GamiSB wrote:

Reeverb wrote:

You want everyone to be given the choice to waken up or to stay asleep. In order to do this, you must tell them the truth about the reality they are actually living in. How you do this is irrelevant. You can hack computers, guide them to a doctor, or use any other method you Neonites prefer. In the end it comes down to telling them the truth. Here you decide for others and that's unacceptable.

You tell me that I can't speak for the masses but I am not doing this. It's you who believe you have the right to make decisions for the innocent with your manifesto.

Your solution is flawed and you continue to prove that.

No you do not have to tell them the truth to have them decide if they want to wake up or stay asleep, hell isn't that what they are waking up to. The truth. All we ask is that everyone be allowed to hear what leads up to the truth and the choice of seeing the truth.

Told that on one side you have the truth, the hard, horrid, truth that you will have to give up everything you know and love to see. And on the other side you have the lie, the security of knowing the life you live now is all you need to be happy and you wouldn't give it up for the world.

Then show them the two pills, tell them the bluepill allows them to forget the whole thing ever happened and they go back to there job, kids, family, friends, back to their life if they aren't willing to risk them for the truth. And that the redpill says they are willing to give it up. That they are willing to risk the life they have lived in order to see this hard truth. Then they choose.

that is it. That is all. That's all we want. Nothign else, nothing more, nothing less. That conversation to be allowed to take place with every bluepill. That every bluepill has the chance of hearing that despite not being part of the 1%. So that they know and we know that they do or do not want out of the system. Your saying we are making all these decisions for them and speaking on there behalf but we aren't!

Everything I have suggested revolves around there choice, not mine but their's. The bluepill is always in control of the situation. They are told allot yes but they still make the choices, they choose to see and ask someone about the truth, they choose to listen to the person explaining what they are asking for, they then choose to accpet what they have been told is real or bull *CENSORED*, and they choose which pill to take.

All we do is offer them a place to learn more about it, a person to exaplin it to them, and a pill to choose between if they want to see it or not..

Gami, I don't care about your method to achieve this free choice. My point here is that you're deliberately give people a choice they didn't ask for. While a few, or perhaps a lot of bluepills will be glad with what you tell them there will also be a percentage that would rather never learn the truth. Who are you to decide for these people?
Or have you forgot what a horrifying day your day of awakement was? Or how sick people get when they hear the truth? To learn how to use your body again? Some might feel releaved, others might not. Some are curious, some will feel saved before they are awakened and only told about the truth. Some will regret their choice the rest of their lives after awakement. - This is the case already and here are you, claiming that you want to make it worse than it is already.
Stop this nonsense. This is not needed. Until the system is safe, the awakened will never be save. If the system isn't safe, Zion isn't safe. But no, you want to free the innocent and let them help you in a ridiculous and pathetic war, risking their lives while they were safe without you.

You will not succeed.

I give nothing, I only put my hand out. If they take the offer or not is up to them. Those that dont want to know take the bluepill and after that as far as they knew they never did know. Again I decide nothing they choose to come to us, they chosoe to listen, they choose which pill to take. They are warned that the truth sucks balls. That your giveing up everything to see it. If thats to much then take the bluepill by all means. If you want to give it all up then take the redpill.

If they do take the redpill and regret it then I may sound cold for saything it but thats there own *CENSORED* fault. If they thought they were ready to see the truth after being warned and can't coupe with it then they are the only ones to blame. But if that is the case then there are already ways to fix that whcih include going back to sleep. Your not bound to the redpill like you are the blue.

I do not want to free them, only offer them a choice to be freed. Neo didn't die so that every human could wake up, he died so every human could have a choice to wake up. We are offering these choices, thats all. 

GamiSB wrote:

Reeverb wrote:

You want everyone to be given the choice to waken up or to stay asleep. In order to do this, you must tell them the truth about the reality they are actually living in. How you do this is irrelevant. You can hack computers, guide them to a doctor, or use any other method you Neonites prefer. In the end it comes down to telling them the truth. Here you decide for others and that's unacceptable.

You tell me that I can't speak for the masses but I am not doing this. It's you who believe you have the right to make decisions for the innocent with your manifesto.

Your solution is flawed and you continue to prove that.

No you do not have to tell them the truth to have them decide if they want to wake up or stay asleep, hell isn't that what they are waking up to. The truth. All we ask is that everyone be allowed to hear what leads up to the truth and the choice of seeing the truth.

Told that on one side you have the truth, the hard, horrid, truth that you will have to give up everything you know and love to see. And on the other side you have the lie, the security of knowing the life you live now is all you need to be happy and you wouldn't give it up for the world.

Then show them the two pills, tell them the bluepill allows them to forget the whole thing ever happened and they go back to there job, kids, family, friends, back to their life if they aren't willing to risk them for the truth. And that the redpill says they are willing to give it up. That they are willing to risk the life they have lived in order to see this hard truth. Then they choose.

that is it. That is all. That's all we want. Nothign else, nothing more, nothing less. That conversation to be allowed to take place with every bluepill. That every bluepill has the chance of hearing that despite not being part of the 1%. So that they know and we know that they do or do not want out of the system. Your saying we are making all these decisions for them and speaking on there behalf but we aren't!

Everything I have suggested revolves around there choice, not mine but their's. The bluepill is always in control of the situation. They are told allot yes but they still make the choices, they choose to see and ask someone about the truth, they choose to listen to the person explaining what they are asking for, they then choose to accpet what they have been told is real or bull *CENSORED*, and they choose which pill to take.

All we do is offer them a place to learn more about it, a person to exaplin it to them, and a pill to choose between if they want to see it or not..

That choice to solidify their choice is nothing else than the choice itself. The choice that should only be given to the 1% of the Matrix population. The reason for that is simple. Stability. Those who do not recognize their "splinter in their mind", as you put it, would only recognize it by begin given that choice and despite their memory loss, if they take the blue pill, the splinter would not go away because it is stuck in the subconscious. The subconscious is hard to alter and thus you would give everyone and not only the 1% this splinter, subconsciously, thus violating the peace Neo gave us.

At least that is what I think. Ree is right on this. It is a decision you cannot put. Meh... maybe sometimes the wrong decision is the righteous one but that doesn't mean it's the correct one.

As it is now the only solidifying of any choice is if the bluepill decides that somethings off. If they don't then they are just forgotten about but if they did feel soemthing odd about the world they are asked again. Like asking someone "Do you want some candy" When they say no you forget about it but when they say yes you ask "Are you sure?" Now is that polite?

Hell no! It in all honesty and politeness should be the oposite. They say no and you ask "Are you sure?" they say yes and you hand it to them. But thats not how this sytem works right now and thats an even bigger change then any would wan. Right now it works like the first example they say yes they want the real and then are asked again. They say no then the conversation is droped. All we want is no mater the sublimital choice they take, be it wanting the candy or not, they are still given a chance to be asked "Are you sure?"

You second point about inserting splinters after this talk is a concern but given up to today all the bluepills that I know or heard of after chooseing blue went back to there lives happy and carefree. The point of the bluepill is to get rid of any splinter or thoughts that may have seeped into the mind while haveing the truth explained to them. Now I'm not saying that there have never been cases when someone took the bluepill but still couldn't coup, no that im sure happens but in thos cases I believe it to be that the person was apart of the 1% and made the wrong choice from the start. But that in turn is a problem because now they are a danger not only to themselves but to others and by the way it works now Zion can't do anything to help them because they took the bluepill.

Prove the bluepill his reality is fake and his mind will break.
Tell the bluepill only a small part of the truth and chances are he'll regret it when he awakens.

Let the bluepill find his own way out and only guide those who seek the truth behind their reality. These bluepills are the ones who can accept the truth. This is the 1% that fails to stay connected to the system. You need to leave the other 99% alone for you will do more harm to them than good. Even offering a choice could break their mind. Your solution of giving the choice will not result in peace but in confusion. Confusion leads to frustration and in the end we're further away from peace than we are now.

You have to realise not everyone is ready to be given a choice and that they cannot be made ready regardless of how you present them the choice.

Thats why they have the choice to decide if they want it to be proven to them or not. Red doesn't show you the truth as soon as you take it. It doesnt do a thing actully but insert a tracer into your RSI so you can be located in the real. The program named "The Scanner" comes to mind when dealing with the red pill because he was used to locate bluepills that had taken red but for some reason or another had yet to have been freed. No the red pill only shows the person offering it that the person chooseing is ready to take the jump and see the truth. After that they decided what to do, join Zion, join the Machie, join the merv, or go back to sleep.

Anome's mom was left to find the truth, look how she turned out. You think thats the only story like that in the city because I sure as hell dont. Everyone is ready for the choice, if they were not then the sublimital choice should have sent them on a joy ride already. No they are all ready it's just some dont know how to make it and we offer the means to make it.

Your speaking on behalf of everyone again athough you just claimed you don't, I say let everyone decide for themself if they want the choice or not. Hell thats the first choice wasn't it? The choice to see someone and ask about the truth. You don't want to, ok don't have to. HAve a nice day.

BlueCode wrote:

Code pulses, bombs, there all the same - and E Pluribus Neo dont have a problem with setting any of them off.

That little piece of ignorance nullifies any other potential credibility the remainder of your argument may have had.

Prove the bluepill his reality is fake and his mind will break.
Tell the bluepill only a small part of the truth and chances are he'll regret it when he awakens.

Let the bluepill find his own way out and only guide those who seek the truth behind their reality. These bluepills are the ones who can accept the truth. This is the 1% that fails to stay connected to the system. You need to leave the other 99% alone for you will do more harm to them than good. Even offering a choice could break their mind. Your solution of giving the choice will not result in peace but in confusion. Confusion leads to frustration and in the end we're further away from peace than we are now.

You have to realise not everyone is ready to be given a choice and that they cannot be made ready regardless of how you present them the choice.

shinpseudo wrote:

BlueCode wrote:

Code pulses, bombs, there all the same - and E Pluribus Neo dont have a problem with setting any of them off.

That little piece of ignorance nullifies any other potential credibility the remainder of your argument may have had.

What? You think that by insulting me it'll pass off the atrocities you've created and been a part of in the matrix? You fool.

Even you yourself have said that my statement may have some potential credibility. You know it's the truth.

Reeverb wrote:

Prove the bluepill his reality is fake and his mind will break.
Tell the bluepill only a small part of the truth and chances are he'll regret it when he awakens.

Let the bluepill find his own way out and only guide those who seek the truth behind their reality. These bluepills are the ones who can accept the truth. This is the 1% that fails to stay connected to the system. You need to leave the other 99% alone for you will do more harm to them than good. Even offering a choice could break their mind. Your solution of giving the choice will not result in peace but in confusion. Confusion leads to frustration and in the end we're further away from peace than we are now.

You have to realise not everyone is ready to be given a choice and that they cannot be made ready regardless of how you present them the choice.

Thats why they have the choice to decide if they want it to be proven to them or not.

For the 4th time: Not everyone is ready to be given the choice.

Your speaking on behalf of everyone again athough you just claimed you don't, I say let everyone decide for themself if they want the choice or not.

GamiSB wrote:

Reeverb wrote:

Prove the bluepill his reality is fake and his mind will break.
Tell the bluepill only a small part of the truth and chances are he'll regret it when he awakens.

Let the bluepill find his own way out and only guide those who seek the truth behind their reality. These bluepills are the ones who can accept the truth. This is the 1% that fails to stay connected to the system. You need to leave the other 99% alone for you will do more harm to them than good. Even offering a choice could break their mind. Your solution of giving the choice will not result in peace but in confusion. Confusion leads to frustration and in the end we're further away from peace than we are now.

You have to realise not everyone is ready to be given a choice and that they cannot be made ready regardless of how you present them the choice.

Thats why they have the choice to decide if they want it to be proven to them or not.

For the 4th time: Not everyone is ready to be given the choice.

For the 4th time we dont want them to only choose between real or Matrix We want them to be able to choose if they want to choose between real or the matrix. We want them to have a choice in everything, freedom over there lives.

Your speaking on behalf of everyone again athough you just claimed you don't, I say let everyone decide for themself if they want the choice or not.

You're now going against yourself.
First you tell us you want everyone to be given the choice. And with that last line you say that everyone can decide for themselves if they want the choice or not.

This is why EPN is failing: Y'all don't make sense and have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about! You're avoiding, missing or/and ignoring my point. I pointed out the flawes in your ignorant logic but you still just repeat them.

I give up.

EPN wants everyone to be given a choice, yes glad you can see that far. But not just in one thing small area, but in everything! I've said this from the start but you continually just overlook it and skip over to giving them the choice between red and blue saying that our plan is flawed because we are pushing this one area on everyone. Wrong we want everyone to know is there is a choice before the pills a choice before hearing about the truth. The choice to decide if you want to go down that path and hear the rest of the story. But 99% of the population is denied that first choice. Denied a chance to make sure that what they subliminally want is really what they want. And anytime someone reaches out to inform them that there is this choice. That its there if they want to make it. But right now that isn't allowed to happen. People can't choose if they want to hear about the truth or not.

That's what we want. The freedom so that every human plugged into the Matrix, apart of the 1% or 99% has the right to decided for themselves, consciously waht they want to make of there life.

So stop skipping over parts and start reading with an open mind and maybe you will understand that we aren't these lunatic redpills that want to shove a choice on everyone but just people that want to inform the world that if they want to have a choice they have it and its waiting for whenever they feel they are ready to choose.

Let's go back to basics, shall we?

1) The Matrix is a prison. People are incarcerated in jelly-filled pods with bodies being force-fed the liquified remains of the dead, while their minds are force-fed a lie by a computer.

2) The Machines use humans for power. This is slavery, because the people get nothing in return. The argument that the Machines provide for the safety and security of humans in return for control is not effective because people have an inalienable right to be Free.

3) The 'choice' given to humans is subconcious. This means they literally have no control over said 'choice'. They either subconciously accept the lie, or they do not. For those who do not yet know the Truth, they are permitted no concious choice. No understanding, no realization, no logical progression and digestion of the facts of their reality. Therefore, they are held against their will. Furthermore, because they are still here, so must we be. By extension, we are slaves, then, too.

4) Neo died to save us all; human, machine, program. EPN recognizes and honors that sacrifice. We merely want the people to have an understanding of the Truth, so that they can make a concious choice. There will be those that wish to remain in the Matrix, and we are fine with that, so long as it is their choice. Even if it turned out to be the majority of the Bluepills currently enslaved to this system, EPN would not hinder or harass anyone who made the concious choice to stay.

People are not as fragile as you would have everyone believe. They can survive the Truth; I've seen it hundreds of times. As a race, we are strong. There is hope for us yet. Neo's peace was just the first step, but make no mistake, he wanted freedom for us all. E Pluribus Neo will continue to strive for that freedom so long as there is one of us left alive, whether Michael is here to lead us or not.

May Neo Watch Over Us All. 

Therefore it is imperative that as followers of E Pluribus Neo, we each fight for what WE beleive in, and not concern ourselves with the approval of the Machines or even those zionists who follow the misguided judgement of their council beleiving that one day humans and machines can and will live together in peace.

Does this mean you don't support peaceful coexistence?  Do you believe in separatism, or in wiping out those on the other side?

Illyria

Rxu wrote:

Therefore it is imperative that as followers of E Pluribus Neo, we each fight for what WE beleive in, and not concern ourselves with the approval of the Machines or even those zionists who follow the misguided judgement of their council beleiving that one day humans and machines can and will live together in peace.

Does this mean you don't support peaceful coexistence?  Do you believe in separatism, or in wiping out those on the other side?

 

Illyria

Anome's mom was left to find the truth, look how she turned out. You think thats the only story like that in the city because I sure as hell dont.

Anome's mother lived in a different time.  Now that the truce is in place, those who reject the simulation can be found by Zion more easily, and without them having to worry about agents or sentinels interfering.

GamiSB wrote:

 Everyone is ready for the choice, if they were not then the sublimital choice should have sent them on a joy ride already. No they are all ready it's just some dont know how to make it and we offer the means to make it.

How do you offer them the choice consciously, without planting the seed of doubt in their minds?

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

People are not as fragile as you would have everyone believe.

C'mon, a few years back people saw a comet in the sky and thought that there was a spaceship in it that was going to take them to heaven...so they castrated themselves and eventually killed themselves.  This is just one example of how the human mind is not unbreakable.

Watch the bluepills, and monitor them for signs of awakening.  Offer the red and the blue pills to those that are found.  By giving a so-called conscious choice to the others, you are forcing them onto the path of awakening.  Just because you consider the Matrix to be a prison or a form of slavery, that doesn't mean the blues think of it as that. 

Illyria 

PS: Let's take this analogy a little further, shall we?  I might as well say I'm 'imprisoned' because I can't leave the Earth -- I have the inalienable right to be free, which means I can go wherever I want, but I'm stuck here and I can't leave!  So I'm in a prison.  And I'm enslaved to this *CENSORED* oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere, that won't let me go anywhere there's no air to breathe.

You can consider me the person who is aware that after all this damage has been done by either side we can never peacefully coexist.

I have surpassed the lie that many still beleive in,  To even attempt such things will bring us more casualties and further divide the human race.

We spend soo much time and energy defending a goal that is obviously flawed, maybe the machines have realized this before the zion council and those who follow their lead.

 I choose my own path, one that Neo firmly beleived in, until he realized it was too late and mankind was at the brink of destruction.

Much like the other saviour that we are all familiar with, Neo gave his life for both the good and the evil so they may carry on with a certain level of peace, basically delaying the inevitable destruction of both worlds.

But again this was only a delay, in hopes that many more could be saved from the system, before his second comming..were he will spread justice amongst those left...

The true question here is..Wich side are you on? As only one will inherit the earth.

BlueCode wrote:

shinpseudo wrote:

BlueCode wrote:

Code pulses, bombs, there all the same - and E Pluribus Neo dont have a problem with setting any of them off.

That little piece of ignorance nullifies any other potential credibility the remainder of your argument may have had.

What? You think that by insulting me it'll pass off the atrocities you've created and been a part of in the matrix? You fool.

Even you yourself have said that my statement may have some potential credibility. You know it's the truth.

May have had. Meaning it could of, but it dont. Go back to sleep troll.