Most rooting attacks that you have implied Anx can't be used from within IL, there are no attacks in Hacker to keep a player remaining in IL when they are in IL themselves. Rifleman has 2 moves that can be used in IL, one of which is a state and the other just makes the rifleman roll out, so again the opponent need wait 8 seconds max before he can roll. SMG has no moves that root while in IL. Duelist has Dual Pistol Dash, can only be used out of IL, that has a very limited duration and a long re-use timer. MA have very few abilities that enrage as well. Meaning yes you can get a few rolls in IL but after those effects have gone they can't be implemented again unless you yourself roll out and apply them which is nonsense, of course since it is contested it isn't the same as the old system but it still presents a challenge, those who have dumped extra points into Vitality usually are able to roll out much easier than someone who has put them into another defense. MA's cannot do anything unless they are in IL, once in IL they also have to keep them there which I find enough of a problem without them having to worry about actually keeping them in there in the first place.
ranged classes shouldnt be concerned with stayin in interlock with a target, as their main concern should be staying out of interlock and keeping their target slowed/rooted and unable to hyperjump.
And your also looking at things as they are instead of how they could be. It wouldnt take much for them to add some states to different specials to make up for MA's not having tomo nage as a non state special that would enrage for 30 seconds.
And as for vitality, I've had 30 vitality, and still not been able to roll out. Vast majority of the bonuses you get from attributes only work when your running a buff of the same type. So kinda like how belief modifies movement speed, but doesnt take effect until you turn on hyperspeed.
Like I said the bottom line is all combat eventually leads to interlock, and leads to interlock way to fast. And for a class not suited to fighting in interlock, your options atm are either bunny hop in hopes to get your shield back up, or... flat out hj away. Now given the options, which would you rather have people doing? To change nothing and to fix the bunny hop "bug", you leave people no choice but to HJ, which means basically for alot of classes, as soon as their shield gets popped, they're gonna jump.
pack-hunter wrote:
I'd rather have them Hyper Jump away, if they bunny hop and you've broken their evade, they'll have to HJ anyway, because they can't raise evade while I'm following them on the ground. And when say a Rifleman is attacking, if I attack when they're on Power it takes 1 hit on green it goes. I'm also against changing shield damage levels because of the amount of IS that is drained when someone impacts the evade, Plus again it would make it harder for the IL classes to fight, when I fight broin who is one of the Best Hackers on vector he usually beats me because he knows how to keep me out of IL without resorting to tactics like bunny hopping and I'll say that he usually beats me unless I get him into IL quickly, even then the fights quite even. Bunnyhopping still causes also the break of IL, for a round and a half, giving the bunnyhopper a chance to attack the opponent quite easily with little resistance from the opponent.
um... if they're jumping up and down to evade interlock, and your spamming on interlock trying to catch them, it triggers your interlock timer, meaning they can get a shield up. So they arent forced to HJ...
More than that, if they're jumping up and down to evade interlock, you still have a chance at catching them where as if you force them to HJ, they're simply gone and better luck next time.
This is still a bug, it's a bug that is not required, CR1 it was a massive problem, people used to just roll out whenever they were powerless and jump up and down on the spot till the powerless layed off, in CR2 it's not as much as a problem but it still breaks the IL system, it still allows you to skip a couple of seconds and go into free fire, it still gives and advantage, however long it's been around, it's still a bug, it still needs to be fixed and I see 2 ways of doing it Widen the window of IL opportunity, fix the no tactic problem preferably, but I wouldn't mind either way, leave it for the first patch I'd love to see the faces on the regular bunny hoppers when they get IL'd every time and loose their abilitiesRemove the ability to jump when under the combat state, maybe it's a little harsh but it's a fix, I don't see any other way around it.I do see the fact that it will add some variety to the combat system and it does give the builds not suited to IL a chance to escape, but in doing so it makes it almost impossible for the IL builds to fight which isn't fair, MA using hindering shot is preposterous , it's not an MA move, it is a gun move, and it's difficult for the MA to hit. Going further out and lets make it more philosophical and test some minds eh? People are saying that this bug should be left well alone, then should the Passive code (the healing ability that gives 25pts to healing) have been fixed when it used to be able to be on constantly? it gave healers an actual chance to fight and it expanded the horizons, more people used healers for combat because it was effective when coupled with that so why was it removed?
it was never a massive problem in CR1, very few people ever did it, and back then the penalty for getting caught mid air was even worse cause you had no chance of rolling out at all.
And you cant remove the ability to jump up and down in combat state. We dont pvp on a single massive terrain thats nothing but a flat space, and you need to be able to jump over walls, off ledges, etc... to get into the fight, or to escape from a fight.
Like I said, the bottom line that is undeniable is the fact that all combat eventually leads to interlock, and for classes that cant survive in interlock something needs to be done to allow them to either evade becoming interocked, or to be able to escape interlock. You wanna talk about fair, well how is it fair that an MA can sit on block tactics evading most of the stuff you can throw/shoot/launch at them, pop your shield with very little effort, then interlock you and be able to deliver 600+ damage non state specials. Block tactics effecting anything out side of interlock is a joke tbh, but its what we have, and when someone's just sitting there on block, the stuff that you need to hit to keep yourself out of interlock misses, your screwed and have no choice but to HJ then at that point when you have no alternative.
Im all for fixing legit bugs, but when fixing a bug is gonna force more people into hyperjumping, I think it gets to be a question of priority and prefference, because I'd much rather have the bunny hoppers than more HJ'ers. Every class but MA's are capable of slowing a person when they're bunny hopping, which will result in them being unable to HJ, and allow you to IL them. And in group pvp, if your an MA and working as a team, it wont be long before someone on your team will slow the person you want to IL anyway.
So what are the single MA supposed to do about it, you can't just ignore a certain group because it's convienient. CR2 was designed to balance the system. The removal of the bug will make the system more stable and more fair than if the bug remains in place.
did I say to leave them out? I said given the choice of removing this "bug" with out doing anything else to make interlock seem like less of a death trap for thoes not suited to fight in interlock which is gonna result in more hyperjumping, and leaving it in and having people bunny hop, I'll take the bunny hoppers.
I already said what I think should be done if this "bug" is to be fixed. Make roll out uncontested, impliment a 5 second debuff to say that you cannot roll out via the withdraw ability once interlock combat is started, make enrage function correctly, thus when an MA starts interlock combat, they have 1 chance at winning a roll with some move to cause an enraged state for 10+ seconds that will force the person to stay in interlock.
yea sometimes in trying to roll out you can make it out within one combat roll... but this always isnt the case, sometimes it can take 5+ which is bs.
And keep something in mind, MA's can do 600-1000 dmg non state specials when the correct chain of abilities are used. Adding in a 5 second debuff at the start of interlock and then if the person can land a move which would cause a 10+ second enrage, that gives you 15 seconds or more. Keep in mind where it says 10 plus seconds worth of enrage. And thats in addition to the fact that MA's have a 4 second powerless off punch reversal, you can stun with falling kick, and you can cause a confuse off w/e kungfu move it is. So there would be ways for an MA to keep a target in interlock.
Having a system such as that in place takes it back to how it was in CR1 which was that your responsible for keeping your target in interlock, the person remaining in interlock isnt up to some bs roll and weather or not you get lucky enough that they cant roll out. It gives you the power TO keep them them interlocked.
And at the same time, you make interlock less feared because you can roll out if your able to sweep your debuffs etc and get out.
I like how swimming started this thread but he does it all the time just thought id add that in
you forget that things are subject to change, stop looking at how it is, and look at how it could be with minimal effort.
Duelist: dual pistol execution - required states stun - causes 15 second enrage. pistol aerial - causes 6 second stun. Pistol barrage - 40% chance to enrage for 10 seconds, etc....
Doesnt take much work to add enrage as a debuff to some abilities.
Thats just from CR1, in any case removing DPE from the normal attack equation just makes duelist a hell of a lot harder, due to the damage output of the build being nowhere near any of the other builds, making their major attack require states it just plain mean. Barrage is also the only attack that is not state special in the duelist tree no-way should they get rid of that ability.
the point Im making is things with little effort can change.
And on the note of making stun a required state for DPE, thats how it was in CR1, and it was easy to hit once you landed your aerial and got your stun off. And in CR2, once you stun a person, it will be a special with an accuracy bonus vs. a regular attack, so you should have a good chance at landing it.
Relox wrote:I like how swimming started this thread but he does it all the time just thought id add that in I haven't been on for over a month... and I only start doing it when endo is around and starts annoying me with it...
