Croesus wrote:GamiSB wrote:1. Michael already dismissed the Matrix as being the weak spot. 2. We have never wanted to kill blues for any reason what so ever. 3. We are well aware of the fact that killing the Machines would kill blues. 4. He means what he says, that if a life has to be taken to shut down the Machine, we won't do it. 5. He saved us he saved them he saved the Matrix. <-- Core piece of EPN doctrine. Ok, so you know that shutting the Machines down will more than likely result in millions of bluepill deaths... yet you don't want to take any life to shut down the Machines... What are you trying to accomplish? True Peace.
GamiSB wrote:1. Michael already dismissed the Matrix as being the weak spot. 2. We have never wanted to kill blues for any reason what so ever. 3. We are well aware of the fact that killing the Machines would kill blues. 4. He means what he says, that if a life has to be taken to shut down the Machine, we won't do it. 5. He saved us he saved them he saved the Matrix. <-- Core piece of EPN doctrine. Ok, so you know that shutting the Machines down will more than likely result in millions of bluepill deaths... yet you don't want to take any life to shut down the Machines... What are you trying to accomplish?
1. Michael already dismissed the Matrix as being the weak spot. 2. We have never wanted to kill blues for any reason what so ever. 3. We are well aware of the fact that killing the Machines would kill blues. 4. He means what he says, that if a life has to be taken to shut down the Machine, we won't do it. 5. He saved us he saved them he saved the Matrix. <-- Core piece of EPN doctrine.
True Peace Eh? A noble cause to be sure, but true peace for who? Man? Man and Machine? Man, Machine and Program? It seems strange to me that you would attempt to gain peace by military routes rather than diplomacy. You cannot say the the plans that many EPN were putting forward were diplomatic...
Judging by your past history as a group, diplomacy seems to come second to direct and often destructive action.
A hand need to be put out, a message saying 'we will lay down our arms for peace'. Why not allow Humanity to take the ground this time rather than the Machines who attempted this at the United Nations so many years ago, show them that Mankind can evolve past its infantile prejudice, willing to put aside blame for the current situation? Or are you so caught up in attempting to attack the Machines that you are unwilling to entertain the idea of making the first move?
The only real way true peace between all of our races can be achieved is with trust and respect and cooperation but someone has set aside all grievances to make the first move...
Croesus wrote: If Zion didn't want a war, why violate the agreement and build a fortified base? Besides New Zion is a Violation of the agreement between Zion and The Machines, being able to attack then retreat to relative safety... Ummm... Have I missed receiving my copy of The Treaty? To what text do you refer when you state the terms of the agreement? Is it like the Magna Carta or The Bill of Rights? Can I visit Zero One as a tourist and pick up a print from the gift shop?Okay, I'm being flippant but the general point is valid...By definition, a truce is often informal and of a temporary nature. Now, I know that the Ark of Armaggedon delivers a Record of Pact, but I am not so sure that this is actually referring to the Zion/Machine truce. Is there some other document which I should be referring to? Since Neo was not in a position to negotiate terms after dealing with Smith, I doubt there has ever been a formalisation to the terms of Peace. Okay, there might have been a meeting between other parties: Please, feel free to clue me in.I don't want to repeat what will likely become a painfully common Zionite comment but, "building New Zion is a solely defensive act": The Truce has most likely been formed on a basis of agreeing mutual non-aggression. Whilst I am sure that no Machine would happily lose such a tactical advantage, the response to this recent development seems to be best described as "Sabre Rattling" or even "a temper tantrum".A Truce is not another term for Surrender. Zion would be stupid to miss an opportunity to struggle free from beneath the blade of The Machine's guillotine. The whole reason why exile programs exist is that The Machine's develop and delete the redundant or obselete. So how long before The Machines find an alternative fuel source and all Bluepills are no longer the best source of power? Without Bluepills, the simulation in which they live also has no purpose. Without The Matrix, what is the point of having a place to house those who reject the simulation?The Exiles find sanctuary in The Matrix. The ultimate example of this is The Merovingian's chateau which I understand to be impervious to the reset process. Are The Machines crying "foul!" at his pressumed immunity to their influence? So why is it that humans are to be regarded as a threat when they act similarly?
Croesus wrote:
If Zion didn't want a war, why violate the agreement and build a fortified base? Besides New Zion is a Violation of the agreement between Zion and The Machines, being able to attack then retreat to relative safety...
If Zion didn't want a war, why violate the agreement and build a fortified base?
Besides New Zion is a Violation of the agreement between Zion and The Machines, being able to attack then retreat to relative safety...
Ummm... Have I missed receiving my copy of The Treaty? To what text do you refer when you state the terms of the agreement? Is it like the Magna Carta or The Bill of Rights? Can I visit Zero One as a tourist and pick up a print from the gift shop?
Okay, I'm being flippant but the general point is valid...
By definition, a truce is often informal and of a temporary nature. Now, I know that the Ark of Armaggedon delivers a Record of Pact, but I am not so sure that this is actually referring to the Zion/Machine truce. Is there some other document which I should be referring to? Since Neo was not in a position to negotiate terms after dealing with Smith, I doubt there has ever been a formalisation to the terms of Peace. Okay, there might have been a meeting between other parties: Please, feel free to clue me in.
I don't want to repeat what will likely become a painfully common Zionite comment but, "building New Zion is a solely defensive act": The Truce has most likely been formed on a basis of agreeing mutual non-aggression. Whilst I am sure that no Machine would happily lose such a tactical advantage, the response to this recent development seems to be best described as "Sabre Rattling" or even "a temper tantrum".
A Truce is not another term for Surrender. Zion would be stupid to miss an opportunity to struggle free from beneath the blade of The Machine's guillotine. The whole reason why exile programs exist is that The Machine's develop and delete the redundant or obselete. So how long before The Machines find an alternative fuel source and all Bluepills are no longer the best source of power? Without Bluepills, the simulation in which they live also has no purpose. Without The Matrix, what is the point of having a place to house those who reject the simulation?
The Exiles find sanctuary in The Matrix. The ultimate example of this is The Merovingian's chateau which I understand to be impervious to the reset process. Are The Machines crying "foul!" at his pressumed immunity to their influence? So why is it that humans are to be regarded as a threat when they act similarly?
Or are you so caught up in attempting to attack the Machines that you are unwilling to entertain the idea of making the first move?The only real way true peace between all of our races can be achieved is with trust and respect and cooperation but someone has set aside all grievances to make the first move...
Or are you so caught up in attempting to attack the Machines that you are unwilling to entertain the idea of making the first move?
hear me out.
Zion still needs to have machines running and working in order to survive in the caves. Those machines have not been programmed for destruction or fighting or even knowing the difference between an ally and an enemy. They perform a specific function and thats it.
Shutting down the Machines is possible without killing all the humans in the pods. We wouldn't turn off every machine that is turned on just because its on the surface of the earth! The machines that take care of the pods and harvest fields are not programmed to fight or know what an enemy is. They are toasters that perform a function and thats it.
We would destroy all machines that know the difference between an enemy and an ally and take away control. We would figure out a way to take control over the Matrix and keep it alive until all humans are given the choice of awakening. ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- --------------------------------
To ZION, EPN will help you any way we can. It is what Kid wants us to do, so we will do it. You can call on us for anything, we are just a phone call away. I cant speak for the other EPN Factions but you can rely on Insurgence for backup.
Croesus wrote:Or are you so caught up in attempting to attack the Machines that you are unwilling to entertain the idea of making the first move?The only real way true peace between all of our races can be achieved is with trust and respect and cooperation but someone has set aside all grievances to make the first move... New Zion wasn't about attacking the Machine. Niobe said so herself. "They had us dead to rights" We're not here trying to make the first move against the Machine, but if we're threatened as in this case, we're not just going to compromise or give up our existence. When the Machine sets it's institution of manipulation and population control aside, we'll be more than happy to talk about respect and cooperation.
Thats where people differ, killer. Some people do think it was a hostile act on zions part, they could of been planning a vast-massive scale attack, how can you be so sure? Some people are the opposite side of the spectrum, and believe it was to build 'more room' for zion. Though, if this is the case, like Vinia said.. why the secracy, why a free fall drop? Why, why, why? Like the fourtune teller says, we have to make our own minds up, and not believe everything everyone is telling us. Make the decision yourself, just make sure its the right one. Why? Because at some point, in order for the human race to continue to exist, this measure of control that the Machine needs has to be lifted or nothing will change. The Cypherites and the continued presence of the Sentinel army are proof that it isn't going to change on the machine's behalf. I HAVE made the decision for myself, and I HAVE concluded that it's the right one. I wouldn't bother speaking on it if that wasn't the case. I know that people think differently. This argument makes that apparent, however what people think and what is aren't always the same thing. The truth will be all there is in the end, and I wouldn't even be surprised if it defied all of our opinions in all honesty. I could reply to point two but if you sift through the other communication channels, you'll find I've said my piece on that. More than enough times. The second point is our stance, and I've seen your piece on the issue. You can reference my last statement about opinions. spha x (( Okay, time to sit back and see where this goes.. ))
hear me out.Zion still needs to have machines running and working in order to survive in the caves. Those machines have not been programmed for destruction or fighting or even knowing the difference between an ally and an enemy. They perform a specific function and thats it.Shutting down the Machines is possible without killing all the humans in the pods. We wouldn't turn off every machine that is turned on just because its on the surface of the earth! The machines that take care of the pods and harvest fields are not programmed to fight or know what an enemy is. They are toasters that perform a function and thats it.We would destroy all machines that know the difference between an enemy and an ally and take away control. We would figure out a way to take control over the Matrix and keep it alive until all humans are given the choice of awakening. ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -------------------------------- To ZION, EPN will help you any way we can. It is what Kid wants us to do, so we will do it. You can call on us for anything, we are just a phone call away. I cant speak for the other EPN Factions but you can rely on Insurgence for backup.
SO you advocate destroying Intelligent minds that can fight back, but keeping those that can't and using them as you see fit until they outlive their usefulness as slaves?
You are a prime example that Mankind has not evolved and does not respect all intelligent life, just it's own.
Oh and GamiSB you view of the future is noble and optimistic, but unless you can convince people like Hydrazine here it will only be a pipe dream. Also you say a world without rules, without boundries, quoting a man who was trying to explain to someone about the manipulation of a simulation, not the real world. A world needs rules and boundries, simulated or real. Without any there would be chaos, mankind would revert back to the days when they were killing millions of fellow humans in vast wars.
A world of cooperation, understanding, respect for life and law and order, a world where Machines and Man can negotiate with each other about everything without the need for betrayal and secrecy. This is true peace, this is our future. The Machines have offered it once, maybe it's time to show that the Human race has grown and offer it back....
Yes I do advocate destroying intelligent minds that can fight back. Kill or be killed. We will keep intelligent machines and use them for what they were already being used for. They won't know the difference. They will just keep doing what they have been doing for years because thats all they have been programmed to do. And it's not slavery! We aren't going to force a piece of machinery to do something other than what its been created for or not give it oil if it disobeys or something!
Double post
We will keep intelligent machines and use them for what they were already being used for. They won't know the difference.
Hydrazine wrote:We would destroy all machines that know the difference between an enemy and an ally and take away control. We would figure out a way to take control over the Matrix and keep it alive until all humans are given the choice of awakening. ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -------------------------------- To ZION, EPN will help you any way we can. It is what Kid wants us to do, so we will do it. You can call on us for anything, we are just a phone call away. I cant speak for the other EPN Factions but you can rely on Insurgence for backup.SO you advocate destroying Intelligent minds that can fight back, but keeping those that can't and using them as you see fit until they outlive their usefulness as slaves?
We would destroy all machines that know the difference between an enemy and an ally and take away control. We would figure out a way to take control over the Matrix and keep it alive until all humans are given the choice of awakening. ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -------------------------------- To ZION, EPN will help you any way we can. It is what Kid wants us to do, so we will do it. You can call on us for anything, we are just a phone call away. I cant speak for the other EPN Factions but you can rely on Insurgence for backup.
These redpills would wipe out another intelligent species...I would call them animals, but that would be an insult to the animals. 'Sociopathic' would be a better description of them. But at least Hydrazine has confirmed what the Kid wants them to do, unless they try to spin that again too.
Illyria
These redpills would wipe out another intelligent species...I would call them animals, but that would be an insult to the animals. 'Sociopathic' would be a better description of them. But at least Hydrazine has confirmed what the Kid wants them to do, unless they try to spin that again too. Illyria
