How did the Machines...

Dilabor

I'm a virtual Matrix newbie; my knowledge is limited to the three movies and I've only seen them a couple of times.

My question is...how did the Machines find Zion? They didn't get
the coords from Morpheus, right? They rescued him before
that.

yourbuddy

they were access codes to get into zion. They found it cause they
dug down. And new it was there, cause they have done it before.

**ZippyTheSquirrel**

Six times, to be precise. In fact, I think the Machines built Zion.

Dilabor

I see. Thanks for the answers.

**Stack**

The only information they were trying to get from Morpheus was how to access the Zion Mainframe, which would've allowed the Machines to directly access all of Zion's systems and effectively wipe them out with no resistance.

**FrozenFyre**

Hmm, that's an interesting question, yes there were several versions of
Zion, but who'se to say that they were all built in the same place. My
guess would be that they had found it, but were unable to create a
force big enough to assault Zion fully... or at least decided not to
untill the program of the One was fulfilled.

minuend

They found Zion because the One before Neo had species preservation instead of self preservation as their emotional goal, so they picked the wrong door.

Zion has always been created and populated by Machine will.

Uyanik

machines are very efficient in destroying Zion after they did 6 times in earlier matrix versions. So they precisely know where to find the last city of humans being.

I doubt that Zion has been built in different places in the earlier matrix versions - as 6 women and 16 men (something like that) are taken out of the Matrix after the One´s choice as the architect explains.

Message Edited by Uyanik on 05-15-2006 10:20 AM
Message edited by Uyanik on 05/15/2006 09:20:08.

**Fractor**

Yeah we know the one before neo did that because morpheus said there was someone who could bend the rules of the matrix and that he released the first of them but neo took the other path.

SEETHER

I would say that Zion was built by the machines or at the very least with their help. Hovercrafts, Machines, and ll that would be needed to construct, maintain, and rebuild Zion would be way too much for a few hundred people to do alone.

SEETHER

**imax**

the machines didnt want the accesscodes to the zion mainframe, Smith did, Smith hated humanity and wanted to wipe them out. The machines as a whole dont hate anything because as a whole they are emotionless, they only want to keep zion in check in order to prolong thier current way of life which of course is useing the matrix as a "prison" (as some call it) for humans in order to use thier bio-electricty for power.

Smith had is own goals, he was one of the few exceptions to all machine programs, he developed feelings. Just to bad he developed the bad ones. Hate and jealousy.

**Illyria22**

But from what we see in the PB arc, AI's do have emotions, but (most) agents are the exception to the rule. Remember the document found on the Box 3 npc's, calling agents "emotionless freaks"? That implies this isn't a normal state for most programs. There are also the records found on the angels from Box 4, in which they say that the only command given to them was to love the humans. So it's safe to say that most programs either have emotions, or can develop them at some point.

Regarding Smith wanting the access codes to Zion's mainframe -- and his desire to be free of the situation he was in during the first movie -- it seems that he, as an agent, didn't know about the cycles of the Matrix and the destruction of Zion. Why work so hard to get the codes that would lead to Zion's destruction, when it was just going to be rebuilt again? He acted as if he thought that when Zion was destroyed, it would be for good. The Merovingian knew about the cycles, but he was an exile -- no longer part of the system -- plus he was an information trafficker.

I'm guessing that when the Matrix was reset at the end of each cycle, the relevant information was erased from the memories of at least some of the programs attached to the system (the agents being the most obvious ones).

Illyria

Gattsuru

That's a valid point, Illyria, but Smith may very well have had other reasons.

He and his fellow agents could even have been specifically designed
to attempt to destroy Zion without the One existing. The One was,
after all, only a method of control, and not an efficient one, at that
- each incarnation required a complete destruction and rebuild of a
city, reinitialization of the Matrix, and while the redpill'd batteries
were already valueless, the cost of destroying them couldn't have been
cheap. The Architect's speech doesn't suggest that he finds the Oracle's solution to be the most elegant, that's for sure. A quarter of a million Sentinels sure doesn't sound like petty
cash, and I'm sure they'd be quite happy for anything that would increase efficiency.

Or there could be other reasons. I mean, we know that even during
the first film and possibly before, he was acting outside of the
normals of other Agents - the scene where he removed his earpiece and
ranted against humanity was a decent clue that something was a little
'loose' in there. He may have already been attempting to dislodge the
Machine's system even before he was overwritten by Neo.

Machines do have emotions, though, almost as a part of the very backdrop of the Matrix. The B1-66-ER comic points out a sense of self-preservation was inherent to many machines quite early in development. The Oracle, while manipulative, certainly does seem content with a job well done in some cases, or unhappy when bad things (like, say, a loose killcode for her shell) happen. The program couple and their 'child' in the second movie (and the end of the third) seem to show a good deal of emotion, nearly human-like. The Dues Ex Machina, at the end of the third movie, shows a good bit of anger tinged with fear.

**Erace**

i didnt bother to read to long posts so i dont know if this has been answered or not

people kept saying there were several "versions" of zion

just like there were several versions of the matrix

could zion be another simulation?

a matrix inside a matrix?

thoughts...

**Illyria22**

There has been speculation on this...it is a possibility, and it would be the ultimate form of control.

Illyria