I agree with Fayit. PvP can be fun, and it has it's time and place. However:
Basically... PvP has the potential (like so much in this game) to be great. And like most things, it is spoiled for everyone by a few 10-year-old (regardless of real age) brats.
Show a little consideration please. It really isn't that hard.
Echosnare wrote:I will point out that you don't have to go to mara. There are other neighbourhoods that are in fact safer in richland.
You know, guys, there were areas specifically created for this kind of stuff. They were called CONSTRUCTS. Remember, way back in beta, when people were crying and wailing for better PvP options? "/Duel is lame! Give us real PvP!!!" Well, the devs came up with a solution: The Archive, a massive battleground based on the Machine City, Zero One, before humanity scorched the sky. Factions would buy an archive book, jack in at an org-specific location, then meet within the city for a little PvP throwdown. The idea was met with overwhelming approval; in fact, people seemed to love it so much that the devs added more special PvP constructs, and even instituted level caps and org safezones, in order to eliminate the one big problem plaguing the PvP concept - ganking of lower-level players. Pretty sweet, I'd say, and a worthy effort on the devs' part to meet the demands of the players at that time. So, what have we done since then? All but forgotten they even exist and taken our chestbeating and ego-boosting to the streets of the Mega City, mainly near high-traffic areas like Mara Central, causing the same kind of lag we'll go to great lengths to complain about on the forums when it occurs in other areas.
Let's forget for a moment that PvP, as it stands, serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever other than to gain CQ points, which, at the moment, mean nothing at all. Let's also forget that in-game PvP on a non-hostile world was supposed to fall in place during times when the storyline called for it...you know, times when it would actually make sense to wage battle against organizations you were supposed to be under a truce with, but, as it has turned out, PvP seems to be constantly available now in the same non-hostile world. Yeah...so that whole "go to a non-hostile server" excuse doesn't apply anymore. Sorry, guys...time to find a new rebuttal.
And, when I say "chestbeating and ego-boosting", I'm talking about these factions that don't PvP because it would be an interesting roleplaying element to explore, but instead PvP because one faction was talking smack against another, and instead of talking it out like intelligent, mature people, they decide to hacker-gank each other into oblivion.
No, let's instead focus on the suggestion that if one absolutely MUST PvP in-world, there are far better places to do it. Debir Court comes to mind, which isn't far from Mara Central, but far enough to not lag the hardline to be damned. There are also countless parks throughout Richland; there's the baseball diamond in Kaede, large rooftops on various buildings throughout the Mega City...I think you're getting the picture here. All of these places have large, open spaces suitable for PvP action and don't fall so close to hardlines that anyone wanting to conduct any kind of business there will either be: 1. ganked, should they be unfortunate enough to have a flag up, or 2. lagged so badly that they either can't move or even crash.
Some factions have made concerted efforts to take PvP back to the constructs...and that's good. At least some people out there remember what those places were made for. But the rest of these PvP-happy players need to get on that bandwagon and stop lagging up Mara and other high-traffic areas. And I know there will be people saying, "But you gotta pay to go in there, and if you die, you get sent out of the construct!" Well, folks, I'd counter that with the facts that the books, while not cheap, are not nearly costly enough to warrant THAT much complaint (and besides, if you want to PvP THAT badly, wouldn't it be worth the cost?). And, if you're worried about dying, maybe it would be wise to take someone from your faction that has rez ability and can save you the frustration of having to go back to the archivist.
And, devs, please...I know you're busy with making new emotes and everything, but it's time to make PvP relevent to the world of the Matrix again, and it's also time to turn it off in non-hostile worlds. Once in a while is fine, to help ease the bored minds of people tired of missioning, farming, and Pandora's Box-ing, but leaving it on all the time makes that world HOSTILE. If you're gonna have designations for these worlds, at least hold to them.
Message Edited by SirTemplar on 09-19-2005 06:29 AM
Well, adonai, you've just proved my point... it is the fact that people are inconsiderate gits who care nothing for anyone else that is the cause of the problem. "They stay where the prey is plentiful" is only an argument if they're fighting (let's be honest here) ganking people far lower level than them.
The level 50's COULD go anywhere. They CHOOSE to go to Mara C, absolutely proving the fact that either they're evil gankers (if they're beating up lower level chars who're trying to have a little fun, thereby removing any chance of lower levels HAVING decent PvP) or they're inconsiderate bumpkins (just making everyone elses lives difficult either through ignorance or lack of consideration for others).
Message Edited by ZenShin on 09-19-2005 04:29 AM
Message Edited by adonai on 09-19-2005 05:15 AM
Sphairo87: That is exactly the kind of short-sighted, inconsiderate attitude I was referring to. When you're running missions with low-level chars to give them a bit of a boost, taking them into Downtown, International or Westview is both suicide (for them) and stupid (for me). I'm not stupid, so I run my missions in Richland. PvP, however, can happen anywhere...
adonai: That is a much better explanation than the previous post :smileytongue: , and you've made some really good points that I hadn't considered before. PvP is necessary for the game, and I'll agree that lots of people play only to PvP (so we shouldn't take it away from them).
However, you make the suggestion that it's OK for a low-level character to be killed by a high-level one. Here, we're going to violently disagree. The low-level character also pays his monthly subscriptions, just like your high-level PvPer. He has the right to play and enjoy his game free and unmolested. Maybe he didn't know any better when he picked a hostile server and now that he's level 16-odd (I think that's when the compulsory PvP kicks in, dunno, I don't play on hostile) he doesn't really want to start all over again. Why should he be made to suffer over and over again, for the amusement of, frankly, juvenile (possibly perverted) minds (for that is the ONLY kind of mind that'll enjoy that kind of activity). It's like pulling the wings off a butterfly, or the legs off an ant... except that you're doing it to another human being. How is it any better to gank low-level characters than to forbid such ganking?
What you're also failing to take into account (I suppose you're level 50) is that the lower-level characters want to have fun too. They are already excluded from PB (because min level is 35-odd). They're already excluded from the original player events (because they just got dead). All they had, is the possibility of PvP to break the tedium of missions. And now, you want to take that away as well?
I'm not trying to get PvP banned, or anything. I'm just asking that people grow up a little. If I want to set up a little faction war (or anything else, for that matter), I should be able to do so without interference. Everybody whined about immature people spamming chat during events. That's what the inconsiderate PvPers are doing elsewhere. They're spamming the HL (in the low-level areas, I might add). They jump into PvP where they're not wanted (effectively taking away the chance for low-level characters to do PvP with other low-level characters). They interfere with player events (because it's impossible to have signifcant group combat without PvP) and if level 50's keep jumping into a low-level event it just spoils it for everyone... but I guess that's why they do it. Back to the immature, selfish mental mode.
All I ask is that people show a little more consideration for other players who AREN'T little clones of you. Who are different. Who role-play (and no, we're not carebears). Who have other aims than getting ganked on. Is that so very hard to do?
Level up somewhere safe and shut up about pvp, it's the core of the game, if your on a non hostile server than you have nothing to complain about, if your on a hostile server than you get what you signed up for.
Mara isn't a rec center, it is pvp central.
The only thing that bothers me is the lack of respect for a 1 on 1 fight, every time i've been in a duel since the merge someone(or more) jumps in. I had a guy 9 lvl's higher than me refuse a 1 on 1 becuase he couldn't have his knifer and hacker friends jump in. So ever time I died trying to battle and getting zerged by 10+ people he would /puke on me and talk trash. Funny really, I'll catch him alone at some point.
ZenShin wrote: I agree with Fayit. PvP can be fun, and it has it's time and place. However: That place is not the most popular HLs. Why do all these level 50's have to hang around Mara C, lagging out the whole region? There are plenty of places in Downtown, right by HL's that don't affect everybody else. That time is not all the time. Especially not in conjunction with 1. You're making other people's lives difficult and unpleasant. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to do a mission in Mara C (especially when you're escorting lower level crew members around to help them out) with a whole bunch of PvP going on? No, you wouldn't... because you're too busy thinking about yourselves and your PvP. The fun only starts with lvl 45+. Know why? Because many level 50's (and my apologies, in advance, to those level 50's to whom this does not apply) seem to think it's funny to load up Howitzer and drop Code Nuke on a group of lower levels having a bit of a group war. And believe it or not, even the people you "save" with that won't thank you. You're spoiling their fun too by taking away their fight.
1) PvP brakes out at Mara C because it's the most populated HL, why would you go to a HL that no one is at and hope that someone just happens to stop by with their flag turned on? If you are a RPer RP like it's real and run your *CENSORED* off when the fighting starts. Would you just stand around in the middle of gun fire telling them to stop in RL?
2) It's not any more or less difficult to run missions in Mara on a non-hostile server when ppl are pvp'n. If your flag is turned off they can't attack you, they can't attack anyone that is being lead by you. They only way it would effect you is that you stop missioning to watch the mayhem, so stop watching and mission.
3) If you want fun group war that doesn't get high levels crashing it go to the archives, that's what they are for. If the archive isn't for you then plan your little group war out and take it to an under used HL. (Some may say this goes against my first point but my first point is for unplanned pvp.)
People who complain about PvP on a non-hostile server need to go play Sims cause this game might not be for you.
Message Edited by ZenShin on 09-19-2005 08:23 AM
