Take from it what you will, but this is definitely something to think about:
http://www.massively.com/2009/01/02...n-the-new-year/
I was sure disappointed in hitting 80 in two days in Age of Conan, but oh well. oh and the ! for quests npc reminded me of this wow fan made comic.
Certainly agree with #3 and #1. I certainly feel sometimes that I'm not levelling out of enjoyment in some MMOs, but just to get to (what I perceive as) the good stuff.
And I am definitely getting bored of quests which are essentially just XP boosts for grinding. Sure there maybe some small RP reason for killing 20 boars and harvesting them, but its still grinding. Surely there are other ways things to do quests on. I'm not against killing stuff. But there needs a big RP reason, or at least it being part of the story.
Very good article.. and some points there that MxO should be considering given the recent changes away from it's own unique beast and into exactly some of the pitfalls this article warns against. In particular:
#4 -- Grinding is not content. Content is content.The player needs to feel immersed and needs to feel that each time they log in, they're going to do something different.
MxO used to be like this. You could log in and find that an LE is going on. Even if these wasn't an LE going on, you could still have a unique experience RPing about the latest LEs. Even looking beyond the LEs, every week we'd get a critical mission that could potentially change the way you looked at the Matrix. Even if you'd already done the week's crit, you could still possibly see your liaison officer (or any liaison officer, if they were doing their job) and participate in some varying content that way. Now, we have a game that's static for 6 weeks at a time...
#3 -- Leveling content is more important than endgame content.And let no one tell you otherwise. If people aren't having fun straight out of the gate, then they're not going to stay the distance and get to your endgame.
Artificial brick walls keeping new players from accessing the little story content we have now? Check. A still borked difficulty curve upon hitting level 15? Check. PvP being limited to pretty much a 50s only game? Check. Not much point in going on, but I probably could...
#1 -- "Kill/Quest, Level" concept is a dead horse, get on with it already!The quest/kill, level, quest/kill model has been done and overdone. Gameplay needs to expand past this. Even reputation grinding is nothing more than the quest/kill to level system.
Once again, MxO used to be about more than just grinding levels and farming items... now? Not so much.
Shinryu wrote:
A still borked difficulty curve upon hitting level 15? Check.
You're referring to Westview? This is what International is for.
Pyraci wrote:
Take from it what you will, but this is definitely something to think about:http://www.massively.com/2009/01/02...n-the-new-year/
Wow. That's an amazing article. I hope that makes it to the MMORPG website.
Kybutra wrote:
hahaha!
But yeah, this article makes a lot of sense, and you guys are right. Especially with the level curve issue Shinryu raised. Frankly, there isn't much in store for sub-level 50 players in the way of PvP, and the meat of the "story" content is geared towards players 30+, when there hasn't been that much change for those that are just starting out.
I had a friend that started playing, and wanted to see if he could find help. He didn't want me to do everything for him because he wanted to see what the community was like. It was suggested that there was nothing for him to do until he was 50, and when he asked about what he could do once he got to 50, he was told to just sit in Mara and PvP. Needless to say, the guy gave up on the game before the trial was over, but I think these are things that can be worked on to persuade new players to stick around, at least for a while.
Cadsuane wrote:
Shinryu wrote:A still borked difficulty curve upon hitting level 15? Check. You're referring to Westview? This is what International is for.
Oh, absolutely. Problem is, I don't believe the game mentions International at all as a more viable option. You could conceivably outlevel International by only going to Westview and not even know Int is the better choice.
As I understand it, the game can't be set to actually put missions in Int once you hit a certain point because when you're in Richland/Westview Int basically doesn't exist as far as the game is concerned. Working around this limitation, they could at least direct you to the areas in Westview where a level 16 has a chance as opposed to where they could go before the difficulty reflow (which was how many years ago now?).
Problem is, I don't believe the game mentions International at all as a more viable option.
I believe you're right. Hopefuly Rarebit will mention it somewhere in the 'newbie tour' sequence once it gets on a bit further.
Working around this limitation, they could at least direct you to the areas in Westview where a level 16 has a chance as opposed to where they could go before the difficulty reflow (which was how many years ago now?).
The level of the Westview neighborhoods as read by the mission system was updated with the reflow those many years ago. It doesn't always work that well because the level climb is pretty steep over there (ranging from levels 15-29 or so), so you'll get into spots where you have to go to areas with mobs several levels higher than you; also, missions that try to send you to a specific type of building may send you somewhere well above your level in Westview, because when we make a building-specific setting like that, we can see how many mission areas it will work in, but we don't really have a way of seeing which neighborhoods they're in.
Good read.
Rarebit wrote:
Shinryu wrote:Working around this limitation, they could at least direct you to the areas in Westview where a level 16 has a chance as opposed to where they could go before the difficulty reflow (which was how many years ago now?).The level of the Westview neighborhoods as read by the mission system was updated with the reflow those many years ago. It doesn't always work that well because the level climb is pretty steep over there (ranging from levels 15-29 or so), so you'll get into spots where you have to go to areas with mobs several levels higher than you; also, missions that try to send you to a specific type of building may send you somewhere well above your level in Westview, because when we make a building-specific setting like that, we can see how many mission areas it will work in, but we don't really have a way of seeing which neighborhoods they're in.
Well, it seems anything but random to me.. your missions stick you into the Lucero area, which IIRC would have been a good starting place in the past. Difficulty flowed from North to South then, and so being placed into North Central Westview wasn't a terrible thing. A jump in difficulty, yes, but nothing like what we have now. It's also not likely due to building type, as I'm referring to random controller missions and not crits or arcs.. though perhaps building type is somehow an issue in standard missions as well. *shrug*Also, the level range is the same in International, it just starts lower and ends lower.. 11 to 25 I think? So it's still a 14 level range. The difficulty curve works well in RIchland, and would continue well into Westview if you were placed in the south end and not the north end upon first being sent there. Either way, of course, International is left out of the equation, which is an issue that should be rectified.. even if in a Level Up message mentioning being sent to Westview from now on and how exporing the city a little may let you find an easier path. Players don't need to have their hands held the whole way, but they should be pointed in the "right" direction.
Well, it seems anything but random to me.. your missions stick you into the Lucero area, which IIRC would have been a good starting place in the past. Difficulty flowed from North to South then, and so being placed into North Central Westview wasn't a terrible thing. A jump in difficulty, yes, but nothing like what we have now. It's also not likely due to building type, as I'm referring to random controller missions and not crits or arcs.. though perhaps building type is somehow an issue in standard missions as well. *shrug*
Also, the level range is the same in International, it just starts lower and ends lower.. 11 to 25 I think? So it's still a 14 level range.
The difficulty curve works well in RIchland, and would continue well into Westview if you were placed in the south end and not the north end upon first being sent there. Either way, of course, International is left out of the equation, which is an issue that should be rectified.. even if in a Level Up message mentioning being sent to Westview from now on and how exporing the city a little may let you find an easier path. Players don't need to have their hands held the whole way, but they should be pointed in the "right" direction.
Very good article.. and some points there that MxO should be considering given the recent changes away from it's own unique beast and into exactly some of the pitfalls this article warns against. In particular:#4 -- Grinding is not content. Content is content.The player needs to feel immersed and needs to feel that each time they log in, they're going to do something different. MxO used to be like this. You could log in and find that an LE is going on. Even if these wasn't an LE going on, you could still have a unique experience RPing about the latest LEs. Even looking beyond the LEs, every week we'd get a critical mission that could potentially change the way you looked at the Matrix. Even if you'd already done the week's crit, you could still possibly see your liaison officer (or any liaison officer, if they were doing their job) and participate in some varying content that way. Now, we have a game that's static for 6 weeks at a time...#3 -- Leveling content is more important than endgame content.And let no one tell you otherwise. If people aren't having fun straight out of the gate, then they're not going to stay the distance and get to your endgame.Artificial brick walls keeping new players from accessing the little story content we have now? Check. A still borked difficulty curve upon hitting level 15? Check. PvP being limited to pretty much a 50s only game? Check. Not much point in going on, but I probably could...#1 -- "Kill/Quest, Level" concept is a dead horse, get on with it already!The quest/kill, level, quest/kill model has been done and overdone. Gameplay needs to expand past this. Even reputation grinding is nothing more than the quest/kill to level system.Once again, MxO used to be about more than just grinding levels and farming items... now? Not so much.
What more can be said that the article hasn't said already, especially in regards to numbers 1,3, and 4; and even more especially in the great irony of applying what the author is saying to what has happened to MxO??
/mood sad
Well, it seems anything but random to me.. your missions stick you into the Lucero area, which IIRC would have been a good starting place in the past.
I've seen a few reports of that before, and looked into it before, and asked for more details before, but I haven't been able to reproduce it.
The neighborhood level settings for the mission system in Westview are (these are meant to correspond roughly to the lowest level street gang members in the neighborhood):
Sobra Shores: 15
Southard: 16
Gracy Heights: 17
Guinness Lake: 18
Rogers Way: 21
Manssen Park: 24
Lucero Point: 25
Bathary Row: 26
Stamos: 29
It's supposed to send you to the neighborhood rated closest to your level, although exactly how it settles on the best match, I'm not sure. When I checked this yesterday at level 20, it sent me to Rogers Way (rated at 21), so maybe it goes for the one that can accommodate the area type the mission asks for, and is closest to meeting your level rating, (without being below it?).
I would kind of like to see International as a part of the level progression, instead of how it is now where it lays outside of the progression.
Right now, most people go to International when levelling due to the lessened threat of gangs, and pretty much bypass Westview due to the difficulty. However, that really just applies to old players making new alts. Most of the new players in my faction weren't even aware that International exists, or how to get there, until we told them about it!
Options for levelling are great, but I think it would be better suited if International was part of the progression.
For example:
Richland: 1-14Westview: 15-25International: 26-35Downtown: 36-50
That way, the player is taken throughout the city in their quest to level up. Maybe a benefit for running missions in the appropriate district would give you an increased chance of gaining a rep point. Sure, at level 30 you could run missions in Richland for ease, but you'd stand a better chance of getting reputation with your organization if you ran them in International.
Just an idea.
