[8.1.2] This war is their doing - Recursion - 7/25/07

**Crowlos**

That was the worst analogy to compare this situation to, Japan openly attacked the US....... and then we went to war with them.So you pretty much just said that the machines attacked first so we wouldn't attack first? You guys really need to stop bringing up human history into this and just stick to the reality of what is going on now.

**Illyria22**

The analogy is sound; both Japan and Zion did something they knew would be construed as hostile by a foreign government. And of course human history should be brought up -- we don't exist in a vacuum with no knowledge of what our species has done in the past. Human history has shown how badly us humans can treat our environment, other species (not just the Machines), and our own species. Human history provides a basis for anticipating what humans might do in the future.

Illyria

**Neoteny**

Illyria22 wrote:

The analogy is sound; both Japan and Zion did something they knew would be construed as hostile by a foreign government. And of course human history should be brought up -- we don't exist in a vacuum with no knowledge of what our species has done in the past. Human history has shown how badly us humans can treat our environment, other species (not just the Machines), and our own species. Human history provides a basis for anticipating what humans might do in the future.

Illyria

There is a fundamental difference.

The US did not declare war on Japan when they found out that they were an Axis member with bombers capable of striking the Pacific US. They declared war when Japan used them in an attack on the US.

The Machines called a Pre-Emptive strike. They attacked before we did a thing, because they feared that we might develop technology with which to attack. I'm still waiting for Zion's great assault on the Machine city, by the way.

**Pyraci**

Amen.

**Croesis**

Neoteny wrote:

I'm still waiting for Zion's great assault on the Machine city, by the way.

I doubt that Zion would assault 01 in a full on attack, even before the revelation of a new city. Now that the Machines have the knowledge of this base, their defences would be even better. I suspect that Zion will go for something relatively minor, or seemingly insignificant at the time. Most likely a plan involving the Simulation, something that may not affect the Bluepills.
It is possible that now the build has been revealed, Zion may opt to abandon its plans and do nothing. This would have the bonus of having all exiles and programs on their side plus possibly sowing the seed of dissent amongst the Machines about the aggressiveness of 01. Well we'll have to wait and see what Niobe or Ghost do next or even what the EPN do to make educated guesses.

**Illyria22**

Neoteny wrote:

The Machines called a Pre-Emptive strike. They attacked before we did a thing, because they feared that we might develop technology with which to attack.

You forget that the Machines haven't attacked Zion.

Yet.

Illyria

ReProgrammed

Dark_Rider wrote:

Croesus wrote:
MetaDisc wrote:
A few shots of Pace...and myself, ReProgrammed......Not to mention a good shot of us taking down some zionite....And the shot of her checking me out. XD

I can understand if you post some of your own screenshots, or just a single shot if your argument requires it, but why re-post multiple screenshots from the initial post? If you really feel the need to, why don't you just post direct links the the images you are posting about?

Guess it requires more movement of the hand and fingers, which might strain people reading these treads, and besides, it would take a while to link the pictures one by one.

You're both wrong..I just wanted it to have "Agent Pace wrote:" on it.

**Crowlos**

Illyria22 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:
The Machines called a Pre-Emptive strike. They attacked before we did a thing, because they feared that we might develop technology with which to attack.

You forget that the Machines haven't attacked Zion.
Yet.

Illyria

Oh so the machines are not attacking yet? Then why even terminate the truce? Things would have been just fine without them doing so, now that's preemptive on their part.Let us have our new home, I mean the Machines only control the rest of the entire world.

**Croesis**

Crowlos wrote:

Illyria22 wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
The Machines called a Pre-Emptive strike. They attacked before we did a thing, because they feared that we might develop technology with which to attack.

You forget that the Machines haven't attacked Zion.
Yet.

Illyria
Oh so the machines are not attacking yet? Then why even terminate the truce? Things would have been just fine without them doing so, now that's preemptive on their part.Let us have our new home, I mean the Machines only control the rest of the entire world.

So you're saying that the Machines should maintain the truce while it appears that a known aggressor is gathering it's arms in a fortified base? Are you saying that the Machines should allow Zion to make the first move, a move that could cause massive loss of life?

The termination of the truce is preparation, preparation for an anticipated attack....

**Crowlos**

Since when has Zion been the known aggressor, they never have been and fortifying themselves to strike, are you serious, like I said this is about them regaining control that they lost.

**RemagDiv**

Crowlos wrote:

Since when has Zion been the known aggressor, they never have been and fortifying themselves to strike, are you serious, like I said this is about them regaining control that they lost.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did. The earth is only so deep, you cannot hide forever.

**ZaneZavin**

The Machines greatest mistake was honoring the truce in the first place. Humanity has become aware of the reality of the situation.

**GamiSB** · 07/30/2007 00:21:32

Illyria22 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:
The Machines called a Pre-Emptive strike. They attacked before we did a thing, because they feared that we might develop technology with which to attack.

You forget that the Machines haven't attacked Zion.
Yet.

Illyria

So that wasn't the Machines trying to take down a Zion uplink? That isn't them hunting down Zion opertives in Downtown, Westview, and International? Agent Pace and Gray haven't told you all to kill any Zion on sight if they fail to surrender?

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt sweetie.

**Croesis** · 07/30/2007 01:01:13

Crowlos wrote:

Since when has Zion been the known aggressor, they never have been and fortifying themselves to strike, are you serious, like I said this is about them regaining control that they lost.

Zion is a City populated by Humankind, Humankind took the first strike on 01 which started the war. Zion is also known to have illegally hacked into the Matrix, freeing minds etc... These are attacks on a system the the Machines and bluepills require to live, so yes Zion, it's history and its present show that it is the aggressor.

Are you seriously telling me that New Zion built those fortifications, equipped itself with numerous APC's and gawd knows what else, just in case the Machines happen to pass by? As I have said before making such defences are an indication that you expect an attack.

Humankind has made a base which can cause heavy losses to the Machines if they attempt to penetrate it, thus allowing any attacks on the simulation, the surface, unarmed Machine craft etc... with a place to run back to.

I don't see this as too far gone, the threat is real. I have often remarked that the Human race is resourceful and clever, but also stuck in their ways. It didn't take long for them to attack the Machines back at the dawn of AI, I don't think it'll take long for at least an element to attempt something now.

[Edit: Long winded passage about the origin of the war on 01, taken out because we all know how that started, and who started it]

**Tytanya_MxO**

Wow the machines certainly lack subtlety when Pace comes out with comments like that eh..... Good job Machine operatives undergo a rigorous testing process to ensure a complete absence of intellect otherwise they might actually be able to read between the lines.

Zion knows full well the consequences of their illegal real estate scam, but obviously had to procede because they haven't any idea what to do with peace once they have it anyways. Humanity's great representative prove the human race is probably overdue for extinction and thought it was time to give the idea a push!

Machines claim this is an act or war, of course their own attempt to circumvent the truce via the their Cypherite pawns already demonstrates their own contribution to 'acts of war' along with their total contempt of their redpill 'associates' (if there is a credible reason for a redpill to still work for these clowns it certainly struggles to make itself known).

So these mightly inept giants look set to go head to head and restart that very same merry go around that has crashed and burned so many times before.

Isn't progress wonderful.... if only there was a more competent organisation to take charge.... oh wait......