The level of involvement that Morpheus' Legacy takes in EPN affairs has been an issue for quite some time. They've done very well working alongside Zion and the Machines. Now they throw it all away on trying to defend the reputations of known hostiles - terrorists. If Cryptos was so fake, then how blind is The Kid? We may have been told all along, but how long have you been told that your leader's charade is all a cry for vanity.

Michael steals glory from his Savior. This is no reverance. It's bloodshed. And this is what you want, Mr. Hill?

The level of involvement that Morpheus' Legacy takes in EPN affairs has been an issue for quite some time. They've done very well working alongside Zion and the Machines. Now they throw it all away on trying to defend the reputations of known hostiles - terrorists. If Cryptos was so fake, then how blind is The Kid? We may have been told all along, but how long have you been told that your leader's charade is all a cry for vanity.

Michael steals glory from his Savior. This is no reverance. It's bloodshed. And this is what you want, Mr. Hill?

No what I want is to find out what has happened to Morpheus. 

As I said in that meeting we would help in that matter, but that does not mean that we will help them in the future if it is not what we feel is right.

If the zion leadership has a problem with our actions, they can reprimand us as they see fit. 

We do not defend EPN's reputation they can stand on their own for good or for ill.

Skill wrote:

Yasamuu1 wrote:

So again i ask, where do you align yourself?

Like the others said. I follow Morpheus..
We made that choice a long time ago.

Even if that path sways from Zion? Zions council has made it clear they do not want anything to do with these Morpheus rumours and that they are that, just rumours.

 

Continuing to entertain the thought of Morpheus' survival until there is definite proof beyond a few choice words--which I did receive, by the way--before his death, and a few sporadic, inconclusive messages in recent months, is simply asanine. Zion has better things to do with its time and Operatives than chasing after Morpheus. Although he is becoming increasingly prominent, we have a larger threat to deal with.

Make your choice, or shift your priorities.

Like I said; I'm all but willing to believe he's alive, if conclusive evidence is placed before me. I can, myself, go out and find that conclusive evidence. If it means aiding EPN in some low-level anti-Cypherite work, then so be it. But we're talking about just that--low level work. What we did the other night was not an affront against the system, but the Cypherites, who appear to be out of everybody's favour at the minute. If searching for a fallen comrade like that makes me a terrorist, too, then this whole situation is out of both proportion and context.

But, as we've seen, the evidence we were looking for was not only inconclusive, but non-existant. I will search for reason to beleive in his return. But I re-iterate; broken relay messages and blank computer screens are not enough.

Zerotolerance wrote:

The level of involvement that Morpheus' Legacy takes in EPN affairs has been an issue for quite some time. They've done very well working alongside Zion and the Machines. Now they throw it all away on trying to defend the reputations of known hostiles - terrorists. If Cryptos was so fake, then how blind is The Kid? We may have been told all along, but how long have you been told that your leader's charade is all a cry for vanity.

Michael steals glory from his Savior. This is no reverance. It's bloodshed. And this is what you want, Mr. Hill?

No what I want is to find out what has happened to Morpheus. 

As I said in that meeting we would help in that matter, but that does not mean that we will help them in the future if it is not what we feel is right.

If the zion leadership has a problem with our actions, they can reprimand us as they see fit. 

We do not defend EPN's reputation they can stand on their own for good or for ill.

Outlaw wrote:

2. Some People in EPN doesn't like us being in on their meetings...and do not feel they get the same co-operation from Zion as their Liaisons give Zion, presumably because of the numerical boost Zion gives them ((There's flaws both OOC and IC))

In regards to the timing of this post, well it couldn't have tied in better. I uploaded this BEFORE tonights event, it ties in rather well though. I would like some kind of proof of Machines aiding Cypherites in any kind of Illegal activites; There's plenty of yourselves (and FA, amongst smaller Zion factions) aiding EPN factions in setting off and preserving code bombs.

Now whilst I'm sure you'd like FA to share some of the flack too, there's no direct proof of them trying to involve themselves in EPN's operations directly, only through word of mouth and sheer want of involvement.

By all means i do understand your commitments to Morpheus, but i can't help but wonder, why go so far for a deadman? Until sufficient proof surfaces that he is alive then there is no reason to believe he is. 

A far more realistic outlook would be to see that EPN are hell bent on causing disruption and as much trouble to the system the ones using Code Pulses, which are Illegal, and these Morpheus sightings happen in conjunction with the Code Pulses getting set off. It's no coinsidence, oh no, It's rather deliberate I'm sure. It seems too good to be true. It seems rather obvious, like i previously mentioned, that EPN would try to do their utmost to get Zions support for numerical reasons and to strain the truce. Manipulating the Morpheus situation, which is in many of Zions hearts, is the easiest way. That being said, the ones I've spoken with don't agree with Zion being given free reign at their Operations whilst EPN are kept out of Zion operations and kept in the dark/excluded.

Another point, Machines will gladly draw the line with Cypherites, however at no point was Cryptos remotely hostile towards Zion and until Veil reveals her true goals now then we have no reason not to improve relations with them. The Cypherites we fight alongside at Mara have done nothing to remove our trust in them, Veils strike against Zion was not under Cryptos' command and now that Veil is in charge of the Cypherites I think it's in Zions best interests that the Machines keep Veil under control too, to prevent the extreme methods she has been renound for from surfacing again.

   I think it is time I make some things clear for all, as I completely understand how our loyalties can be be misunderstood at times by outsiders. They are very clear to our members; we don't think twice about where we stand within our own faction.

1. Our relationship with EPN: It is absolutely true that we do often sympathize with the EPN organization; as many of our core beliefs are somewhat parallel to theirs. In that feeling of comraderie, we have assisted them in some of their operations and will continue to do so if we believe it is the right thing to do. But, while EPN wishes to tear apart the Matrix by brute force, we simply want all humans to have a choice; not just the limited numbers as the truce dictates. Also, the EPN leadership can be at times... not efficient in achieving their goals, and are not as seasoned as Niobe and Ghost are, whom we follow without question when asked and required. They have earned our respect. We have never even considered switching to EPN affiliation because of this.

2. Zion Command: We have never been reprimanded by Zion Command for assisting with some of EPN's operations, and we have often done so in concert with other Zion factions. Another aspect of Zion Command that no one seems to mention: Niobe and Ghost - don't believe for a second they would not drop everything to assist Morpheus in any way possible at great cost. Personal loyalties were what kept them alive during the long war, never forget that. The Zion Council whom our Commander Lock reports to has always and consistently supported Morpheus as well. He is a hero to our people, in life and in death! Not just to us in Morpheus' Legacy.

3. The Cypherites: They are anathema to us. We will always seek to hunt them down and destroy them whenever possible. And I'll promise this to any Machine Operative - truce be damned - if you assist them through your 'improved relations', I'll oppose you at every moment this is observed. Veil killing a crew, then popping an EMP on our Zion dock and now you want to get cozy with her??? I don't think so, not on my watch.

4. Morpheus: Our constant, long-term goal, our 'raison d'être' so to speak, is to get him back by whatever means possible. Enough said.

5. The Truce: ML truly does not want an all-out war with the Machines. We do respect the truce. We only oppose Machines who put us or Zion at risk in some way, in any circumstance. We are provoked or attacked more often than not in these instances.

   I hope this helps.

Madbent, Commander - ML

1. Our relationship with EPN:  as many of our core beliefs are somewhat parallel to theirs.

3. The Cypherites:  truce be damned

5. The Truce: We do respect the truce.

I hope this helps.

Madbent, Commander - ML

Once again, attack is the best form of defence whilst the initial question goes unanswered.  Yes, on occasion the machines have had to work alongside the Cypherite's towards a beneficial outcome.  Pointing fingers at us for these actions, as justification for ML's continual ties with EPN is merely a diversionary tactic.  Our means, although unsavoury at times, ultimately justify the intended end. 

We are not responsible for, answerable to, or working directly alongside Veil.  Her actions are based on her own justifications and beliefs, and do not directly correlate with those of the machines.  Gray's reticence when merely holding a conversation with Veil reflects our hesitancy and caution towards her, we are not united by beliefs or treaty.  There is none of the 'getting cozy' which you described.  Morpheus' Legacy however, continually champion the cause of EPN, and vehemently defend them when challenged on their illegal activities.  

Your affiliation clearly goes beyond merely 'helping out' where required, and something you wish to conceal.  Zion should be distancing themselves from EPN, as the group is not a true reflection on the beliefs of a true Zionist.  Instead, machinists who work towards preserving all forms of life are slain to protect the terrorist organization.  As you say, Madbent, they do attempt to use brute force to complete their objectives.  You also, quite rightly point out that this is not the most efficient manner in which to conduct various activities.  With that in mind what are we, and Zion to think when particular ML members leap to the defence of EPN, both with fist and tongue?

You cannot aim your weapons toward the same targets as EPN whilst simultaneously denying the ultimate alliance you share.  

Double post, apologies.

Madbent wrote:

1. Our relationship with EPN:  as many of our core beliefs are somewhat parallel to theirs.

3. The Cypherites:  truce be damned

5. The Truce: We do respect the truce.

I hope this helps.

Madbent, Commander - ML

Once again, attack is the best form of defence whilst the initial question goes unanswered.  Yes, on occasion the machines have had to work alongside the Cypherite's towards a beneficial outcome.  Pointing fingers at us for these actions, as justification for ML's continual ties with EPN is merely a diversionary tactic.  Our means, although unsavoury at times, ultimately justify the intended end. 

We are not responsible for, answerable to, or working directly alongside Veil.  Her actions are based on her own justifications and beliefs, and do not directly correlate with those of the machines.  Gray's reticence when merely holding a conversation with Veil reflects our hesitancy and caution towards her, we are not united by beliefs or treaty.  There is none of the 'getting cozy' which you described.  Morpheus' Legacy however, continually champion the cause of EPN, and vehemently defend them when challenged on their illegal activities.  

Your affiliation clearly goes beyond merely 'helping out' where required, and something you wish to conceal.  Zion should be distancing themselves from EPN, as the group is not a true reflection on the beliefs of a true Zionist.  Instead, machinists who work towards preserving all forms of life are slain to protect the terrorist organization.  As you say, Madbent, they do attempt to use brute force to complete their objectives.  You also, quite rightly point out that this is not the most efficient manner in which to conduct various activities.  With that in mind what are we, and Zion to think when particular ML members leap to the defence of EPN, both with fist and tongue?

You cannot aim your weapons toward the same targets as EPN whilst simultaneously denying the ultimate alliance you share.  

I'd appreciate a minimal level of respect in that you do not continue to quote my comments as above out of context.

And beyond this pointless debate, one thing is clear: Zion Command has never insisted that we cease our occasional assistance to EPN. If they did so, we would of course comply.

Another thing - our view of 'cozy' may be different from yours. Any association with the Cypherites - by any operative - from any organization - for any reason - is viewed as a threat that must be stopped.

noctivagus wrote:

Madbent wrote:

1. Our relationship with EPN:  as many of our core beliefs are somewhat parallel to theirs.

3. The Cypherites:  truce be damned

5. The Truce: We do respect the truce.

I hope this helps.

Madbent, Commander - ML

Once again, attack is the best form of defence whilst the initial question goes unanswered.  Yes, on occasion the machines have had to work alongside the Cypherite's towards a beneficial outcome.  Pointing fingers at us for these actions, as justification for ML's continual ties with EPN is merely a diversionary tactic.  Our means, although unsavoury at times, ultimately justify the intended end. 

We are not responsible for, answerable to, or working directly alongside Veil.  Her actions are based on her own justifications and beliefs, and do not directly correlate with those of the machines.  Gray's reticence when merely holding a conversation with Veil reflects our hesitancy and caution towards her, we are not united by beliefs or treaty.  There is none of the 'getting cozy' which you described.  Morpheus' Legacy however, continually champion the cause of EPN, and vehemently defend them when challenged on their illegal activities.  

Your affiliation clearly goes beyond merely 'helping out' where required, and something you wish to conceal.  Zion should be distancing themselves from EPN, as the group is not a true reflection on the beliefs of a true Zionist.  Instead, machinists who work towards preserving all forms of life are slain to protect the terrorist organization.  As you say, Madbent, they do attempt to use brute force to complete their objectives.  You also, quite rightly point out that this is not the most efficient manner in which to conduct various activities.  With that in mind what are we, and Zion to think when particular ML members leap to the defence of EPN, both with fist and tongue?

You cannot aim your weapons toward the same targets as EPN whilst simultaneously denying the ultimate alliance you share.  

I'd appreciate a minimal level of respect in that you do not continue to quote my comments as above out of context.

And beyond this pointless debate, one thing is clear: Zion Command has never insisted that we cease our occasional assistance to EPN. If they did so, we would of course comply.

Another thing - our view of 'cozy' may be different from yours. Any association with the Cypherites - by any operative - from any organization - for any reason - is viewed as a threat that must be stopped.

You view our concerns over one of our 'flagship' Zionist factions as 'pointless'?  I'm sorry you see it that way, but we are merely attempting to ascertain Morpheus' Legacy's status in the face of continual evidence of EPN-ties.  They are genuine, justified concerns.  Whether or not they are 'pointless' remains to be seen. 

I accept that your view of 'cozy' may differ from mine, but I can assure you that the machines will never be aligned with Veil, to a degree which warrants the use of the traditional meaning of the word.

I haven't taken your words out of context, just highlighted the ones which concerned me the most.  The fact that you are the one who said them, negates the dislike you have of the manner in which I presented them.  You said 'truce be damned' when faced with potential altercations in one section, then claimed that you do in fact respect the truce, in another.  The discrepancies were already present, I'm just the one who pointed them out.  I await the time where Zion Command are aware of these 'temporary' EPN unities, and enforce the sequestering of their activities.  Zion should not be involved, EPN do not have our best interests at heart.

((I'm told these are OOC brackets - Who knew?  Anyway this doesn't come down to disrespect or anything as harsh as that.  This is a IC discussion regarding the concern over the consequences of certain actions.  I will continue to pick at anything which I feel out of turn, so to speak.  The reason for this will be known only to those who know my character best in-game - I vehemently despise the EPN movement and what they stand for.  In PvP, Zion can go free as they do not take precedence.  Don't be offended by my words, I'm merely questioning your faction on your Zionist beliefs, which is part of what the game should be.  These are the fun discussions, discussions that immerse you into the world far more than PvP ever could.))

You view our concerns over one of our 'flagship' Zionist factions as 'pointless'?  I'm sorry you see it that way, but we are merely attempting to ascertain Morpheus' Legacy's status in the face of continual evidence of EPN-ties.  They are genuine, justified concerns.  Whether or not they are 'pointless' remains to be seen. 

I accept that your view of 'cozy' may differ from mine, but I can assure you that the machines will never be aligned with Veil, to a degree which warrants the use of the traditional meaning of the word.

I haven't taken your words out of context, just highlighted the ones which concerned me the most.  The fact that you are the one who said them, negates the dislike you have of the manner in which I presented them.  You said 'truce be damned' when faced with potential altercations in one section, then claimed that you do in fact respect the truce, in another.  The discrepancies were already present, I'm just the one who pointed them out.  I await the time where Zion Command are aware of these 'temporary' EPN unities, and enforce the sequestering of their activities.  Zion should not be involved, EPN do not have our best interests at heart.

((I'm told these are OOC brackets - Who knew?  Anyway this doesn't come down to disrespect or anything as harsh as that.  This is a IC discussion regarding the concern over the consequences of certain actions.  I will continue to pick at anything which I feel out of turn, so to speak.  The reason for this will be known only to those who know my character best in-game - I vehemently despise the EPN movement and what they stand for.  In PvP, Zion can go free as they do not take precedence.  Don't be offended by my words, I'm merely questioning your faction on your Zionist beliefs, which is part of what the game should be.  These are the fun discussions, discussions that immerse you into the world far more than PvP ever could.))

((OOC - I'm not offended at all, I'm responding as Madbent would. He's a bit of a single minded guy, focused on his ultimate goals and is wholly dedicated to his faction. He can on occasion be arrogant about his actions and priorities when speaking to outsiders as well.))

   I've explained myself as much as I can and am willing to. We do not view our actions as interfering with the truce; and will always view anyone associating with the Cypherites with abject suspicion and hostility. If Zion Command concretely orders us to shift our priorities, then we will do so.

   Our only exception to pure devotion to Zion Command is asking us to abandon Morpheus in any way; we simply would never do that. We do not see this ever occurring of course - most in Zion would never accept such instruction, and the council knows this.

Yasamuu1 wrote:

So again i ask, where do you align yourself?

Like the others said. I follow Morpheus..
We made that choice a long time ago.