KivoOnline wrote: Why don't you just make it so the target has to accept being scanned, like an emote? Make a pop up box that says Player1 would like to scan your for org based abilities, do you accept? Yes No. He can then accept it if it is a duel, thereby making it useful only for dueling and not for PvP because no one would accept during PvP.
Why don't you just make it so the target has to accept being scanned, like an emote? Make a pop up box that says Player1 would like to scan your for org based abilities, do you accept? Yes No.
He can then accept it if it is a duel, thereby making it useful only for dueling and not for PvP because no one would accept during PvP.
LiquidZ wrote: KivoOnline wrote: Why don't you just make it so the target has to accept being scanned, like an emote? Make a pop up box that says Player1 would like to scan your for org based abilities, do you accept? Yes No. He can then accept it if it is a duel, thereby making it useful only for dueling and not for PvP because no one would accept during PvP. This is the most correct way to do it, however people will spam a target with these requests is what Frog's concern is.Personally I do beleive that players that spam a target with requests should be treated the same as those that spam area chat.Frog's method is to prevent the problem before it can be a problem. Proactive 4tw!
HCFrog wrote:r3spon5e has a really good point: it is not within the design of this tool to use it for PvP. The tricky part really is how do you see if someone wants to be scanned by the tool, without using a dialog confirmation box (which as I said earlier is open to abuse). You can't check the player's PvP status because of Vector; the tool wouldn't work there and would clearly not meet the design intended. So, what I'm trying to get now are use conditions that make it harder to use in PvP. And the range issue seems like a fantastic idea. 10 second use time, range of 1 meter, user must be visible... those three things would combine to make it really hard to use in PvP, I would imagine, because even if you're in interlock you'd typically be moving more than 1 meter away within 10 seconds. It will have some sort of little animation on using the tool as well, so if someone walked up really close to you and played the little animation, you'd know what they were up to... that might be an ideal solution.
I think the point of a 1 meter range is to create an effect similar to what Bonopi suggested (target movement interrupts scan).
With a 1 meter range, 10 second casting time and a visible graphic while casting, it would be very difficult to scan anyone who didn't want to be scanned.
As Bonopi suggested, when the target moves (in this case less than 3 feet) it would interrupt the scan.
So the target would have ten seconds to move less than 3 feet to interrupt the scan.
However, the scan could still be used against an unwilling target in PvP who is rooted/stunned continuosly for more than 10 seconds (which is very possible to do in PvP).
That's why I suggest a high memory cost for loading it and, if possible, for a target with the Diagnostic ability loaded to conn "Diagnostic".
This way if someone still tried to use it in PvP, their loadout would make them very vulnerable and their conn would bely this vulnerability.
In the end, if it is at all useable in PvP, there is no doubt peeps will use it. So I think the best thing to do is minimize it's effectiveness (1m, ten seconds, or any movement interrupts the scan) and maximize it's danger (hi memory cost and "Diagnostic" conn).
Message Edited by r3spon5e on 05-05-2006 06:20 PM
I edit everything
Message Edited by r3spon5e on 05-05-2006 06:21 PM
Message Edited by r3spon5e on 05-05-2006 06:25 PM
I don't know of any tool that doesn't require an ability to use. So the point about overhead is lost on me. Seems it would take a lot more effort to create something completely new (tool that doesn't require an ability to use) than to add one more new ability to the awakened tree (something that has happened more than once since release, ie. mobius code and desperation).
So you don't need a whole new 'referee' tree.
If by overhead, you mean taking up more memory, well that is the whole point. The more memory it takes up the less peeps will be able to add it to their combat load and try to use it in PvP.
It is specifically intended to be used as a referee tool for tournaments and duels with the concern of how to prevent it's use in PvP and against unwilling subjects.
100k info for a tool is not a prohibitive cost but maybe that was a typo...
Accellerated decay and high cost won't prevent peeps from using it in PvP but will annoy those who wish to use it legitamately.
Message Edited by r3spon5e on 05-05-2006 06:56 PM
HCFrog wrote:r3spon5e has a really good point: it is not within the design of this tool to use it for PvP.The tricky part really is how do you see if someone wants to be scanned by the tool, without using a dialog confirmation box (which as I said earlier is open to abuse). You can't check the player's PvP status because of Vector; the tool wouldn't work there and would clearly not meet the design intended.So, what I'm trying to get now are use conditions that make it harder to use in PvP. And the range issue seems like a fantastic idea.10 second use time, range of 1 meter, user must be visible... those three things would combine to make it really hard to use in PvP, I would imagine, because even if you're in interlock you'd typically be moving more than 1 meter away within 10 seconds. It will have some sort of little animation on using the tool as well, so if someone walked up really close to you and played the little animation, you'd know what they were up to... that might be an ideal solution.
I'm a vectorite and if this tool is made too difficult to use in PVP, then why even go through the effort of even having a tool designed for favoratism toward the non hostile servers? Us vectorites get hosed out of a potentially useful tool. I don't see the point of specifically making this tool to be best used in a duel/tournament situation, because vector doesn't have as many duels or tournaments as the others servers. Why create something that an entire server won't use due to its inherently difficult to use design.
The fact that it takes 10 seconds to use is troublesome enough in a pvp situation because you'd have to be bold to stand still for 10 seconds on vector in the middle of nowhere, let alone in a pvp situation were people can easily attack you. Can we at least come to a comprimise with it's range? How about 8-10 meters? This at least give the entire server of Vector a chance(low chance, but still a chance) to use this tool in a pvp situation.
As far as not wanting to get scanned without a dialog box, I think a /scanon and a /scanoff command that dumps the results into the area system log should be enough to make the majority of people happy. /scanoff will block all incoming scans, while /scanon will allow anyone to scan you. Make it so that you have a 1 to 5 minute reuse timer for the /scanon command but no reuse timer for the /scanoff command, to eliminate or greatly reduce spam and still allow you to block incoming scans at the drop of a hat. In light of this, I also believe that everyone should be /scanon when they first jack in. What about making it so that only a certain person can scan you? Kind of like trying to send a /tell to someone. Just type: /scanon -=Dude=- and now, only dude can scan you till you close the scanning channel.
As far as the animation goes, I beleive Frog needs to watch more Star Trek for the animation. Also add a sort of ping looking effect. Kind of like what I have below.
x = target
o = person using the tool
x)) ) )o
Any comments?
Message Edited by cantido on 05-16-2006 06:12 AM
machete wrote:Candido, this tool was NEVER ment to be used in PVP. Hence the reason for the short range. It was ment for duels.
HCFrog wrote:This tool is not intended for PvP use. If you can use it in PvP, kudos to you, especially with the new use requirements I've set up on it: Range: 1 meter Use Time: 2 seconds User cannot be stealthed Target must be sitting The primary use of this tool is to make it easier to verify duels and tournaments, particularly with the Org Abilities that are coming out. Someone could have up to two passive Org abilities running on them, which can't be verified as cleared by the suicide/rez technique, and wouldn't be apparent from any sort of special effects. And even if it weren't for the new abilities, it's kind of annoying to have to use that technique to prove you don't have any buffs going, IMO. All of the servers can have as many tournaments and duels as they want to - in fact one of the biggest tournaments I've ever seen was the one organized on Vector a while back, I think by ManatikLuniak? Anyhow, bottom line: if you want a tool that's usable in PvP, then this is not the droid you are looking for.
