Ma vs upgrademaster

Sliverfang

ok this what i dont get when i fight a buffed upgrade/ma during interlock i win most of the rolls and get him/her down to about 3/4 of his health then he starts spamming heals like crazy and slow starts coming back.my health is at 1/2 his is full so i start using pill 5.0s i have about 60 of them in case im in pvp fighting someone when theres a healer around anyways i win the fight and starts to cry about how i use pills to win but yet spaming heals isnt cheap.
and don't try to justify that its part of there build a heal is a heal weather it comes from a mcode heal a pill heal or a ab heal.

**Renesis13B**

Im not a big fan of pills or self healing. I guess its part of the game but I think its cheap. Theres healing builds you simply cant beat because they can heal faster than you can do damage. Some people have brought this up already on the forums but not much seems to be happening to fix this.

**Zerotolerance**

Renesis13B wrote:

Im not a big fan of pills or self healing. I guess its part of the game but I think its cheap. Theres healing builds you simply cant beat because they can heal faster than you can do damage. Some people have brought this up already on the forums but not much seems to be happening to fix this.

You can solo someone who has this build quite easily if you manage to keep them Powerless and/or Stunned long enough to interrupt their heals once they're below half health. Also, use desperation periodically for an initiative boost.

Tenshi

Yeah, as an MA keep your Dim mak, Wooden Dummy Drill and Triple Front Kicks handy. Since your winning most of the rolls you can sit back and wait to get a state then unleash a combo. With the right timing you can roll a UM without them getting a single hit in. As a gunman I tend to use Dual Pistol Point Blank followed by a Dual Pistol Execution with Firearms Skill, then a Pistol Aerial to stun, etc etc...

Also, on the heals being cheap I would disagree as that is the focus of the tree in itself, without the heals a UM would be rolled no problem. It's totally different when a MA/Gunman/MKT is spamming health pills as they already have their own individual strengths. Even then, anything goes in pvp, if you got pills, use 'em, people can harass you all they want for it but in the end their dying, not you...

**GoDGiVeR**

Tenshi wrote:

Also, on the heals being cheap I would disagree as that is the focus of the tree in itself, without the heals a UM would be rolled no problem. It's totally different when a MA/Gunman/MKT is spamming health pills as they already have their own individual strengths. Even then, anything goes in pvp, if you got pills, use 'em, people can harass you all they want for it but in the end their dying, not you...

Actually that's wrong (being the focus of UM tree). UM is a pure upgrading tree and combined with Physician it's a OoIL support load. IL self-healing (or passive healing as I call it) is a major issue. Even a 200hp heal can double your life duration in a small balanced PvP. Passive-heals are overpowered, yeah flame me for saying it out loud. Even if Physician heals were about to be made passive-heals, they wouldn't be used because of their IS usage and HP damage in comparison to the AOE heals.

Also ever tried Punch Reversal Catch slam on a healer? It's pretty much useless because of it's short duration. If the guy starts the heal before it he'll get healed after the effect wears off. Most of the time the heals do NOT fall into the PRCS powerless time. Pistol Barrage has a larger timer and works better but you can't be sure that it hits. IL stun abilities are always %, except specials like machinegunkick, so you can't be sure 'bout that either. So the thing you gotta do is do specials. Although it works pretty fine on 1 healer, if they have 2 passive-healers that effort is pretty much useless.

And yeah, combined efforts from different loads can always take down (multiple) healers but that's not the issue. The issue are passive heals.

Tenshi

Let me re-state that, a physician/UM LO's strengths tend to be the heals and buffs, not a pure UM. And I do agree some of the powerless timers are pretty short on some of the MA abs. However, if you're preparing for a duel with such an LO it could help to wear clothing that gives a bonus to powerless duration and stun duration? Haven't tested how well this works, just a suggestion...

**Denary**

I don't like pill heals but heals from a Trauma Surgeon are fine, it's just being tactical, the only thing I don't like is that they do encompass a large area which Rare has already begun to work on just getting it for team only. In any case state specials are your friend here.

**Hanzyl and Gretyl**

I never had any luck with Patcher in PVP. As soon as you spawn a heal your targeted and destroyed. Once in interlock my best chance was against Knife throwers as they couldn't do enough damage to me. MA's killed me everytime, same with Duelists and SMG's.

Then again doesn't matter who your in interlock with if half the battlefield is shooting you. Anyways i respeced, Patcher isn't for me.

**Denary**

The biggest downfall is if they run out of buffs in IL, they can't rebuff.

phaydren

or if a special removes them

**Aquatium.**

When fighting some who can heal, you need to design yourself to counter it, using powerless and possible stuns.

MA's have several moves that have a chance to run, and many powerless moves, those truly destroy those that can heal.

As for pills and healing, if its a duel, then most run with the rule no pills whatsoever, but someone with self heals can, since thats in their build. Now if its pvp... anything goes.

**SolidRevolver**

Aquatium. wrote:

When fighting some who can heal, you need to design yourself to counter it, using powerless and possible stuns.
MA's have several moves that have a chance to run, and many powerless moves, those truly destroy those that can heal.
As for pills and healing, if its a duel, then most run with the rule no pills whatsoever, but someone with self heals can, since thats in their build. Now if its pvp... anything goes.

I remember a duel where my opponent used Mobius so I used a pill and you would have think I just shot his mother in front of him, so my belief is (In duels) Mobius and Pills are a no-no. If however mobius was to become available to all, I would allow it, but that is another rant SMILEY

**Kemy**

I've beated a pure trauma surgeon with it (with buffs from other trees) with guns. Took me way too long, but it can be done.
I used SMG's with Duelist so I had FAR and FA, and used FA skill too. I waited till I got the healer dazed, switched to power, used FAR and hoped I'd be lucky enough to get the healer staggered in. After a long run of tries, I got lucky and was able to pull the two off. After that it was DPE (maybe some other abs for Duelist too, can't remember) and dead. I didn't have to render the healer powerless nor did I have to stun. This was against a trauma surgeon only so if he'd load any offensive abilities, I would have a harder time cause he'd do more damage. I guess it then comes down to get and keep the healer powerless and stunned.
I'd probably load my clamors and roll out of interlock, and keep out of interlock. There's a good chance of interupting the heals, even if the healer has concentration loaded. Use Clamors for the short re-use timer and keep on shooting. There's a higher chance of getting states on people outside interlock too.

Sliverfang

i agree with 20136098 about the its not fair someone you fight in pvp to use a mcode and you dont have one. intill they make it make it for everyone using a 5.0 pill is the only safe guard

**Darkhorse**

its not hard to do as a UM, UM has combat enhancement, and UM buff on, AND combat training or the other one, depending on if your stats are for guns or ma, that gives 65+10 from ce plus they are healing fast