overclock is the Hacker dmg buff and can be compared with them.
Upgrade Attacks adds only Viral Accuracy and it is necessary for a hacker to have a chance to hit the opponent (I have a viral acc close to 200 and even miss against lot of peeps). It is ok to reduce the Viral Accuracy in Interlock, but please don't make the Hacker powerless out of Interlock.
If you want to change it -> 40sec viral acc boost and 60sec re-use timer.

peace,
CJ

timmydaman

Agreed 20 seconds is much too short for the is cost

**TekMon**

Try to fight in a crowded area, with a high latency. I know interlock is a no-no for hackers, but if you're grabbed in, with the new contested rollout and with the low chances to land a viral attack, because the lack of Viral Accuracy, and you find that you're forcing players into be MA for PvP. No variety.
Again we're going from balance to giving a class more strength than the others. Being that there's no other visible way to upgrade Viral Accuracy through the use of abilities, I think the timer is too short. As it was suggested, increase the reuse timer to be higher than duration. Like 60 seconds duration and 120 reuse time.

TekMon, The New Order

**Renesis13B**

My highest viral defense ive been able to get as a duelist was like 165. Having 200 viral accuracy and having no way for another class to get 200 viral defense is called overpowered. Its the same thing on live now with viral transmission so easy to get and viral deflection very costly to get.

CrazyJun wrote:

HCFrog wrote:
ooooh good find. I just fixed this - duration is now 20 seconds, reuse timer 90 seconds, just like the Martial Arts and Firearms damage buffs.

Like ZaneZavin said ... Martial Arts Prowess and Firearms .. (sorry forgot the name) are incommensurable to Upgrade Attacks. Overclock is the Hacker dmg buff and can be compared with them.
Upgrade Attacks adds only Viral Accuracy and it is necessary for a hacker to have a chance to hit the opponent (I have a viral acc close to 200 and even miss against lot of peeps). It is ok to reduce the Viral Accuracy in Interlock, but please don't make the Hacker powerless out of Interlock.
If you want to change it -> 40sec viral acc boost and 60sec re-use timer.

peace,
CJ

Avat

There is only one other ability like the Upgrade Attacks ability, Steady Aim. although they aren't quite alike and Steadt Aim does more then it says. also, there is no melee accuracy boost in any Ma tree's.

Steady Aim seems to take 30 IS every 8 seconds, but it's not listed in the description panel. And it also seems to have a re-use timer of 24 seconds, but is also not listed. As you can see it doesn't add to nearly as much accuracy as Upgrade attacks.

This leads to the conclusion that Upgrade attacks is only similar to another ability

However, the two are still not completely similar with the shorter timer, longer re-use timer, and addition to Ballistic damage. Lineupshot and Steady aim are stackable to a certain degree as well.

>revolt_

Hm. A new Upgrade Attacks with 20 sec duration seems appropriate in comparison to Line Up The Shot. The lesser re-use timer and DPS bonus of Line Up The Shot balances itself with its Concealment requirement I think.

>revolt_

**TekMon**

No, it's a short time. As I said, it become useless on interlock because the contested rolls. The downing of DPS of viral damage is good, but the lack of viral accuracy is fatal. Try it by yourself. MA is overpowered now against a Hacker. I want balance, not nerfing in any form.

TekMon, The New Order

**Renesis13B**

MA cant do much outside of interlock and Hackers arent an interlock class so I dont see the problem. You cant have the best of both.

**TekMon**

Renesis13B wrote:
MA cant do much outside of interlock and Hackers arent an interlock class so I dont see the problem. You cant have the best of both.

I agree. A class must not excel both at Interlock and Free Fire. However, Hacker is being adjusted at both ends.
The problem with reducing the time of Upgrade Attacks is that it's affecting not only IL. Have you tried it as a Hacker at the EP server? I do and I like the change overall, but landing a viral accuracy can't be boosted in any other way that I aware off.
If there's a way to penalize Viral Accuracy at Interlock, without reducing the times, in order to balance the class for interlock, I'm all for it. Otherwise, the changes are going for nerfing instead of the balance that you talk about.

TekMon, The New Order

HCFrog

The way I see it is similar to what Renesis said.

MA's (and to some extent duellists) are the kings of interlock. If you're a hacker and I'm an MA, my job is to hunt you down, pull you into interlock, and beat the living daylights out of you. Your job is to stay out of interlock and blast the crap out of me before I get you into my zone of destruction, or blast the crap out of me while your MA friend keeps me in interlock. That jerk.

Those are pretty broad strokes and of course people are always experimenting with hybrid loadouts, which is one of the things that I think is really cool about MxO's combat. Also, Hackers should probably be a little better off in interlock under CR2 than they were in the old system, since there are no longer any "I'll never hit you and you'll always hit me" situations. Add to that the non-zero sum rounds and the more profound effect that tactics now have (like going into grab mode if you want to boost your defense while still being able to attack and use special moves) and a smart hacker shouldn't be instantly pwned in interlock.

But hackers are definitely not intended to be balanced with MA in interlock.

HCFrog

oops I missed that last post Tekmon. Anyhow Upgrade Attacks was never supposed to be something you ran constantly. That was an error transferring data from our abilities spreadsheet to the actual game abilities.

**Renesis13B** · 03/23/2006 14:10:29

HCFogs post made the points I was trying to make but hes a LOT better with words than I am.

Message Edited by Renesis13B on 03-23-200605:10 PM

CrazyJun

HCFrog wrote:
oops I missed that last post Tekmon. Anyhow Upgrade Attacks was never supposed to be something you ran constantly. That was an error transferring data from our abilities spreadsheet to the actual game abilities.

I agree, that it should not be possible to use Upgrade Attacks constantly, but running around 70 secs without the viral accuracy bonus is the death of every hacker in PVP (and PVE against same lvl mobs).
I tested my hacker load against a SMG Spec without using my Upgrade Attacks and I hit him maybe 1 or 2 times before he break my shield and killed me (and my viral accuracy is good). Compared to the gunman, the hacker is only effectiv using the specials. The gunman is effectiv with free fire AND specials, the MA with punches AND specials, the hacker with specials (low accuracy, no chance to hit with specials, no dmg, no balance) The difference between using time and re-use time should be 20 or maybe 30 secs, but NOT 70 secs!!!

peace,
CJ

**Renesis13B** · 03/23/2006 14:16:48

Why not just use a hybrid build? Load some Viral hacks and patcher. If you get stuck in interlock you can heal yourself until you can roll out. Possibilities are there if you take the time to find them. If you stick with only 1 type of combat your not going to do very well.

Message Edited by Renesis13B on 03-23-200605:16 PM