[8.2.2] We can't keep losing people, Ms. Wright - Syntax - 8/31/07

**GoDGiVeR**

Croesus wrote:

Your attempts to circumvent the system causes many bluepill deaths, not only those who you test out with prototype codes, but also with the ones that the system uses to try to prevent you from tampering with it.

Blame the Machines all you want, but this bluepill's blood is on your hands, just because someone thinks they have a new code to try doesn't mean you have to immediately try it out on test subjects.

Wrights pride and Zions ignorance caused this.

That the Agents need human hosts is the Machines fault alone.

I don't blame the Machines, although, yes I do. They are as much at fault as Zion is, but they will not see it, nor accept it. Their logic isn't flawed in their view, but they do not see that logic itself is flawed.

Zion is full aware of the consequences of the new pills, it was before it was tested and it was aware when it happened. So was Mrs. Wright.

-Dedatorus

P.S.: I don't like that they test the pills on blues, either. But as I said, you sacrifice as many blues as we do. Excusing yourself that the system does it with more logic, efficiency and because of the need, that is complete BS.

**Croesis** · 09/05/2007 08:40:15

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Excusing yourself that the system does it with more logic, efficiency and because of the need, that is complete BS.

I didn't try to excuse their actions and I wouldn't excuse it, not when it comes down to the lives of the people that I and a good many Machinists are trying to protect. What I did say was that Pace knew of the outcome before the order was given, she knew that that one unfortunate bluepill would be killed.

Testing a new prototype pill on a Bluepill with promises of the 'truth' and 'freedom' when not even the designer is fully sure that it'd work is completely different. Did you even tell him it was a prototype? His attitude could have been a lot different if you told him that it may not work.

For all the good it did, this may as well be your new 'red pill'

**Roukan**

GoDGiVeR wrote:

You guys are only angry at Zion, but if it comes down to when Mechs, Mervs or even Cyphies playing around with the blues, it's dead silent.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.

I'm not even going to dignify that with an IC response, I'm the first person to bring up Mechs killing bluepills, or Cyphs, and mervs. Good job not learning the facts.

**RetroX** · 09/05/2007 10:14:40

hellstomp3r wrote:

AFGM1 wrote:
((This was one of the worst events I've ever been to, no it wasn't SOE's fault, it was all those *CENSORED* idiots that attended who couldn't shut up and stop spamming my chat window.)
OMG, this is so true. I have recieved emails from all Zion Officer Liasons stating that we do not, nor shall not share information with EPN. Yet you let them into our meetings? They dont let us into thiers! Matter of fact most of EPN liason are total &%$#* yet you let EPN ops come in and spam and ruin our "Zion" events. I really am geting sick of this. As a Zion. A true *CENSORED* ZION!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice to see how Niobe/rare let Havocide kinda start dictating things for a min. (sarfkncastic)
Favoritizm is rough enough, but to bring it to a "ZION" event, now im kinda really totally pissed about this.
"soon to be banned or applauded"
Neopill

((Dude relax on blaming the whole of EPN. First off before you take the org as whole as a bunch spamers you are actually quoting someone in EPN and agreeing with them. So that just there proves you cant say all that about EPN...What the zion spamers who spam EPN events or even there own events?

I do agree with you on the spam at events but ya know just stop blaming it on an org because it isn't just one org here.

And to the point about Havocide, EPN now help out Zion even tho we may not directly share information. I would hardly call it dictating things because he takes a keen IC intrest. Besides that how on earth could anyway dictate anything in the current event climate? So if you would like to tell me what this dictatorship was please?))

Haigen

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Haigen wrote:
Next time risk your life and not the innocent. You'll regret this sooner or later, Captain.

HAHA, should I laugh at the attempt in trying to sound better than us? You risk the bluepill lifes the same way, even worse in my opinion. You have no right to critizise this, Cyphy.

You're barking up the wrong tree, mutt. I have no interest in petty squabbles with you over your meaningless opinion of our organization. The day of reckoning is coming.

Sweet dreams.

**GoDGiVeR** · 09/05/2007 11:32:32

Roukan wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

You guys are only angry at Zion, but if it comes down to when Mechs, Mervs or even Cyphies playing around with the blues, it's dead silent.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.

I'm not even going to dignify that with an IC response, I'm the first person to bring up Mechs killing bluepills, or Cyphs, and mervs. Good job not learning the facts.

((Well Roukan, I don't see where the problem lies? The character Dedatorus is a young, quite naive Zion operative. You shouldn't be surprised by such statements. Ah well, now you know.))

**GoDGiVeR**

Croesus wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:
Excusing yourself that the system does it with more logic, efficiency and because of the need, that is complete BS.
I didn't try to excuse their actions and I wouldn't excuse it, not when it comes down to the lives of the people that I and a good many Machinists are trying to protect. What I did say was that Pace knew of the outcome before the order was given, she knew that that one unfortunate bluepill would be killed.
Testing a new prototype pill on a Bluepill with promises of the 'truth' and 'freedom' when not even the designer is fully sure that it'd work is completely different. Did you even tell him it was a prototype? His attitude could have been a lot different if you told him that it may not work.

Very unfortunate bluepill, yes. "Mr., you are a danger to the whole city, but you don't know even what this city is. Good-bye" *bang*

As I said, I don't agree with testing those red-pills with bluepills at hand. It's like the Cypherites when forcing someone the blue pill.

Croesus wrote:

For all the good it did, this may as well be your new 'red pill'

That is EPNs weapon, not ours.

Tosuno

shinpseudo wrote:

hellstomp3r wrote:
AFGM1 wrote:
((This was one of the worst events I've ever been to, no it wasn't SOE's fault, it was all those *CENSORED* idiots that attended who couldn't shut up and stop spamming my chat window.)
OMG, this is so true. I have recieved emails from all Zion Officer Liasons stating that we do not, nor shall not share information with EPN. Yet you let them into our meetings? They dont let us into thiers! Matter of fact most of EPN liason are total &%$#* yet you let EPN ops come in and spam and ruin our "Zion" events. I really am geting sick of this. As a Zion. A true *CENSORED* ZION!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice to see how Niobe/rare let Havocide kinda start dictating things for a min. (sarfkncastic)
Favoritizm is rough enough, but to bring it to a "ZION" event, now im kinda really totally pissed about this.
"soon to be banned or applauded"
Neopill

(( I agree with you regarding the mass amount of idiocy at the event...in fact I event commented to you about it while the event was going on...however I don't think it's fair to vilify an entire org based on that. Every org has bad seeds. Sometimes when enough of them get in one place at an event, it casts a broad shadow. The recent-ish hybrid Q&A event with Michael and Niobe, for example, I think people overall were very well-behaved. Lastly, from an RP standpoint, I understood EPN and Zion had each other's collective backs right now; I had thought the "not sharing of information" thing was a bit passé during the present timeframe. ))

(( I also agree with this. Things have gotten so bad with these Zion events that I actually no longer take part in them. I HATE seeing EPNs at Zion events but it is not right to blame them completely. The fact that Zion is the "default" org means alot of new players show up to these events, and don't have any idea what they are doing. That causes problems, but nothing can be done about that. What really gets to me is seeing Zion events like this ruined by expiririanced players. I refuse to take part in a Zion event where the majority of sane behavior is by EPN. Zion and EPN are allies, but they are not the same org. I just find it very annoying that Zion can't have an event without EPN taking over the scene. -_- ))

**Gerik**

Tosuno wrote:

shinpseudo wrote:
hellstomp3r wrote:
AFGM1 wrote:
((This was one of the worst events I've ever been to, no it wasn't SOE's fault, it was all those *CENSORED* idiots that attended who couldn't shut up and stop spamming my chat window.)
OMG, this is so true. I have recieved emails from all Zion Officer Liasons stating that we do not, nor shall not share information with EPN. Yet you let them into our meetings? They dont let us into thiers! Matter of fact most of EPN liason are total &%$#* yet you let EPN ops come in and spam and ruin our "Zion" events. I really am geting sick of this. As a Zion. A true *CENSORED* ZION!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice to see how Niobe/rare let Havocide kinda start dictating things for a min. (sarfkncastic)
Favoritizm is rough enough, but to bring it to a "ZION" event, now im kinda really totally pissed about this.
"soon to be banned or applauded"
Neopill

(( I agree with you regarding the mass amount of idiocy at the event...in fact I event commented to you about it while the event was going on...however I don't think it's fair to vilify an entire org based on that. Every org has bad seeds. Sometimes when enough of them get in one place at an event, it casts a broad shadow. The recent-ish hybrid Q&A event with Michael and Niobe, for example, I think people overall were very well-behaved. Lastly, from an RP standpoint, I understood EPN and Zion had each other's collective backs right now; I had thought the "not sharing of information" thing was a bit passé during the present timeframe. ))
(( I also agree with this. Things have gotten so bad with these Zion events that I actually no longer take part in them. I HATE seeing EPNs at Zion events but it is not right to blame them completely. The fact that Zion is the "default" org means alot of new players show up to these events, and don't have any idea what they are doing. That causes problems, but nothing can be done about that. What really gets to me is seeing Zion events like this ruined by expiririanced players. I refuse to take part in a Zion event where the majority of sane behavior is by EPN. Zion and EPN are allies, but they are not the same org. I just find it very annoying that Zion can't have an event without EPN taking over the scene. -_- ))

((I will say it was a combination of both Zion and EPN who were spamming, like with Cafu shouting 'WTB Patchers Bandana' or whatever he said. I got him to shut up by whispering I'd report him if he didn't be quiet, although I know that won't work on everyone and I'm not gonna take the time to tell everyone that who can't keep quiet. One of the others who couldn't keep quiet also went mech the next day. And I'll be quiet now, because I said what I came here to say and don't wanna be a spammer!

))

**Illyria22**

So Danielle Wright wants to "ensure human control over the Matrix"? She's starting to sound like Anome.

Illyria

**CPT_Starschwar** · 09/05/2007 13:30:54

This is a new low, even for Zion. This was an insult to the good name of science and an act of murder. Zion *knew* the pills were lethal - tests on redpills demonstarted that they wer fatal or at least cause severe injury. To expect something different when used on an unawakened is absurd. I will not allow this needless slaughter to continue.

**Vitruv**

kou_urake wrote:

This is a new low, even for Zion. This was an insult to the good name of science and an act of murder. Zion *knew* the pills were lethal - tests on redpills prooved them to be fatal or at least caused severe injury. To expect something different when used on an unawakened is rediculous. I will not allow this needless slaughter to continue.

Oh, no, we didn't. Wright considered that issue causing the injury corrected, so did we. And the reason he died was not the same reason why people were injured in before - a totally other reason. We don't kill Bluepills randomly - unlike specific... other people... I don't need to name.

Iovai · 09/05/2007 14:20:00

It is 'unethical' to conduct such tests, less so when the control group (despite the fact that there was only one test subject, so this experiment gets the 'invalidity' stamp in my book) is supposed to die. However being a physicist I tend to not have reason to conduct experiments involving living things. Silly chemists.

But, from a redpill standpoint;

Apparently someone didn't get the memo. Everyone kills bluepills.

Its somthing that can't be avoided given the status quo.

**Fugitiv3**

Iovai wrote:

Apparently someone didn't get the memo. Everyone kills bluepills.
Its somthing that can't be avoided given the status quo.

Anytime you kill Building Security or a SWAT officer or even an Agent, really.

"Everybody's doing it!"

**CPT_Starschwar** · 09/05/2007 14:22:43

Vitruv wrote:

kou_urake wrote:
This is a new low, even for Zion. This was an insult to the good name of science and an act of murder. Zion *knew* the pills were lethal - tests on redpills prooved them to be fatal or at least caused severe injury. To expect something different when used on an unawakened is rediculous. I will not allow this needless slaughter to continue.

Oh, no, we didn't. Wright considered that issue causing the injury corrected, so did we. And the reason he died was not the same reason why people were injured in before - a totally other reason. We don't kill Bluepills randomly - unlike specific... other people... I don't need to name.

Ah, so it's standard policy to *not* test revised pills and skip right to live trials. That makes *so* much sense. Furthermore the Machines do not "randomly" kill Bluepills - in the rare and tragic circumstances that they were killed were planned and calculated. Tragic acts I also disagree with, but understand the rationale behind. This however, was a needless rush to use an untested program with questionable stability at best.