What is fair in love and PvP?

bricxx

OK, maybe Im really not interested in learning what is fair in love
(thats a bit off topic) but I want to know what everyone thinks is
'fair' in PvP.

First, my credentials:

1) I am Zion (somehow I feel I must apologize for that, but I won't)

2) I am an Arbalest (ditto)

3) I haven't yet PvPed alot, so I'm not that good at it.

The reason I haven't PvPed alot is because as an Arb, I know that if I
kill someone with stun followed by the usual hacker attacks, often I
will be greeted with claims of "Hackers suck" or "Stun is bogus".
Well, OK, I can understand how someone might feel that way (its a
balance issue), but my question is:

If it's not fair for a Hacker to use stun in PvP, or if its not fair
for Zionists to use their superior numbers, what types of PvP are fair?

Should an MA only attack an MA?

Should a Doctor be exempt from PvP attacks if he/she is just healing?

If you are fighting an MA, why isn't it 'fair' to roll out of interlock and/or use HJ to avoid it?

I know that there will be a school of thought that will say 'anything
goes' in PvP, and no rules should apply, and while I am partial to that
arguement, I would like to know the other side of the story.

So what are your rules for honorable PvP?

Message Edited by bricxx on 08-16-2005 11:12 PM
Message edited by bricxx on 08/16/2005 22:12:31.

**SableTheDarkWarrior**

You really must decide this for yourself. You have to figure out what kind of player you want to be because everybody has different opinions and playing styles. For any action you take or don't take, someone will have something to say about it. My personal style is kinda like anything goes. All I ask is, No exploiting, No whining, and don't trashtalk if you didn't do much to bring me down.

xerovirus

First Rule of PvP.. Pvp Doesnt Exist

Second Rule Of PvP never Talk about .........

Just Kidding.. SMILEY

These are my Standards.

TO KILL:

1. If someone is allready Fighting in PvP they are fair game Regardless of there Level.

2. If I come across a Player of a Faction that my faction is at war with then they die as well.

3. If I come across a Hardline and there are large group of lower levels Dancing Naked... yep you guessed it, there Target Practice.

4. If you are with in 2 lvls of me you are a fair game.

5. Dr's are exempt until they heal someone during PvP then they are part of the war and must die too.

6. Coders are Excluded from all attacks...( Exception: unless they fall into Rule #2)

7. Anyone That makes it on to my crybaby list is automaticaly [K-O-S]

8. Anyone Near My Archivist has to die.. Odds are they are up to no Good.

Not To Kill

1. anyone who Cons Grey to me.

2. People that Are Taking time from PvP to Power Level other Members of there Faction. (Exception: Faction wars)

3. Mission Teams

4. If I come across a player who is Clearly Not a PvP'er Regaurdless of LvL, I will not attack First.

Obviously I have More Reasons to kill People than to Not Kill someone but thats how a Hostile Server Goes.

All Rules Are Subject to Change at any given time with out Notice.

Message Edited by xerovirus on 08-17-2005 01:03 AM
Message edited by xerovirus on 08/17/2005 00:03:13.

**Garu**

For me personally there are many ways to be honorable in battle:

- Do NOT participate in a gank.

- Do NOT kill someone whose RSI has only just been restored (not revitalized).

- Do NOT attack someone who cons grey.

- Do NOT spam or smacktalk.

- Do NOT attack women or children.

- Do NOT be a sore looser.

- Do NOT be a bad winner.

Have I broken any of these rules? Yes. We all have. Was it done in malice? Never. PvP is meant to be fun. As long as you remember that above everything else, then your honor is maintained.

**ManicV**

I tend to avoid PvP whenever possible. It just isn't my thing. Though, I might change my mind when Zen Master is officially introduced and MA's have a chance against hackers.

On the topic of "fairness". I'd say that nearly everything in PvP is fair. If a player is using abilities at their disposal to attack another player, that is fair. If the victim is lvl16 and the attacker is lvl50, it is still fair because the lvl16 has their PvP flag turned on. The lvl16 player learns a valuable lesson about being on a hostile server. Watch your back. This is why the majority of people that hang out at Mara Central are either under lvl16, or over lvl30.

If a player, or group of players, uses an exploit that gives them a significant advantage in PvP (such as the "walk on air" bug), that is not fair. Walking on air is not an intended aspect of the game and using it should be grounds for a conduct violation. If a player wants to risk their account by exploiting the game, that's fine. But other players shouldn't have to take the same risk just so they can stand a chance in PvP.

Zion using their mass of numbers in PvP is fair. Every player has a choice of which organization to represent. The fact that Zion is the majority is nobody's fault, just the result of the players' choices. If the Machines or Merovingians complain that "everyone goes Zion", not only are they wrong (otherwise PvP would be moot), but they only have themselves to blame for not recruiting more players to their side.

Arbalests (regardless of organization) using their stuns, bottlenecks, and various hacks, is fair. These abilities are available to everyone in the game. It's not like it's some super secret ability tree that only a few people have access to. People that lay on the ground and complain about hackers being overpowered are wasting their time. MxO gives you the flexibility to change ability trees on a whim, provided you have the prerequisites to load those trees.

So I'd say, yeah, pretty much everything is fair in PvP, as long as players aren't exploiting the game.

Message Edited by manicvelocity on 08-17-2005 09:54 AM
Message edited by ManicV on 08/17/2005 07:54:27.

**Trex9**

Really, I think it's fair not to attack those who are 5 levels lower then you, unless they pose a threat. For example, if you are a level 50 MA without any VD loaded (bad idea), and a level 33 hacker starts trying to stun you, they're fair game.

If you are the hacker who just got your shield bust by the MA, it's definitely fair to roll out, run, hyperjump away, or whatever.

If a doctor is healing people, then they should be included in PvP. Why? negative condition sweeps can ruin a throat slitting throw, or mess up your great blind/staggered combo you may have your opponenet at in interlock. Having a foe healed while in close combat is very frustrating.

As for teaming up on one player, it is fair if you're trying to overcome a great level gap, or you're aiding someone who's being attacked. If you attack one guy from clan <PvP> who's standing in a circle of other members of his clan, don't call them Zergs when you're dead in half a second.

MammothTusk

on the other hand, it is fun to attack somebody who is 5 lvl higher
than u! sure, your *CENSORED* will get kicked...but, honestly, there is NO
fair PVP. its always that somebody is stronger than you. i`m a cuttroat
with 1100 pts damage atthe time, but thats all i can do! sure i`ll
leave someone with no half-or-more hp, but if i would fight MA - i`m
dead! so donnt think what others will say...unless u attack someone
really weak

NanoHaxiaI

If it ain't an exploit or bug then anything goes.

Voldrasil

Here's my PvP standards (the basics at least):

1. I set my priorities on s + Knife throwers because they're cowards and they severly annoy

me.

2. Don't attack people lower than 47 unless they take the first shot.

3. For me, ganking is just stooping too low. So obviously I don't do it.

4. Shields, boosters, pills, etc. All's fair in PvP and war....

**eyepopper**

The reason I haven't PvPed alot is
because as an Arb, I know that if I kill someone with stun followed by
the usual hacker attacks, often I will be greeted with claims of
"Hackers suck" or "Stun is bogus".

eyepopper
will be pleased to make antibiotics for anyone who's tired of standing
around stunned while attacked by four other players. these pills last
for a while and, taken before engaging the enemy, often neutralize many
of the attacks we all hate, e.g. MKT's or hacker's various
stun/rooted programs.

they drop as loot folks. quit decompiling them and use them.

**Foxxdie**

There are two things with pvp:

1. Everyone is going to whine no matter what you do, so who cares.

2. PvP is very fun in this game.

**Smike_**

Two categories of pvpers....well three I guess

1) Power gamers who copy somebody else's build...because it is cheap
and the most efficient in killing other players. The two cheap
builds are Knife Thrower and Arbalest. Knife Thrower uses the
same move to stun you and then uses analyze weakness so they can then
kill you in 2 more throws. Arbalests stun you and well..I think
we all know about arablests. Both must be boring to play (I would
assume) as they are so limited in their range of attacks. But
some people only care about killing you...bottom line. To me
these people remind me of the campers in a FPS who sit around the whole
game waiting for you to stumble onto them. Then when they kill
you they somehow think that they "pwned" you. A truly boring
existence these souls must lead.

2) Players who actually take the time to create their own builds...even
though they know that Knife Thrower is the most efficient build 1 on
1(meaning a level 50 can kill another level 50 the fastest with knife
thrower) in the
game. Yes, a strange concept to some people, but without us the
game would be very boring. Yes I realize that there are only so
many builds possible in this game, but please... show a little
originality. PVP should be about having fun...not making sure you
are the "correct build" because if you're not then someone might call
you a noob or you might get killed.

3) Doctors and upgrade masters....

So in reponse to your post...save arbalest for camping the construct bosses.

Message Edited by Smike_ on 08-19-2005 02:29 PM
Message edited by Smike_ on 08/19/2005 13:29:01.

bricxx

Smike, have you ever used an Arb in PvP? If so, you must be aware
of the necessity in that tree to cross it with other branches of
hacker. You dont get max VT and Max VT by just sticking to the
pure Arb/Bastilla tree. Also, it isnt wise to max out the
Arb/Bastilla part of the tree (depending on your level), as you can use
that memory that is wasted on things like logic cannon (which takes too
long to be useful in PvP) on loading parts of early parts of the
operative tree (which will help a hacker get a few additional seconds
of life in interlock).

So what does all this mean? It means that I do use my own, custom
loadouts that I have developed by testing with willing faction members,
NPCs and in PvP. This also increases the number of attacks in
one's memory.

Just wanted to clear up that misconception for ya, I do use my own build, which was not copied from anyone.

And finally, you said I should save Arb for camping the construct
bosses. Well, I do that, and that often gets me involved in
PvP. But you said:

"So in reponse to your post...save arbalest for camping the construct bosses."

And my earlier post asked what is fair in PvP, so does your quote above
mean that you believe that using Arb in PvP is not fair? Just
want to make sure I am not misunderstanding you.

Thanks!

**eyepopper**

Smike_ wrote:
The two cheap
builds are Knife Thrower and Arbalest. Knife Thrower uses the
same move to stun you and then uses analyze weakness so they can then
kill you in 2 more throws. Arbalests stun you and well..I think
we all know about arablests. Both must be boring to play (I would
assume) as they are so limited in their range of attacks.

i hate knife throwers cuz i never leveled it.

let me make my point. i consistently interlock with players when im an
arbalest after i hit em with despoiler. or i stun, blind and root them
and then type /laugh. sure there are those who stun and then hit with
the free fire viruses. this may indeed be boring to smike, but after a
good thumping by a MA, i like ballista's abilities so i can even the
score.

in answer to the initial question, EVERYTHING is fair in pvp.
sneak-rezzing, unflagged rezzing, hacker, simulacra, everything. ive
been called an exploiter for even mentioning these these things are
fair (though i have never sneak rezzed... those other things....
well...). but everybody can do 'em. furthermore, i pvp as a machine.
and i get ganked as a machine by mobs up to 15. i guarantee if i jack
in right now, go to mara and throw up the flag, i WILL be pulverized by
all of the zion 50's present. guaranteed. so if i gotta cut corners to
get the cq, im gonna do it. boring? heck no.

btw, i kinda like to get ganked. the sooner the better, preferably in
the first five minutes. sometimes when i jack in to farm or doe, i take
a quickl ganking to get it out of my system. does a body good. it gives
me the opportunity to say clever things when i know everyone is
listening.

luqutis

I see red i kill.