On another threadHCFrog wrote:hmmmm I'm thinking this one over, about what the rolls would be to make it come out like that... hmmmm I'll have to get back to you on this one. It does kind of present an interesting situation when you think through it.Cause basically in IL, a hacker casting a hack uses their Viral Accuracy vs. your Viral Defense, and if you're MA, your VD will be way better than in live, but not as good as a hacker's viral defense and accuracy. They have a better chance of hitting you, and every time they hit with a special and you're not using a special, your move won't go through because specials trump everything else (which is why Walrus always says "zero-sum combat isn't completely gone..." so hackers definitely are more powerful in IL than they were before.I think they were meant to be better in IL with CR2; but they might be turning out too much better. Since their attacks got the IS costs reduced recently, they now might be able to use them more repeatedly than an MA or gunman... verrrrry interesting.
From what I have seen it seems that hackers can do a theorically infinite combo of specials (as long as they keep outrolling you. And that is very likely). I think that it must be impossible for every class in this game to cast two specials - of any kind or tree, even special from different trees - back to back, to avoid interlock to become once again zero sum special move spam combat, even if now it's not impossible to break such "combos" since the wider range of accuracy rolls.
Hackers in QA are now very powerful outside interlock - I don't have nothing against this- but they can't be powerful inside interlock too. This makes the combat even more unbalanced than in the past.
In the last weeks I played extensively in the QA server, and I noticed how repeating a set of specials back to back makes it very hard for your foe to cast specials, since a failed one results one round reuse timer for every special; an hacker can use a logic barrage 4.0 -> logic blast 3.0 loop almost forever with very little IS loss, and his foe can only try to break that once every 2 turns (as i said blocking this loop is not impossible, but hackers can do an average of 3 consequent hacks, one turn where they lose, and then start another hack loop!). In this way a Special Move Spammer once he hits his foe with one special is 90% sure to hit again with a special in the following turn! I repeatedly hit 9mmfu with a loop of specials from kung fu (since i believe this is not a correct behavior for the game i don't think this is cool) to make him see what i mean.
Moreover hackers have a disgusting accuracy. Upgrade attacks gives +65pts (of course, counting the influences i got a revolting +108 just from this buff!) of accuracy for 80 seconds! that explains why trying to counter an hack with a special in interlock is very hard for every class! Just make it last 16 seconds (four interlock turns) with a 80 seconds reuse timer and it's fine!
As i said before, making an universal reuse timer for one turn for every family of attack, and removing the universal reuse timer after a failed move should be enough to stop the high tendency to become one sided of the current cr2.0 interlock combat.Realistically Casting an hack in interlock isn't as easy as it is outside, so hackers IMO should have a 2 turns timer for every tree after a successful hack.In particular, regarding the removal of reuse timers after a failed special, I would add that giving another disadvantage to a player who just lost his previus special isn't just, and removes the point of having moves that give your foe one turn of Powerless or stun state: whats the point of preventing your foe from doing specials for one turn (well some special can reach 2 turns) if he cannot do them anyway?A spy must beat an hacker in interlock, they are operatives after all.
Making hackers the must powerful class outside interlock is fine, but once inside they must be as harmless as they are powerful outside interlock: that is to say, they must do insignificant damage.Obviusly what i said does not apply to FM and UM, since they are supposed to be interlock classes (but the must not do a lot of dmg, since devs said that they are supposed to be tanks not damage dealers).Ready for your opinions, F2B.
TheTaxidermist wrote:Less frequent use would make special moves a bit more... special but then all hackers are is special moves, if you make it too long then the DPS will have to be raised, meaning the hacks do more damage, which doesnt play well in a zerg situation. :sUnless perhaps, if a free fire weapon was made for hackers. Something like logic barrage being an item in your inventory that you could equip into the weapon slot,that gave a non-special but viral free fire attack... hmm. I'm going to go post that in development roundtable.But on the main subject, I agree. longer timers, or every ability being on the same 'family' of timers.
In my opinion the reuse timers are only needed in interlock. I think hackers are very well implemented as they are now, of course until they remain outside interlock.
this must be what is happening to me I know that I have done doezens of duels and of late noticed that in many fights I can't get a hit in edge-wise. knowing that I have better iniative than my opponent, similar accuracy and stil I loose 9/10 special attacks, waste IS and get nothing accomplished. Very frustrating to be spammed with with specials, especially specials that shouldn't be useable in succession, but it's still happeneing.
This issues absolutely must be addressed prior to launch. Abusive players will take advantage of such situations and SOE has already neglected to punish anyone for anything other than fowl language. Like I have said inthe past, CR2.0 will either make or break this game. It's small glitches like these that will make this the downfall in the end.
So I beg...
Devs please remove failed re-use timers and IS drain, and absolutely prevent the spaming of associated special attacks.
-Jilted
And of course this wil get burried in countless other threads and never gett seen by anyone that matters.
Why do I even bother...
Jilted_1 wrote:And of course this wil get burried in countless other threads and never gett seen by anyone that matters.Why do I even bother...
HCFrog wrote:Yes it's been seen Sorry I can't comment more because I don't know what exactly we're going to do with this, just wanted you to know we've seen it.
I appologize for my negativity. I've had better days than today if you know what I mean.