ok all well and good with the viral defence reductions but dare i say it what about thrown defence increases as we send only a handful of abilities actually provide a thrown defence bonus and lets not even look at the clothes with quicksilvers being the only thrown defence clothes. Now im gonna get all the MKT flamers saying MKT isnt over powered all i got to say is i can max out my defence using a combination of abilities for any load except thrown and that says it all
yuenwoping wrote:Rarebit wrote:LoTekGhost wrote:I think I'd be in fair company if I asked what the reason was behind this Hyper change? I'm not asking this with a negative intent, but am simply curious as what angle this was looked at and deemed a prudent change. Assuming the reason and such can be discussed, I'm sure I wouldn't be the only on that would appreciate seeing this from the Development's eyes, to see your reasoning as it were. Hope that isn't taken the wrong way, it's just a genuine bit of curiosity. Thanks! =DI think (and you'd have to ask Dracomet to get the non-speculative answer) that the reason was that we actually have this class, called Hacker, that was being discriminated against when it came to defensive abilities everyone can use. So that was straightened out to give the Hacker class a fair shake. And then, to compensate for the due attention that will have to be paid to hackers now, additional defense against the other attack types was added to defensive upgrade abilities; that also has the effect of making the Upgrade Master tree a little more useful than it has been. So, basically the idea as far as I understand it was class balance. It isn't surprising to me that people who primarily play the other classes, and who do a lot of PVP, are going to be concerned about this, but if we want to have the classes balanced--and that has always been the intent, even if it doesn't always work out--then it's necessary to work these things out.When we had CR,hackers were so overpowered that you did the unthinkable:CR2...And now you say this!!!I'll give you an example that happened to me yesterday..I get attacked by an ma.I don't see anyone else so i believe that it's going to be 1v1...30 seconds later while in IL his friend comes(Hacker) along.Now i have a 50% chance to survive because i have hyper deflect.I manage to kill the ma and survive the hacker attacks.Now let's see this example again(after the patch):I get attacked by an ma.I don't see anyone else so i believe that it's going to be 1v1...30 seconds later while in IL his friend comes(Hacker) along.Now i have 0% chance to survive because i have NO hyper deflect.I get killed by the ma and hacker..Now that's balance.O.o!!!TonyJaaWell, if you're saying that in a 2 on 1 situation, as the 1, you're going to get pwnt if you're there standing your ground, yes, I'd agree with you, and that's always been the way it's supposed to work. In fact I'm surprised that you'd say you had a 50% survival chance in a 2 on 1 under current conditions--that basically tells me that you weren't really worried about being hurt by the hacker at all.
Rarebit wrote:LoTekGhost wrote:I think I'd be in fair company if I asked what the reason was behind this Hyper change? I'm not asking this with a negative intent, but am simply curious as what angle this was looked at and deemed a prudent change. Assuming the reason and such can be discussed, I'm sure I wouldn't be the only on that would appreciate seeing this from the Development's eyes, to see your reasoning as it were. Hope that isn't taken the wrong way, it's just a genuine bit of curiosity. Thanks! =DI think (and you'd have to ask Dracomet to get the non-speculative answer) that the reason was that we actually have this class, called Hacker, that was being discriminated against when it came to defensive abilities everyone can use. So that was straightened out to give the Hacker class a fair shake. And then, to compensate for the due attention that will have to be paid to hackers now, additional defense against the other attack types was added to defensive upgrade abilities; that also has the effect of making the Upgrade Master tree a little more useful than it has been. So, basically the idea as far as I understand it was class balance. It isn't surprising to me that people who primarily play the other classes, and who do a lot of PVP, are going to be concerned about this, but if we want to have the classes balanced--and that has always been the intent, even if it doesn't always work out--then it's necessary to work these things out.When we had CR,hackers were so overpowered that you did the unthinkable:CR2...And now you say this!!!I'll give you an example that happened to me yesterday..I get attacked by an ma.I don't see anyone else so i believe that it's going to be 1v1...30 seconds later while in IL his friend comes(Hacker) along.Now i have a 50% chance to survive because i have hyper deflect.I manage to kill the ma and survive the hacker attacks.Now let's see this example again(after the patch):I get attacked by an ma.I don't see anyone else so i believe that it's going to be 1v1...30 seconds later while in IL his friend comes(Hacker) along.Now i have 0% chance to survive because i have NO hyper deflect.I get killed by the ma and hacker..Now that's balance.O.o!!!TonyJaa
LoTekGhost wrote:I think I'd be in fair company if I asked what the reason was behind this Hyper change? I'm not asking this with a negative intent, but am simply curious as what angle this was looked at and deemed a prudent change. Assuming the reason and such can be discussed, I'm sure I wouldn't be the only on that would appreciate seeing this from the Development's eyes, to see your reasoning as it were. Hope that isn't taken the wrong way, it's just a genuine bit of curiosity. Thanks! =DI think (and you'd have to ask Dracomet to get the non-speculative answer) that the reason was that we actually have this class, called Hacker, that was being discriminated against when it came to defensive abilities everyone can use. So that was straightened out to give the Hacker class a fair shake. And then, to compensate for the due attention that will have to be paid to hackers now, additional defense against the other attack types was added to defensive upgrade abilities; that also has the effect of making the Upgrade Master tree a little more useful than it has been. So, basically the idea as far as I understand it was class balance. It isn't surprising to me that people who primarily play the other classes, and who do a lot of PVP, are going to be concerned about this, but if we want to have the classes balanced--and that has always been the intent, even if it doesn't always work out--then it's necessary to work these things out.
I think I'd be in fair company if I asked what the reason was behind this Hyper change? I'm not asking this with a negative intent, but am simply curious as what angle this was looked at and deemed a prudent change. Assuming the reason and such can be discussed, I'm sure I wouldn't be the only on that would appreciate seeing this from the Development's eyes, to see your reasoning as it were. Hope that isn't taken the wrong way, it's just a genuine bit of curiosity. Thanks! =D
like what i scoured mxoresource when it was up and there was very little thrown defence resistance is another matter
All sounds good to me... Though I would rather see two hypers of your choice rather than just one.
As for the people complaining about not having the free hyper against viral... Maybe we won't see so many of you going to block tactics and casually strolling towards the hacker now while he unloads everything on you and it bounces. One hyper means you have to worry about that sniper, or mkt waiting in sneak to hit you as well.
I'd say all in all it's a good balance. I think some people are just a bit concerned that now they are going to have to really give the hacker his due, especially those who know what they are doing, and have made the system that was basically working against them work. Now the system is going to be on a more even keel, which means the good hackers job of killing and crowd control became a lot less complicated.
We will see who switches to Hacker now. Current hackers everywhere are rejoicing!Not exactly sure what prompted the change, though. Hacks still got in pretty effectively with Hyper-Deflect. It's gonna be a pain to see a bunch of AoE hackers toss some DoTs and debuffs in group PvP. Looks like VD buffs will be a must now.
Really, the issue isn't 2 on 1 or even a 1 on 1. But when you are pvping with a mission full and you and 4 other people go in to interlock, and say you have 1 who is mkt or gunman, or even a patcher or hacker.
Everyone matches up with someone basically. Which means you'll have to switch to their hyper (going up against a MA then put on hyper-block) That leaves you exposed to people hitting you out of interlock. And that's always been the case. I mean you have MA, gunman, and knifers that can hit you as well. But only the hacker can go in to a pvp situation and do his attacks over 5 meters. So he can hit everyone instead of just one. (which would be the case with a knifer, MA, or mkt).
But really even more than that it's the crazy debuffs from the hacker tree that can mess everyone up. The hacker can make everyone powerless, and stunned while everyone is stuck in interlock. It's not just like one person. And even if it was one person, no other tree can launch the debuffs the hacker can, making it more lethal. Which is why a lot of people found it crucialto have the hyper deflect going 24/7. And even then, as of late hackers have been ripping everyone up on Vector. And that's with the deflect going 24/7.
I just think people are worried that Hacker will become too over powered. I'm going out on a limb on this one, but maybe it wasn't a bug where you could stack the hyper-deflect and the others. But it was actually intentional by the dev because that person knew it would be fair like that.
And like Madbent and I said before, it is not going to be the end all be all if we can't stack the deflect anymore. It will just be more challenging and require more complex strategies. I can already think of a few that may work.
