Balance Out PvP - Hypers Related

**Gerik** · 10/09/2008 08:02:20

Vosiler wrote:

Gerik wrote:
Vosiler wrote:
your not forced to
no ones forcing you to /pvp and get your Butt (wont let me use a better word) kicked thats your choice, also if your in il and some one shoots you i pretty sure you currently get a bonus from it a dev will have to correct me on this please, but its my understanding if your being attacked by some one while your in il you get an initiative bonus.
You're missing the point. People shouldn't have to not use a certain loadout because of other ones nor should they stop because of it, you really need to get that through that skull of yours and stop being stupid.

lol @ "if your being attacked by some one while your in il you get an initiative bonus"
try it and see, or are you just another one who pays a mxo sub not to play the game but to chat with friend on the fourms ?

No, I'm not gonna "try and see" because that doesn't happen. If I wanted an initiative bonus, I'll load Desperation, not get shot and pray to god that I'll somehow become Neo in IL because of it.

**Yasamuu**

Vinia wrote:

I thought Initiative only kicks in when desperation is used.

DING DING DING

We have a winner!

Croesis

Yasamuu wrote:

Vinia wrote:
I thought Initiative only kicks in when desperation is used.
DING DING DING

We have a winner!

Yay Me!

**Vosiler** · 10/09/2008 08:22:18

Vinia wrote:

Yasamuu wrote:
Vinia wrote:
I thought Initiative only kicks in when desperation is used.
DING DING DING

We have a winner!
Yay Me!

actually no it kicks in when you have much lower health so 50% vs 100% the 50% will have better rolls untill the health is about equal desp only makes a difference when you have less than 50% health as the lower health you get the more Initiative you get (only slightly more) but its mostly about how much health you have,

Also unless a dev wants to correct me how many people are attacking you.

anyway ive said my opinion and i dont want to argue over it i accept certain people will never agree with me and thats fine but id rather not keep going on about it. so i wont reply to anymore posts dissagreeing with me unless its a dev correction then ill edit SMILEY

**Yasamuu** · 10/09/2008 08:26:34

Vosiler wrote:

Vinia wrote:
Yasamuu wrote:
Vinia wrote:
I thought Initiative only kicks in when desperation is used.
DING DING DING

We have a winner!
Yay Me!

actually no it kicks in when you have much lower health so 50% vs 100% the 50% will have better rolls untill the health is about equal desp only makes a difference when you have less than 50% health as the lower health you get the more Initiative you get (only slightly more) but its mostly about how much health you have,
Also unless a dev wants to correct me how many people are attacking you.

anyway ive said my opinion and i dont want to argue over it i accept certain people will never agree with me and thats fine but id rather not keep going on about it. so i wont reply to anymore posts dissagreeing with me unless its a dev correction then ill edit

Actually, it's more effective when you have much lower than half health but if you use it from the start it also has some effect effect. I've seen MA's use that technique, with mixed results, to try and end a duel quickly.

Players can correct you if you're wrong, we don't need a dev to waste their time doing so. SMILEY

**Grave**

Yasamuu wrote:

Vosiler wrote:
Vinia wrote:
Yasamuu wrote:
Vinia wrote:
I thought Initiative only kicks in when desperation is used.
DING DING DING

We have a winner!
Yay Me!

actually no it kicks in when you have much lower health so 50% vs 100% the 50% will have better rolls untill the health is about equal desp only makes a difference when you have less than 50% health as the lower health you get the more Initiative you get (only slightly more) but its mostly about how much health you have,
Also unless a dev wants to correct me how many people are attacking you.

anyway ive said my opinion and i dont want to argue over it i accept certain people will never agree with me and thats fine but id rather not keep going on about it. so i wont reply to anymore posts dissagreeing with me unless its a dev correction then ill edit
Actually, it's more effective when you have much lower than half health but if you use it from the start it also has some effect effect. I've seen MA's use that technique, with mixed results, to try and end a duel quickly.

Players can correct you if you're wrong, we don't need a dev to waste their time doing so.

yer ive done that can use it at the start of a fight and around the at the end two... works more then you think it would too

**Vosiler**

Yasamuu wrote:

Vosiler wrote:
Vinia wrote:
Yasamuu wrote:
Vinia wrote:
I thought Initiative only kicks in when desperation is used.
DING DING DING

We have a winner!
Yay Me!

actually no it kicks in when you have much lower health so 50% vs 100% the 50% will have better rolls untill the health is about equal desp only makes a difference when you have less than 50% health as the lower health you get the more Initiative you get (only slightly more) but its mostly about how much health you have,
Also unless a dev wants to correct me how many people are attacking you.

anyway ive said my opinion and i dont want to argue over it i accept certain people will never agree with me and thats fine but id rather not keep going on about it. so i wont reply to anymore posts dissagreeing with me unless its a dev correction then ill edit
Actually, it's more effective when you have much lower than half health but if you use it from the start it also has some effect effect. I've seen MA's use that technique to decent effect to try and end a duel quickly.

Players can correct you if you're wrong, we don't need a dev to waste their time doing so.

actually no as you have no idea for certain if its true or not so players cant. and every ma that uses desp at the start with me gets their Butt (again filter) handed back to them. i am ma and i can say im a very good one also many wont like it but thats fact, and i gave an example 50% vs 100% of this to make a point if you are both at 20% health desp has the same effect as if you were both 100% thats tested so go get a dev to try and correct me as im pretty sure you dont have a clue SMILEY

but now ill be the bigger man and stop posting as you clearly have a problem with me. Good Game

**GoDGiVeR** · 10/09/2008 08:44:37

Vosilier, it's getting ridiculous, I'm sorry to say that.

Initiative increases the chance of successfully executing an ability in Interlock (no passive abs and buffs) (in other words it influences accuracy (old term combat tactics)).

HOWEVER, 99% of the game only rewards the so called "Initiative Bonus". The "IB" is a "Turbo" (quote 9mmfu, who IS a dev), which are often also simply called "Bonus" (e.g. Inner Strength Regeneration Rate Bonus). A turbo does NOT work without an "engine" (quote 9mmfu again) (to follow my example: Inner Strength Regeneration Rate is influenced by the ISRR Bonus. Only abilities and Consumables with the "engine" are influenced by the Turbo/Bonus, Clothes are never influenced, quote Devs from various threads all over the years). No matter how much Initiative Bonus you may have, it does nothing at all.

And now listen closely: There is only 1 ability (as confirmed by the devs years ago, use search plz, kthx) that uses Initiative DIRECTLY: Desperation.

Desperation activates and increases the Initiative you have according to your Health Status (my guess is that the base pts are influenced by the health status and thus the influence by the IB is greater the less HP you have since the base increases with lower health).

And now a quote from yours truley, Vosilier:

Vosiler wrote:

so go get a dev to try and correct me as im pretty sure you dont have a clue but now ill be the bigger man and stop posting as you clearly have a problem with me. Good Game

Indeed, I own <3

SOOOoooo, back on topic: Well, I've already stated in earlier posts what's there to correct, didn't I? Read plz.

Edit: Had to emphasize (bold) the obvious.

Edit2: Also I'm sure you've tested your initative and Desperation. However, since it's clear that you have no idea how it works, your tests were in vain.

**exsuscito**

Vosiler wrote:

Vast chasms of delusion and nonsensical rants based on nothing but some 'wins' pressing some buttons and walking around Mara C in /mood cocky, whilst backing away from the stated point slowly as an act of self-affirmation.

Croesis · 10/09/2008 09:04:50

Vosiler wrote:

actually no as you have no idea for certain if its true or not so players cant. and every ma that uses desp at the start with me gets their Butt (again filter) handed back to them. i am ma and i can say im a very good one also many wont like it but thats fact, and i gave an example 50% vs 100% of this to make a point if you are both at 20% health desp has the same effect as if you were both 100% thats tested so go get a dev to try and correct me as im pretty sure you dont have a clue but now ill be the bigger man and stop posting as you clearly have a problem with me. Good Game

/tsktsk...

Vosiler (previously) wrote:

i wont reply to anymore posts dissagreeing with me unless its a dev correction then ill edit

/shakehead

PROTIP: cite your sources or show evidence, else don't claim your opinions as fact. So if you won't take it from GG, how about from 9mmfu himself?

9mmfu wrote:

Initiative only works, currently, when the Desperation ability is running. I will use my Engine and Turbo Charger analogy here as it seems to have worked before.
Initiative currently adds to your Acc for interlock special abilities when active.
Initiative currently is only available from the Desperation ability.
Initiative is your engine.
Initiative Bonus is your Turbo Charger which does nothing if your engine is not running.
On a side note please be aware that even if your Acc was 500, you could still roll a 1 on your To Hit roll for the round. Not very likely but its still possible, if just improbable.

**Yasamuu**

Vosiler wrote:

Yasamuu wrote:
Vosiler wrote:
Vinia wrote:
Yasamuu wrote:
Vinia wrote:
I thought Initiative only kicks in when desperation is used.
DING DING DING

We have a winner!
Yay Me!

actually no it kicks in when you have much lower health so 50% vs 100% the 50% will have better rolls untill the health is about equal desp only makes a difference when you have less than 50% health as the lower health you get the more Initiative you get (only slightly more) but its mostly about how much health you have,
Also unless a dev wants to correct me how many people are attacking you.

anyway ive said my opinion and i dont want to argue over it i accept certain people will never agree with me and thats fine but id rather not keep going on about it. so i wont reply to anymore posts dissagreeing with me unless its a dev correction then ill edit
Actually, it's more effective when you have much lower than half health but if you use it from the start it also has some effect effect. I've seen MA's use that technique to decent effect to try and end a duel quickly.

Players can correct you if you're wrong, we don't need a dev to waste their time doing so.
actually no as you have no idea for certain if its true or not so players cant. and every ma that uses desp at the start with me gets their Butt (again filter) handed back to them. i am ma and i can say im a very good one also many wont like it but thats fact, and i gave an example 50% vs 100% of this to make a point if you are both at 20% health desp has the same effect as if you were both 100% thats tested so go get a dev to try and correct me as im pretty sure you dont have a clue but now ill be the bigger man and stop posting as you clearly have a problem with me. Good Game

I've not got a problem with you at all. I don't see what gave you that impression. I don't recall me making any posts saying 'good game' or 'some people will never agree with me' to make this discussion sound remotely like it's centered around a 'problem' i have with you. It's a debate/discussion, nothing more.

Desperation actually has a different effect when your health is lower. Here it is when your health is higher:

and here it is on low health

Looks different to me /shrug.

Can we get back on topic now?

**Roukan**

KanoR wrote:

Vinia wrote:
KanoR wrote:
Vinia wrote:
KanoR wrote:
Multi-fighting should go back to how it was supposed to be.
What? Massively buggy?
you are can reads.

Supposed to be.

In theory, it would of been amazing.
If the company who made the game couldn't sort out the issues with it, do you think that the two-three Dev's we have now can do better?
And yes, I caught the quote button moments after your edit, so what I read and what ended up being quoted was different.
Yeah, it was massively buggy when it was in use. It still was awesome in theory.

It was awesome even though it was buggy. If only you could actually switch targets without messing the entire thing up. What I pictured multi-fighting to be when I first entered beta was special attacks I could do randomly hitting everyone attacking me.

**Denary**

While I can't say that I'm a great PvP addict, I would much rather fight the lone level 50 in a 1 on 1 situation rather than fight a mass hoard of the zerg on my tod. I must say that I think there's a reason to the 1 Hyper defense situation. It just means you have to think about who can do the most damage in the situation you're in and to try to add a certain amount of complexity to the combat system. Unlike other games the game is more based on 30% build, 20% tactics relating to that build and (unfortunately) 50% spamming of buttons in and out of IL, and a certain unnamed percentage which relates to a certain exploit which people think is just another tactic of the game.

Currently the combat system is majorly uninteresting and I think as much complexity and difficulty we can add to the system will make a more interesting combat system. As it happens we all have the same potential ingame therefore thinking that you should be able to beat 2 on 1's all the time and win the majority of the time is just, well maybe you should be polishing your ego instead of replying to this thread.

At the end of the day when fighting a 2 on 1 the best defense is to call in for support because the 2 opponents you're facing should and do have the exact same potential as you and if there is any update it's not just going to be you but everyone ingame who gets this advantage.

As far as I'm concerned I'm not fussed. as I stated before I don't have any wish to go into multiple combat with more than 2 people at the same time and even then it's a bit of a stretch for me to do that SMILEY

So I guess I'm saying thats my opinion.

(Except my gripe bout people who think it's their holy right to be able to win against a zerg, You want that go play Enter the Matrix the code for invincibility is 7F4DF451.)

**The_Bruceter**

This got pushed back to the 2nd page so just a bump.

Still think the combat system needs 2 hypers.

Let me try and put it this way, what do yous do when its 2 v 1 and the 2 is a gunner and mkt? As far as i know, defense clothing doesn't match up to the defense of a hyper. So then your saying, bump up you res. Now what about 3 diff trees ganking?

I tend to pvp solo against zergs quite frequent and all you really can do is slam on alot of acc and hope for the best (i.e. no stuns, powerless etc hitting.) And i just don't think pvp should be like this when its outnumbered.

Constantly changing hyper in a fight tends to not be that good either. As soon as you change it to one that isn't who your in interlock with, EVERY roll they do should go through... and changing hyper isn't a guarantee that the other hitting into interlock is going to miss.

Would like a dev to post in this to see if it is possible or not (well we all know it is...)

Croesis

How far will this go? As you say, 2 hypers running will give some form of increased defence against 2 different trees zerging but what happens when a third joins in? Same result as a 2v1. While I'd like there to be another Hyper running alongside (not restricted to deflect as it used to be) I can understand why there should be only one, and yes it's an RP reason, but it's pretty much the same reason why I feel HJ should be nerfed or reduced to a certain number (so that lower levels won't feel the effect until they're a higher level) when in a combat stance. A person can only focus their mind so much, concentrate on something so much that their situational awareness gets limited which means that other abilities would be affected.

In fact if it had been supported in the game's code I would have suggested that you could run all four at the same time but each one's defence score divided into the humber of hypers running at the time. Of course not being a very dynamic system, you'd have to refresh them all when you change it. /shrug