Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

**TekMon**

AvatRAMa, Agreed. A hacker might take half the HP of another player in 20 seconds, though we are taking the best scenario possible. As it was said, the best way to see the overall effect in the last few days before going live.
I'm arguing in favor of hackers, because I fell that the Combat Revision might go in the wrong way, giving a new play state, where MA become the selected class for every trade.
I want, the same as you, to have the freedom that I have to choose any class as it suits my personal game style. MxO is not only PvP and having an environment that might force me in that sense is not The Matrix to me.

TekMon, The New Order

**Renesis13B**

You would rather have everyone using Hacker than Martial Arts? I find that really suprising and I think the majority of the players dont want to see that happen.

**TekMon**

Renesis13B wrote:
You would rather have everyone using Hacker than Martial Arts? I find that really suprising and I think the majority of the players dont want to see that happen.

No, I didn't say that. I'm all for balance amongst class. I accepted what Frog said about the downing of power for hacker on IL. I understand that the way it is now at live, is what it makes hacker overpowered.

My position comes from the perspective that is not good to nerf hackers instead of balancing them. OK, hacker is not a IL class, so it must be tough for a hacker to win on IL and most of the changes on the EP server are going through that path.

Nevertheless, if the claim is to have it as a support or second line fighting class, taking out the ability to be effective at range defeats that purpose. That's why I'm asking for a review of the effects at distance.

TekMon, The New Order

>revolt_

Well, I found myself quite effective at range as a hacker...

>revolt_

VampTrix

hacker ftw :smileytongue:

CrazyJun

>revolt_ wrote:
Well, I found myself quite effective at range as a hacker...

>revolt_

I must agree now :smileywink: I thought as well that I wanna miss the Upgrade Attacks, but I tested howitzer on Creston Hideout mobs yesterday (team consists of 1 utility master and me as a hacker) and had no problems till the mid of the 2nd floor (8 lvl 51 ... no way :smileytongue: ). I never used Upgrade Attacks and 2 of 3 attacks hit from the range and 1 of 2 attacks hit in IL.
For PvP I must say it depends on your oponents loadout (as always :smileywink: ), but I had no probs except 1 Aikido GM. His viral defense was amazing and I couldn't hit him with an accuracy of 242 :smileysurprised: .

peace,
CJ

**TekMon**

Yeah, the 50% to 66% chance of success seems to be balanced, though I still think 20 seconds of duration it's a short time, being that the reuse timer is almost 5 times longer. Maybe 30 seconds are better.
I found out that fighting NPC is not a problem, even with 3 chevron mobs, though it's viral deflection drops the accuracy below 50%. Fortunately, the status conditions were shortened in time too. I still have to test it on PvP. Combat looks more interesting now.

TekMon, The New Order

**Renesis13B** · 03/25/2006 10:06:22

Viral Accuracy of 242? Tell me one other class than can come anywhere near that number in offense or defense. I have no idea how an Akido GM can get that much viral defense. He must have been buffed to hell. I havent broken 165 with duelist.

CrazyJun wrote:
I must agree now :smileywink: I thought as well that I wanna miss the Upgrade Attacks, but I tested howitzer on Creston Hideout mobs yesterday (team consists of 1 utility master and me as a hacker) and had no problems till the mid of the 2nd floor (8 lvl 51 ... no way :smileytongue: ). I never used Upgrade Attacks and 2 of 3 attacks hit from the range and 1 of 2 attacks hit in IL.
For PvP I must say it depends on your oponents loadout (as always :smileywink: ), but I had no probs except 1 Aikido GM. His viral defense was amazing and I couldn't hit him with an accuracy of 242 :smileysurprised: .

peace,
CJ

Message Edited by Renesis13B on 03-25-200601:06 PM

CrazyJun · 03/25/2006 10:45:20

I don't know if he was buffed, but I couldn't hack him. :smileysad: The 242 seems to be alot, but that's only for 20secs. Even if I can downgrade your viral defense in this time, you have 130 left. That is still more compared to my normal viral accuracy. :smileywink:

And another class that can get acc like that .... rifleman /sniper.

peace,
CJ

Message Edited by CrazyJun on 03-25-200610:45 AM

cryshal

more nerfing of the hacker. i wish i had the ear of the devs like these ppl seem to. hackers arent 'supposed' to rule in interlock, fair enough. but why are we being nerfed for ranged/free fire also? this makes no sense. if a hacker is attacking an npc or player, outside of interlock, they should have a small but definite advantage, its that simple. its funny how the MA's certainly hit me more than 50% of the time.. =P

>revolt_

As I said, hackers are NOT nerfed outside of interlock. They still hit A LOT.

I loaded it. I tested it. I felt for my victims.

>revolt_

**TekMon**

How much is a lot revolt? I'm not arguing against your claims, but trying to have another source of information besides my own tests.

So far, I have the following numbers, based on my tests:

(NOTE: All the NPC information was obtained running missions on tiny/hard setting)

Outside Interlock:

- Orange 1 chevron: Efficiency around 80%
- Orange 2 chevron: Efficiency around 65%
- Orange 3 chevron: Efficiency around 50%

At Interlock
- Orange 1 chevron: Efficiency around 70%
- Orange 2 chevron: Efficiency around 55%
- Orange 3 chevron: Efficiency around 45%

I used Upgrade Attacks whenever possible.

As you can see, my tests show that hacker is no longer the elite class for fighting. Moreover, running into battle to engage in interlock with more than 3 mobs was a sure kill for my RSI 1 of 2 times, as my Nemesis was depleting my IS.

I would say that if the class still shows signs of being overpowered, it's better to review and balance the issues that produce such overpower. I admit that maybe the 20 seconds timer could be the right value, even if I fell it's too short to be really effective.

Maybe I'm not a good fighter and, of course, my views are biased with my current mind set regarding hackers. Nevertheless, I fell that hackers are more on the line and that are more closer at balance than ever.

TekMon, The New Order

>revolt_

Hm, given that your out of interlock success rate is higher than your in interlock success rate I'd say those percentages seem to be high enough to be a danger out of interlock. You can still throw barrage after blast after barrage after one target. If he comes too close you hyperjump, come back, and rinse repeat the barrage/blast nuking. This is how it should be in my opinion.

>revolt_

**TekMon**

I agree. Hacker must fight at distance to be effective. I still need to test it at PvP, though I hope the numbers won't change too much from the 3 chevron references. After all, a human it's better than the MxO AI, isn't it? SMILEY

TekMon, The New Order

**Renesis13B**

Npc balance and pvp balance are 2 different things. I still think the at interlock numbers are too high. Most are only a 10% difference which is basically nothing. If a fight takes 10 hits outside of interlock it only takes you 11 in interlock. Hackers should not be that powerful in interlock since they are a range fighting class.

Outside Interlock:

- Orange 1 chevron: Efficiency around 80%
- Orange 2 chevron: Efficiency around 65%
- Orange 3 chevron: Efficiency around 50%

At Interlock
- Orange 1 chevron: Efficiency around 70%
- Orange 2 chevron: Efficiency around 55%
- Orange 3 chevron: Efficiency around 45%

TekMon, The New Order