CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!

**Lazaros**

the difference is w/o ,multi interlock you no longer have 15 other fools hopin into interlock and it takin 5 minutes btween rolls. if you are dumb enough to hop into a group of reds you will no go down quite quickly as it should be.

**Tytanya_MxO** · 03/31/2006 03:25:39

TBH for all sorts of reasons not zerg releated I would love a more severe DE a full 5 minutes where you must not return to the battle would actually make properly resolvable conflicts etc.

For the Zerg atm split EPN away as a pvpable group...you can still give them the same missions as zion but the seperation will mean Zion needs to exert more care in pvp situations (and inevitably will generate friction between one another).

Split the cyphs in the same way BUT a new redpill should be awoken by Zion and then under the terms of the truce automatically be emplyed by the machines to keep order (at a later date being able to opt into other orgs).

There is a good excuse for both Merovs and machines to have area's of the matrix where the exile gangs (for merovs) and security/agents (for machines) will actually fight at their side....the level and density of these could be adjusted to the org distribution of the server.

Message Edited by Tytanya_MxO on 03-31-200603:25 AM

**darkhaze**

i just dont agree with having to deal with some crazy de for dying. especially on a hostile server where you dont want to have to stand around and wait for 5 min before you can play the game. i think maybe a loss of experience would be better. eventually leading to loosing a level if you dont keep up with missions. this would help to make people a little more careful in pvp because you dont want to loose your exp and also give the higher levels more of a reason to mission with the lowbies.

cryshal

...or you could quit distracting yourselves with silly ideas about orgs and death effect and just relax the gunfire, our ballistic defense/dodge ranged/magic wand/wtfever is clearly bugged.

go to creston without using mkt/assassin and youll see the best and quickest example. haha you wont even make it halfway. this is the proper solution to the problem cuz it helps the zerg problem and hm lots of other problems too, such as mish grinding, failures of latency, and item decay.

**9mmfu**

Well the honest question is... Has the zerg become;

More effective?

Effectively the same?

Less effective?

Honest answers please.

Ghostwise

The Zerg could suck as individuals on any server. Numbers = Zerg. The more there are, the more efficient the Zerg. :smileyindifferent::smileyvery-happy:

**MxO-Insertion**

heh, Zergs seem pretty balanced in my opinion.

<--- Merv Assassin on Vector...

cryshal

the zerg has clearly become a little more effective, mostly depending on your class. since we get hit alot more now, this means, more frequent interruptions of concentration for the hackers. other classes have similar problems.. they have to change their gameplan sometimes cuz since we get hit more, that means, possible to get hit with stun more easily, or other debuffs. when i use gunner it seems theres always a debuff with my name on it haha. just as there is for others, when i have hacker loaded. you see ppl prevented from casting a buff/debuff, entering sneak, tying their shoes, whatever. things are just different now =D

**Davo**

talent, strategy, and a few skilled teamates with good vocal communication can still conquer the zerg

**Hanzyl and Gretyl**

Yes it depends on circumstances but the constant attacks force alot of Concentration checks and when your trying to use a hack or other ability with a long use timer it makes a big difference. You can get interupted multiple times and if you do you may as well run or call it quits. Also even though the lowbies don't do any damage they can still hit you for status affects which is what Interlock is about these days. Once i get a status effect on me in interlock if it's the right one or one my enemy can take advantage of there goes half my health or my face ot the pavement.

RockyB

With team work it's acheivable to handle a force around twice your
size. Much beyond that, and you're simply dead. The worst thing is
multiple damage types. You can't defend against a mass of MKTs AND a
mass of Kung Fu Gms at the same time.

**Spadz**

NoRepro wrote:

Well the honest question is... Has the zerg become;

More effective?

Effectively the same?

Less effective?

Honest answers please.

The honest answer I think is that the Zerg is more effective.

Why? Well, with CR2 interlock is faster but because of resistances and active buffs that you can use in combat, it takes longer to kill an opponent. This means in essence more time for the Zerg to roll on your position and put more people around you to shoot/knife/kick you while you're in interlock. We all know that states are the key to launching and landing the big damage moves and now there is more time for more Zerg-la-dytes to group on you and inflict states.

Add to this contested roll outs and you have a more effective Zerg.

Now, all that said.. I think CR2 is a million times better than the old way, but the Zerg is more effective.

How would we fix this? I'm not sure.. longer DE penalties? More toughness for low population orgs to balance things out? Meh.. who knows such things? Only the Oracle.

**Tytanya_MxO**

Spadz wrote:

The honest answer I think is that the Zerg is more effective.

Why? Well, with CR2 interlock is faster but because of resistances and active buffs that you can use in combat, it takes longer to kill an opponent. This means in essence more time for the Zerg to roll on your position and put more people around you to shoot/knife/kick you while you're in interlock. We all know that states are the key to launching and landing the big damage moves and now there is more time for more Zerg-la-dytes to group on you and inflict states.

Add to this contested roll outs and you have a more effective Zerg.

Now, all that said.. I think CR2 is a million times better than the old way, but the Zerg is more effective.

How would we fix this? I'm not sure.. longer DE penalties? More toughness for low population orgs to balance things out? Meh.. who knows such things? Only the Oracle.

These are my thoughts exactly, many of my CR2 fears proved to be unfounded but this one was very definitely realised. It is exacerbated by the apparent ease free fire Melee fighters have to be able to induce debuff states on the person caught in IL. I hear what other people say about being able to fight a larger force but quite honestly this is purely ignorance to the new system and very soon that will not exist as a tool. The actual aggressiveness of Vector has decreased as there is a more ready resignation of the futility of certain battles...the only positive as regards that situation is that the current population of Vector is probably more balanced that at any other time in its life.

The only real suggestion I would propose is that the evade combat stat gets a buff proportionate to the relative number of different opponents inflicting damage (ie twice as many people hitting A in IL offers an 10% boost to his evade), this way the handicapped force has a better change to retreat and rethink a strategy. And or once in IL the two combatants can take damage from outside but certain states ie stun, root etc can only come from within.

**Hanzyl and Gretyl**

good points Spadz. I never really covered the interlock stuff.

**Shinryu**

As someone who's not even on Vector, I'll just jump in here quickly. SMILEY

I was worried about the ability of those outside of combat to inflict debuff states when free fire was first discussed in regards to CR2. This really is an important issue if you're not on a hostile server, and I can see it easily being an even bigger issue on a hostule. My suggested solution to this? Make Multi-Fighting a levellable ability that reduces the ability of outer attackers to cause debuffs; the higher the level, the harder it is for someone outside of IL to cause a debuff state.

Sure this won't solve all of the problems associated with the Zerg (or even just multi person combat post CR), but it's a good place to start.