Staggering Throw & MKT

**Roukan**

Garu wrote:

Mave wrote:
GoDGiVeR wrote:
Crippling throw has a larger root timer than reuse timer. The only "equivalent" to that in the Ops tree would be Surpressing Fire, but that ability has double the execution timer, double the IS cost and half the range. Though, I'd already be pleased with the "breaks on damage" on Crippling.

Doesn't Crippling already break on damage?

I'd prefer to see Paralyzing Throw be a root that doesn't break with damage since it's a level 47 ability. I think....I need to double check...

Honestly, I don't use Crippling or Paralyzing Throw so I don't honestly know. But I'm pretty sure neither break with damage. Would someone check? I'm old so my memory ain't so great.

I lost a tournament because Crippling breaks.

**Mave**

Zerotolerance wrote:

Mave wrote:
Arcanoloth wrote:
A stackable root that doesn't break on damage seems a bit powerful to me, maybe change it to "Chance to break".

I know gunman have at least 2 of these. Both in the SMG tree and both pretty low tier abilities.
The Ballistic roots can't be compared to the Thrown roots, sorry.

And the Rifleman tree has a powerless chance on one, a stun chance on another, and finally one root that can break with damage.

You're right. Ballistic Roots can't be compared. Why? Because two LOW TIER abilities in SMG don't break with damage. One with 12 seconds, one with 8.

MKT has two roots, Crippling Throw and Paralyzing Throw, with a 12sec and 8 sec timer respectively. Both break with damage.

**Pylat**

And you get better range, accuracy, lower IS costs and shorter reuse timers, and one of them can be used in IL.

**Mave** · 10/04/2007 08:57:53

Arcanoloth wrote:

And you get better range, accuracy, lower IS costs and shorter reuse timers, and one of them can be used in IL.

Better Range: True. I'll give you that. But in exchange for a lower range, SMG roots have a cone effect, meaning you can hit multiple targets with one ability.

Accuracy: Blue Tactics makes mine hit pretty often.

Lower IS: I'll take your word for it since I'm at work, but I'll double check it later.

Shorter Reuse Timers: True. Who needs a short reuse timer when you're guaranteed a whole 8 or 12 second root that WON'T break with damage. Considering they're low tier abilities, that's OP.

One of them can be used in IL: Because we all know that rooting your opponent with an ability that breaks damage in IL is very effective.

**Denary**

Since SMG relies on the whole 2.5 second SMG abilities it'd be a little stupid to have a root ability that breaks on damage.

The difference between the SMG tree and the MKT is tree is this, SMG high damage out of IL attacks require states, which require damage to be dealt through out of IL normal attacks, MKT can just sneak behind and use ST at any time, thats the difference thats why SMG roots don't break.

**Zerotolerance**

Mave wrote:

Zerotolerance wrote:
Mave wrote:
Arcanoloth wrote:
A stackable root that doesn't break on damage seems a bit powerful to me, maybe change it to "Chance to break".

I know gunman have at least 2 of these. Both in the SMG tree and both pretty low tier abilities.
The Ballistic roots can't be compared to the Thrown roots, sorry.

And the Rifleman tree has a powerless chance on one, a stun chance on another, and finally one root that can break with damage.

You're right. Ballistic Roots can't be compared. Why? Because two LOW TIER abilities in SMG don't break with damage. One with 12 seconds, one with 8.

MKT has two roots, Crippling Throw and Paralyzing Throw, with a 12sec and 8 sec timer respectively. Both break with damage.

I know plenty of effective MKT's that don't ever worry about root-breaking. They get their CQ's just fine.

And I've used those SMG abilities, but they are hardly ever effective for PVP. The only truly effective SMG abilities, imo, are Direct Fire, Sliding Volley, and Full Auto Redux. Timers, percentage-for-success, and range on the root abilities make them horrible to rely on. I only really consider them effective if you've got a zerg on your side.

I'm actually quite alright with the way MKT is set up. Yes, it can be a very easy load to use. But then so is Sniper and Ballista, if used correctly. Different abilities are loaded for different styles of play. Just as different abilities are loaded as ways to beat those styles. There's always going to be a counter.

**Mave** · 10/04/2007 14:15:22

Zerotolerance wrote:

Mave wrote:
Zerotolerance wrote:
Mave wrote:
Arcanoloth wrote:
A stackable root that doesn't break on damage seems a bit powerful to me, maybe change it to "Chance to break".

I know gunman have at least 2 of these. Both in the SMG tree and both pretty low tier abilities.
The Ballistic roots can't be compared to the Thrown roots, sorry.

And the Rifleman tree has a powerless chance on one, a stun chance on another, and finally one root that can break with damage.

You're right. Ballistic Roots can't be compared. Why? Because two LOW TIER abilities in SMG don't break with damage. One with 12 seconds, one with 8.

MKT has two roots, Crippling Throw and Paralyzing Throw, with a 12sec and 8 sec timer respectively. Both break with damage.
I know plenty of effective MKT's that don't ever worry about root-breaking. They get their CQ's just fine.

And I've used those SMG abilities, but they are hardly ever effective for PVP. The only truly effective SMG abilities, imo, are Direct Fire, Sliding Volley, and Full Auto Redux. Timers, percentage-for-success, and range on the root abilities make them horrible to rely on. I only really consider them effective if you've got a zerg on your side.

I'm actually quite alright with the way MKT is set up. Yes, it can be a very easy load to use. But then so is Sniper and Ballista, if used correctly. Different abilities are loaded for different styles of play. Just as different abilities are loaded as ways to beat those styles. There's always going to be a counter.

Oh I have no problems with them either. I was one of the first people to use MKT back when CR2 first came out and everyone was running around as a Rifleman. I managed just fine since I got practice for months. I was simply commenting on Arcanloth's comment about a stackable root that doesn't break with damage. That's all.

And as for the abilities' effectiveness, I use them and they work for me just fine. Granted, I load sniper so I get to sneak around and pop the ability from Escape And Evasion, with or without a Zerg. Especially since I can root multiple targets. Works especially great when you have people huddled around a Healer.