See less support from your so called brothers and sisters as I feel that you, EPN are using us Zionites (JB) to get what you need. It seem as though EPN don't mind stepping on others for what they need, with examples of bluepill deaths and the odd code bomb with no regards for their 'fellow man'.

Whether the comment was in jest of Arch or not, it is not taken lightly by true crusaders of the truth.

Good luck, you'll more then likely need it.

Your feelings and beliefs are of course your prerogative, soldier.

However, I will reiterate that the pluribus has done more to help Zion survive and retain it's assets than anyone else in this war. Not to mention that there are many in the Zion military that distanced themselves from us and called us out as truce-breakers long before this war hit a head again. Furthermore, I would have expected more than petty accusations of code-bomb useage and willfully killing bluepills from a captain and leader in Zion's ranks. We DON'T use codebombs, and since the Machines found out about Zion's new home, you all have gone to some of the same lengths that we have to end this fight.

A simple answer to your question is yes - In my opinion, Zion needs us and we need them, even if some of us on either side don't acknowledge it at times.

I think that any group made of men endure these types of stresses at times. I wouldn't be too quick to declare an all-out schism between Zion and the Pluribus, just like I wouldn't do so with the Cypherites and Machinists - though I've seen many on the machine-aligned end bickering and even working against each other in some instances for longer than we have.

While I can agree that a difference in opinion or policy or philosophy are not usually things that strengthen both groups, differences are necessary in some instances. Words from a few operatives will not deter the Pluribus from helping Zion, just as a remark that was in jest will not deter Zion as a whole from working with us. It is in our best interest, as we have common goals and common enemies. It doesn't necessarily mean that we will always get along and see things the same way, though.

As this isn't a situation where overt Machinists would even see the walls of Zion, I also wouldn't declare (as a Machinist)what the people of Zion think as far as the means to end this war. I do believe, however that the majority of us, Pluribus or Zion, understand that going out and rebuilding "peace" with the Machines is far from being as easy as it is described in the previous statement - it just isn't that simple. I'm not sure about individual Machinists, but Agents and the rest of the system don't negotiate with us "terrorists", Zion included.

Who said we didn't like the idea of peace? I have stated here and in the Matrix on many channels and with people of all the organizations that I want peace. I represent the ideology of Michael and Shimada when I speak, and I did so with full confidence. But as I have said earlier, a few Machinists may see the need to talk and come to an agreement, but the Machines themselves don't, and nothing is really going to change until that does.

I can't speak for some of the other officers and the leaders of Zion, but Michael admitted there are differences, Pentothal did, and so have I. None of us denied that there isn't, or suggested otherwise.

However, the more important issue in all this is whatever Halborn is after, he can't be allowed to get, and all those involved, Pluribus and Zion, did a fine job in protecting our resources.

Who said we didn't like the idea of peace? I have stated here and in the Matrix on many channels and with people of all the organizations that I want peace. I represent the ideology of Michael and Shimada when I speak, and I did so with full confidence. But as I have said earlier, a few Machinists may see the need to talk and come to an agreement, but the Machines themselves don't, and nothing is really going to change until that does.

I can't speak for some of the other officers and the leaders of Zion, but Michael admitted there are differences, Pentothal did, and so have I. None of us denied that there isn't, or suggested otherwise.

However, the more important issue in all this is whatever Halborn is after, he can't be allowed to get, and all those involved, Pluribus and Zion, did a fine job in protecting our resources.

Zion and EPN are two entirely different entities. This is true. Argue all you want, it's the truth, and there's just nothing more to it. They split from us, and we did not share a common goal until the war began.

If you want to point fingers at the coincidance of goals between Zion and EPN, you can point them at the Machines.

Many Zion captains such as myself greatly opposed the rise of EPN simply because we knew that everyone would point fingers and claim that they were secretly funded and supported by Zion when they were not, and that this would undermine the Truce agreement. Much like the Cypherites, except that (they were and are sponsored by the machines and) we knew that the Machines, Machinists, and Cypherites wouldn't believe us, even if they had no proof to the contrary and we told them there was no relation. There's really no way for us to disown them because they were the ones who disowned us, they split off from us quite a while ago.

I'll be the first to say that EPN has lent a great hand in this war, and that I wouldn't want to see them forgotten in the future. I acknowledge and respect them as comrades in this war and would oppose any sort of peace agreement which did not take their opinions into consideration.

Well that's odd... EPN would like peace. The only way I've ever heard EPN wanting peace with the Machines is either with them being destroyed or returned to Mankind's servants. EPN operated outside the truce, being disavowed by the Council, not a sign of wanting peace is it? Free Humanity is one of the main goals of EPN is it not? Without Humankind the Machines will die, no matter what spin you put on it. If you want peace what are you fighting for?

Funny how it's always the Machines that are reluctant to talk, I've not heard anything about the Zion council requesting a meeting be held about steps to a truce with Machine representatives let alone EPN doing anything like that. The Machines have been convinced before about a truce, true it was exceptional circumstances, but they listened. I'm not even gonna assume what the deal is with Halborn's and Carlyne's colony and the Machines.

I would be truly happy if you, personally, really did want peace with the Machines, as that idea may spread through the rest of EPN, but I doubt it.

Then you have talked to very few true members of EPN and only foolish zealots. My fleet all shares the same belief that while we are currently at war the only way for peace to truly be achieved is for everyone to stand on equal ground. Genocide of any sentient being is not a option but some sacrifices have to be made until people are willing to come to this agreement (and I speak not only of Machine sacrifice) but not that bastardization of the "peace" called the "truce" but actual peace. EPN did what it did during the truce for that very reason. Man-kind was still being oppressed and controlled when we were promised freedom and what was worse is that many under that control were never allowed the chance to say differently or even allowed to know it existed.

And your one to talk about spinning when you yourself just spun our own goal. Never have we wanted everyone to be free, this creates to many problems one of which you pointed out, our goal has always been to give everyone the choice of freedom and then freedom itself. Something the Machine only gave the special few the chance to do.

And we would all love to talk but your terms as of now suck. Especially when you go and destroy the very city you were asking Zion to return to.

I admire Neoteny's honesty and people that understand like him make working with Zion completely worth it.

I think that there is a lot that you still have to learn about us yet, Vinia. I've been available to speak with operatives and representatives from other organizations and I will remain that way if there are any further questions.

The road to peace is a long one and the truce was a vehicle. The Machines did not trust Humanity and rightly so considering what it tried to do to them in the beginning so yeah the terms of the truce which were stacked in the Machines favour didn't give much to Mankind to begin with. The Architect didn't promise freedom, not to everyone. He said that those who want out i.e. those who didn't accept the simulation could be freed. The truce was a means to built trust over time between Machines and Humans to so Mankind could gain better terms and eventually end up at peace, but it wasn't appreciated, Mankind was impatient.

If genocide of an intelligent race isn't an option, why did EPN plan to bomb or disrupt the power lines heading to the Machine city?

The terms for talking may not have been in your favour but they were still offered by the Machines something which Zion and EPN have yet to do, no counter terms were offered to the Machines, there was no attempt at negotiation. I wonder if you'd have taken those terms if the Machines had gotten past New Zion's defences?

And how can you allow everyone that wants out to be let out when you only allow 1% of those inside the simulation the chance to choose? That's what it all came down to. Zion didn't worry about this but some couldn't stand to see such a blatant display of perversion to Neo's intended vision. And why so quick to judge Zion when their inpatients was sparked by Machine invasion by the means of the Cypherites?

EPN's plan to attack the power-lines was one of those sacrifices i mentioned. We are at war after all and you can't expect attempts at your enemies jugular to go unanswered. The strike on the power-lines was during a time when the Machine was in full press against Zion and removing a source of power is logical to slow down an oncoming threat is it not? The attack was not an attempt to destory the Machine, only slow it down.

Lastly Zion has made attempts. On the Recursion instance there have been a number of meetings between the two orgs to try and push towards peace. But its hard to make counter terms with bullets being fired at you until you agree to the only one given. The Machine has made it clear that the only terms they are going to accept are there own and that is the removal of Zion from New Zion. But to answer your question no, Zion has never been interested in pity bargains.

I have a question.  I'm not sure if anyone will be able to answer it, or if they'll want to answer it, but I am curious. 

Now that there is no truce, and the Machines are at war with Zion (and EPN), how do the Zion and EPN organizations differ?  There was a time when Zion abided by the truce and EPN didn't...now that there is no truce, is there any real difference?

Illyria