"We haven't been inclined to share that sort of information"O_O
I'm pretty sure that was just Carlyne's response to someone asking him if he knew where Halborn was in the real. In other words, he hasn't been inclined to share his real world location with Halborn, and Halborn hasn't been inclined to share his with Carlyne.
Neoteny wrote:
Vinia wrote:Oh and I fixed point B.No, we'd take peace just about any day. The Machines won't even discuss it unless we agree to ludicrous terms and conditions. We could talk any time.
Oh and I fixed point B.
The only reason the Machines agreed to peace in the first place was because that's what Neo asked for, and he was the only one who could stop Smith from taking over the Matrix. I don't think they will agree to peace again unless they need something else which only Zion can provide, and that may never happen.
How did a Coppertop defeat the head of the Agents?
Panderai wrote:How did a Coppertop defeat the head of the Agents?Wha? You mean Halborn toasting Agent Gray?
No, I was talking about Neo defeating Smith in The Matrix.
And don't say "Oh but he was The One" It's not past tense, and he wasn't until the bullets piled into his chest. Before that, he killed him (well his host) so meheh..
One thing is for sure, He owes us now
Zudrag wrote:Panderai wrote:How did a Coppertop defeat the head of the Agents?Wha? You mean Halborn toasting Agent Gray?No, I was talking about Neo defeating Smith in The Matrix. And don't say "Oh but he was The One" It's not past tense, and he wasn't until the bullets piled into his chest. Before that, he killed him (well his host) so meheh..
Its simply a matter of outsmarting one or being quick on the draw.
Neo only defeats Smith by outsmarting him and jumping at the right time. While he does put up a fight it was apparent he was on the short end of the stick untill the subway train came. Same with on the rooftop. Trinity gets behind one while its focused on Neo.
aracher wrote:One thing is for sure, He owes us nowDon't expect any favors from egotistical supermen.
... but you've said before that you'd prefer the fraction of Humanity in Zion over the rest of Humanity to survive if it came down to it so I didn't really expect anything else from you.
Vinia wrote:... but you've said before that you'd prefer the fraction of Humanity in Zion over the rest of Humanity to survive if it came down to it so I didn't really expect anything else from you.Neoteny is correct. About the Intruders as well as about Survival.
Oh and I agree that with the intruders gone the Machines will undoubtedly focus on New Zion and Old Zion now that EPN have set up shop there unless both sides can agree to a truce once again. As for survival, Zion has alway focused on survival from the Machines, if somehow the Machines were destroyed not only will that be the death of an entire race (including Machines who don't have anything to do with fighting), most of the Humans in the pods would die and, unless saved somewhere, a lot of sentient programs would be terminated. Thats a lot of death to allow a small number of Humans to survive, but how long will they survive? All of that focus on hating the Machines where would that go? Personally I don't think Zion as it is right now would survive. I'd say civil conflicts would break out forcing smaller groups of people to leave to try to survive in a barely hospitable landscape. It's Human nature to try to destroy itself after all.
I think that Zion needs the Machines as something to focus on, The bluepills need the Machines to live and the Machines need bluepills to live and possibly even Zion to focus their attentions on, without it or true peace between races they are all doomed. A true symbiotic relationship.
GypsyJuggler wrote:Vinia wrote:... but you've said before that you'd prefer the fraction of Humanity in Zion over the rest of Humanity to survive if it came down to it so I didn't really expect anything else from you.Neoteny is correct. About the Intruders as well as about Survival. Oh and I agree that with the intruders gone the Machines will undoubtedly focus on New Zion and Old Zion now that EPN have set up shop there unless both sides can agree to a truce once again. As for survival, Zion has alway focused on survival from the Machines, if somehow the Machines were destroyed not only will that be the death of an entire race (including Machines who don't have anything to do with fighting), most of the Humans in the pods would die and, unless saved somewhere, a lot of sentient programs would be terminated. Thats a lot of death to allow a small number of Humans to survive, but how long will they survive? All of that focus on hating the Machines where would that go? Personally I don't think Zion as it is right now would survive. I'd say civil conflicts would break out forcing smaller groups of people to leave to try to survive in a barely hospitable landscape. It's Human nature to try to destroy itself after all.I think that Zion needs the Machines as something to focus on, The bluepills need the Machines to live and the Machines need bluepills to live and possibly even Zion to focus their attentions on, without it or true peace between races they are all doomed. A true symbiotic relationship.
Essentially, in saying that we need to "focus on" the Machines, you're attempting to validate man-machine conflict, when, really, there never should have been one. And if conflict among men is the natural order of things, then we are only delaying the inevitable with conflict between men and machines, are we not? Mankind lived as a single sentient race for many, many years on the planet Earth before the advent of AI. Simply because the landscape has changed does not mean that we could not do it again. Wheat has been grown in the past, before the Machines destroyed it - crops could be raised, it is possible that we could find similar sources of DNA and clone livestock and other necessary resources.
At the simplest level, mankind's existence would be benefitted by the absence of the Machine tyranny.
Certainly there was war among men before AI. But we continued to live until AI destroyed us. In millions of years, man failed to eviscerate its own. In the scope of perhaps a century or two, man's creation terminated man. History is on my side when I say that we would be safer without the machines. As you said, conflict is the natural order. Extinction, however, is not.
The sheer perseverence of Zion through the years of the destructive oppression of the Machines would seem a gleaming example to me of not only Zion's determination to survive, but our capability to survive in the most extreme of circumstances. You cannot deny that we have lived as rats backed into a corner every time the city was rebuilt and antagonized. We have lived without priveledge for centuries over and over. Without the machines, we could claim what we wished. Truly, we have survived. Truly we are surviving. Without the machines, we could move on from survival to life.
As I said before, grain, livestock, industry, expansion, education, science, and more - these are all things we could bring about without the machines looming over us threatening destruction around every bend. How long would mankind survive without the machines?
An eternity.
