GamiSB wrote:
Signs wrote:This is what is supposed to happen. The One's code is not supposed to return in the form of another until the system is reset, but in the Matrix, as we all should know very well by now, a lot of things happen that aren't supposed to happen. Because of what Neo did, the Matrix has entered entirely new territory, and I doubt anyone can really predict all that might happen next. Also, in "The Matrix: Revolutions," the Oracle implied that the Architect's analytical perspective was inherently limited, and that he is thus not as omniscient as he likes to let on. The Architect is not the final authority on what is possible in the Matrix. According to the Architect, what Neo did should not have been possible. Your theory depends heavily on an "if" scenario, one that has no cause or reason to bring it about.Also you’re confusing the authorities of the Architect and the Oracle. The Architect is the end all knows all of the Matrix. He knows exactly what can and can't happen within its programming and what will cause which reaction. However he is limited by numbers and can never accurately predict what actions a person might take, this is the Oracles realm. In other words he knows all the options and outcomes of each but never which a person might take.Also what he says to Neo in Reloaded is if anything a bluff on his own part to attempt at changing Neo's mind about which door he was going to take. As we discovered in MxO’s story the Machines are barely surviving off the Matrix as is and had Neo failed it was game over for everyone human or machine. There is no other level of survival left for the Machines which Neo knew and called his bluff on it.
Signs wrote:
This is what is supposed to happen. The One's code is not supposed to return in the form of another until the system is reset, but in the Matrix, as we all should know very well by now, a lot of things happen that aren't supposed to happen. Because of what Neo did, the Matrix has entered entirely new territory, and I doubt anyone can really predict all that might happen next. Also, in "The Matrix: Revolutions," the Oracle implied that the Architect's analytical perspective was inherently limited, and that he is thus not as omniscient as he likes to let on. The Architect is not the final authority on what is possible in the Matrix. According to the Architect, what Neo did should not have been possible.
Your theory depends heavily on an "if" scenario, one that has no cause or reason to bring it about.
Also you’re confusing the authorities of the Architect and the Oracle. The Architect is the end all knows all of the Matrix. He knows exactly what can and can't happen within its programming and what will cause which reaction. However he is limited by numbers and can never accurately predict what actions a person might take, this is the Oracles realm. In other words he knows all the options and outcomes of each but never which a person might take.
Also what he says to Neo in Reloaded is if anything a bluff on his own part to attempt at changing Neo's mind about which door he was going to take. As we discovered in MxO’s story the Machines are barely surviving off the Matrix as is and had Neo failed it was game over for everyone human or machine. There is no other level of survival left for the Machines which Neo knew and called his bluff on it.
You're assuming you've been presented with all relevant information. It's true, the Architect knowledge relates specifically to the structure of the simulation, and the Oracle's knowledge relates to the human mind (and soul, potentially), but the Matrix consists of both the simulation and the mind, they are inextricable from each other. And I think it's an important point that our knowledge of the Machines, from whatever perspective it comes in a particular instance, comes mostly from a perspective of being within the Matrix, and the model of the Machines presented in the Matrix is just that: a model. It's what the Machines "think" we can comprehend, based on our own actions as human beings. Simply put, we really don't know what goes on in the Source, and because the nature of The One, like all things in the Matrix originates from the Source and inevitably returns to the Source, we really don't know where it might turn up next, or even what it ultimately is. We get perspectives on the nature of The One, it's a statistical anomaly, it's a state of self-knowledge, it's a spiritual rite, etc. But these are merely interpretations of what is ultimately ungraspable. As the nature of The One is essential to the nature of the Matrix itself, I think it would be bad storytelling NOT to bring the concept back to the forefront of the meta-narrative, in some form, eventually. Granted, this was not the focus of Matrix Online, and this was a good thing, but if another chapter in the Matrix series is ever created, it will have to deal with what becomes of The One, because this idea is so central to the nature of the story.
As for the code of "The One", this is what The Architect said.
The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
Which kinda leads me to believe that the codes of the one are a remainder of the calculation of The Matrix. Since those calculations are still going on, what's happening to the remainders? Are they just piling up somewhere?
Sarah Edmontons is an anagram for Thomas Anderson. I'm sure that's just coincidence though, right?
Just throwing that out there.
I dunno, I always took the voice clip of someone saying "Some may have guessed that Neo's new persona is female" as a pretty rigid definition of what Edmontons was supposed to be.
We were given all the information, skepticism only goes as far as "if's" and unless you can show any hole there is no reason to think there is something we don't know. The Architect had no reason to lie to Neo or hide anything from Neo about his purpose and reason for being. With the combination of info given by the Oracle and Architect we learn exactly what is involved with "The One" program and what created it and it's purpose.
And while the Matrix is a combination of mind and simulation this doesn't prove any lack of knowledge on the Architects part. As I said he knows all possible causes and effects, he just can't predict which one a person will choose. Secondly our knowledge of the Source and machine thought is irrelevant. The Architect knows exactly what happens and tells us exactly what happens. The One inserts the code he carries into the program which resets the simulation. That program he carries is a onetime deal that is created within the Matrix and inserted into a person of their choice.
Which brings us back to square one, the program Neo carried is gone as he died before it could be uploaded. This was even confirmed by both Agent Gray and Pace. Meaning the only thing that could bring about another "One" is gone forever.
Bayamos wrote:
Was this one ever ingame though? I remember seeing it in the game files but never ingame.
Bayamos wrote:I dunno, I always took the voice clip of someone saying "Some may have guessed that Neo's new persona is female" as a pretty rigid definition of what Edmontons was supposed to be.Was this one ever ingame though? I remember seeing it in the game files but never ingame.
Yes and which character says this? I ripped out all the audio files but I havent had a chance to listen to them all yet.
You guys, the story was loosely defined to begin with. Chadwick made up a bunch of stuff that never went anywhere because it was either never intended to or they didn't get around to it. Then Rarebit made things worse by making up his own stuff. It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense.
I honestly would say to completely disregard anything after the first 2 years, especially anything that came after the cinematics stopped being rendered with the in-game engine. The months the game was with Monolith is the only time things were going completely as planned with the story.
But to be truthful, in the future for any new movies, games, or comics, the entirety of The Matrix Online's story will likely be completely disregarded and ignored. Make your own peace with what happened, but there's no way to figure much of any "canonical" events with this story, besides the very beginning with Morpheus and the search for Neo and the truce and all of us as new redpills.
Foxxdie wrote:
It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense.
Examples?
Villemar_MxO wrote:
GamiSB wrote:Bayamos wrote:I dunno, I always took the voice clip of someone saying "Some may have guessed that Neo's new persona is female" as a pretty rigid definition of what Edmontons was supposed to be.Was this one ever ingame though? I remember seeing it in the game files but never ingame.Yes and which character says this? I ripped out all the audio files but I havent had a chance to listen to them all yet.
Morpheus said this in both his initial meeting at the beginning of the "Hunt for Morpheus" event, and in an audio document found in the 1.3 missions (seen at the top of the page in that link).
Othinn1 wrote:
Foxxdie wrote:It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense. Examples?
I refer you to everything after the cinematics stopped. Take care.
Othinn1 wrote:Foxxdie wrote:It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense. Examples?I refer you to everything after the cinematics stopped. Take care.
*shrugs*
Signs wrote:You're assuming you've been presented with all relevant information. It's true, the Architect knowledge relates specifically to the structure of the simulation, and the Oracle's knowledge relates to the human mind (and soul, potentially), but the Matrix consists of both the simulation and the mind, they are inextricable from each other. And I think it's an important point that our knowledge of the Machines, from whatever perspective it comes in a particular instance, comes mostly from a perspective of being within the Matrix, and the model of the Machines presented in the Matrix is just that: a model. It's what the Machines "think" we can comprehend, based on our own actions as human beings. Simply put, we really don't know what goes on in the Source, and because the nature of The One, like all things in the Matrix originates from the Source and inevitably returns to the Source, we really don't know where it might turn up next, or even what it ultimately is. We get perspectives on the nature of The One, it's a statistical anomaly, it's a state of self-knowledge, it's a spiritual rite, etc. But these are merely interpretations of what is ultimately ungraspable. As the nature of The One is essential to the nature of the Matrix itself, I think it would be bad storytelling NOT to bring the concept back to the forefront of the meta-narrative, in some form, eventually. Granted, this was not the focus of Matrix Online, and this was a good thing, but if another chapter in the Matrix series is ever created, it will have to deal with what becomes of The One, because this idea is so central to the nature of the story. We were given all the information, skepticism only goes as far as "if's" and unless you can show any hole there is no reason to think there is something we don't know. The Architect had no reason to lie to Neo or hide anything from Neo about his purpose and reason for being. With the combination of info given by the Oracle and Architect we learn exactly what is involved with "The One" program and what created it and it's purpose.And while the Matrix is a combination of mind and simulation this doesn't prove any lack of knowledge on the Architects part. As I said he knows all possible causes and effects, he just can't predict which one a person will choose. Secondly our knowledge of the Source and machine thought is irrelevant. The Architect knows exactly what happens and tells us exactly what happens. The One inserts the code he carries into the program which resets the simulation. That program he carries is a onetime deal that is created within the Matrix and inserted into a person of their choice.Which brings us back to square one, the program Neo carried is gone as he died before it could be uploaded. This was even confirmed by both Agent Gray and Pace. Meaning the only thing that could bring about another "One" is gone forever.
All I can say is, presented with the exact same information you have, I have come to radically different conclusions about what the Matrix is. One of the great things about the Matrix meta-narrative is that it is open to a wide variety of interpretations, and it will be interesting to see where the future takes it. I say it "will" be interesting and not it "may" or "might" be interesting because I'll be damned if the Matrix ever fades slowly in the dark while I'm still here.
Just to be clear, though, I don't think the Architect was being deceptive at any point (I don't think he's capable of it). I think that his perspective is more limited than he cares to admit to himself. He (along with the Oracle) is a construction of infinitely complex Machines for the purpose with dealing with humans, beings who are much more finite and limited in nature. The Architect, the Oracle, the Agents... none of them are given all the information. They are the middlemen. The closest we have to the word directly from the Source (literally) about what the Matrix is came with Neo's encounter with Deus Ex Machina, who said, "We don't need you! We need nothing!" and asks, "What do you want?"
Foxxdie wrote:Othinn1 wrote:Foxxdie wrote:It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense. Examples?I refer you to everything after the cinematics stopped. Take care. *shrugs*
In regards to this, aside from the Unlimit arc, I'm quite satisfied with the storyline from 1.1 to 8.3. 9.1 and beyond dragged out far too long and to me seemed to meander off into jump the shark land by 12.1. Although had Rare been able to make it through to the end of Chapter 14, I think it might have resolved itself satisfyingly. Chapter 15 on I cant even concieve of
