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<title>Latest posts for the topic &quot;One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;&quot;</title>
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<description>Latest messages posted in the topic &quot;One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;&quot;</description>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;Renesis13B wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Specials have no extra accuracy bonuses applied to them.&amp;nbsp; The devs confirmed this a while back when ep was still up.&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;p&gt;Message Edited by Renesis13B on &lt;span class=date_text&gt;04-22-2006&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span class=time_text&gt;11:29 PM&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yeah, it&apos;s just through Initiative, which we don&apos;t know if it&apos;s a 1-to-1 relationship with Accuracy and Defense (thank you no combat information).</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 23 Apr 2006 01:25:24 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Cal</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;i thought special vs special was decided strictly by initiative.. now that i think about it im not 100% sure of that. we all know that its involved with specials but i suppose the bottom line is, we just dont know precisely how =)&lt;/DIV&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:05:57 GMT</pubDate>
<author>cryshal</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;I have experienced this as well and have a theory about it. &lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;I think the hacker negative roll is being applied to all trees. They said they put in a decrease in hacker rolls in IL the higher level the ability was. For example, a level 17 hacker ability cast by a 50 would go through much more often than a level 46 one cast by a 50. Like I said, I think this is being applied to all trees in IL. It&apos;s pretty hard to test though. &lt;/P&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:10:09 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Kivo</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;HR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; KivoOnline wrote:&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;I have experienced this as well and have a theory about it. &lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;I think the hacker negative roll is being applied to all trees. They said they put in a decrease in hacker rolls in IL the higher level the ability was. For example, &lt;FONT color=#ff0000&gt;a level 17 hacker ability cast by a 50 would go through much more often than a level 46 one cast by a 50&lt;/FONT&gt;. Like I said, I think this is being applied to all trees in IL. It&apos;s pretty hard to test though. &lt;/P&gt;&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;HR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;BR&gt;OMG no way, if id a known that id be usein my lower abs more often, as for the specials sorry but you confuse me, the two specials ive heard frog talk about it being a zero sum after people asking was it compleatly removed and he stated it wasn&apos;t &quot;compleatly&quot; removed because of this.</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:41:11 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Danger_Frog1471</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;Specials are only zero sum when it is special vs special. If that happens, it uses attack vs attack rolls. Any other time it uses attack vs defense. Is that clear?&lt;/DIV&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:47:26 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Kivo</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>Normal vs. Normal: both roll accuracy vs. defense&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; Special vs. Normal: both roll accuracy vs. defense, but if the special move wins, the normal move doesn&apos;t go through&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; Special vs. Special: accuracy + initiative vs. accuracy + initiative.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;i&gt;little known fact:&lt;/i&gt; You only get initiative from using the
&lt;br&gt; Desperation ability. If neither person is using Desperation, then it&apos;s
&lt;br&gt; just accuracy vs. accuracy, much like the old combat system (except
&lt;br&gt; that it&apos;s the appropriate kind of accuracy for your attack, rather than
&lt;br&gt; just MCT)&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; I didn&apos;t find that little known fact until last friday &lt;span&gt;:smileysurprised:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:52:41 GMT</pubDate>
<author>HCFrog</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;Frog what exactly does the Desperation ability do? Is it like 3-4 point buff to hopefully tip the fight in your favor or what?&lt;/DIV&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:00:56 GMT</pubDate>
<author>WGAnubis1</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>Depends on your bonuses, also It&apos;s higher if activated when below 50% health.&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:02:47 GMT</pubDate>
<author>ZaneZavin</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;HR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; HCFrog wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;I&gt;little known fact:&lt;/I&gt; You only get initiative from using the Desperation ability. If neither person is using Desperation, then it&apos;s just accuracy vs. accuracy, much like the old combat system (except that it&apos;s the appropriate kind of accuracy for your attack, rather than just MCT)&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I didn&apos;t find that little known fact until last friday &lt;SPAN&gt;:smileysurprised:&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;HR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;BR&gt;That&apos;s not actually true. There is a passive spy ability that gives initiative.</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:08:11 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Kivo</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;Can&apos;t edit. &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; /&gt; Nvm, I think it was changed, removed, or I was wrong. &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:29:52 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Kivo</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;there&apos;s also clothes that gives bonuses to initiative.&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;like the Widows Moor Glasses does...thus, why it&apos;s a good thing for an MA to use cause more than likely MA&apos;s will have more of a chance of rolling special vs special because they&apos;re an interlock class.&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;Which brings me to a problem I&apos;ve been seeing. For interlock classes, having more vitality (bonus to initiative) is very important cause of the zero-sum of special vs special rounds. Most likely when people get into interlock they immidiately use a special to get the first hit. Thus, why its important to have a high vitality (initiative) plus specific clothes that gives buffs to initiative plus Desperation. Also since its accuracy + initiative, its important to combine all 3 trees in order to stack the accuracy base bonuses from all three.&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;this was a little concerning having vitality be very important due to the many times that MA&apos;s roll special vs. special.&lt;/DIV&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:46:48 GMT</pubDate>
<author>bonobi</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;If Im reading this correctly Initiative is useless unless your using the desperation ability?&amp;nbsp; So if desperation isnt running you dont get any bonuses from initiative?&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;HCFrog wrote:&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;i&gt;little known fact:&lt;/i&gt; You only get initiative from using the
&lt;br&gt; Desperation ability. If neither person is using Desperation, then it&apos;s
&lt;br&gt; just accuracy vs. accuracy, much like the old combat system (except
&lt;br&gt; that it&apos;s the appropriate kind of accuracy for your attack, rather than
&lt;br&gt; just MCT)&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; I didn&apos;t find that little known fact until last friday &lt;span&gt;:smileysurprised:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:23:19 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Renesis13B</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;Renesis13B wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;If Im reading this
&lt;br&gt; correctly Initiative is useless unless your using the desperation
&lt;br&gt; ability?&amp;nbsp; So if desperation isnt running you dont get any bonuses
&lt;br&gt; from initiative?&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;That&apos;s correct.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; Like all of the influences, it needs an active upgrade to apply its
&lt;br&gt; bonus to. Desperation is the only ability that applies any Initiative.&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:56:33 GMT</pubDate>
<author>HCFrog</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;HCFrog wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;Renesis13B wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;If Im reading this
&lt;br&gt; correctly Initiative is useless unless your using the desperation
&lt;br&gt; ability?&amp;nbsp; So if desperation isnt running you dont get any bonuses
&lt;br&gt; from initiative?&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;That&apos;s correct.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; Like all of the influences, it needs an active upgrade to apply its
&lt;br&gt; bonus to. Desperation is the only ability that applies any Initiative.&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Then dont you think you should remove the timer on it?&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:22:57 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Warboy</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;HR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; Warboy wrote: A good idea.
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;HR&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;/agree&lt;/P&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:44:56 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Kivo</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;KivoOnline wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;hr&gt;
&lt;br&gt; Warboy wrote: A good idea.
&lt;br&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;hr&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;p&gt;/agree&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;/highfive&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:16:23 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Warboy</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;the best way to fix the overly severe hacker interlock nerf is to add +10 initiative, in points, to a hacker ab which is fairly far down the tree so that hybrids cant reach it. now wouldnt that just be hilarious? =D&lt;/DIV&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:54:43 GMT</pubDate>
<author>cryshal</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;*CENSORED*, my threads have all been going up empty though I type plenty of words?&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;*FRUSTRATED*&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;p&gt;Message Edited by Jilted_1 on &lt;span class=date_text&gt;04-25-2006&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span class=time_text&gt;12:34 PM&lt;/span&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:33:09 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Jilted1</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;see that? its a sign that DN1 agrees with me. none may refute me!$% =D</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:24:48 GMT</pubDate>
<author>cryshal</author>
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<title>Re: One Problem Lots of people seem to notice - Special moves arent that &apos;special&apos;</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;little known fact: You only get initiative from using the Desperation ability. If neither person is using Desperation, then it&apos;s just accuracy vs. accuracy, much like the old combat system (except that it&apos;s the appropriate kind of accuracy for your attack, rather than just MCT)
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So what if 1 person is using desparation. It becomes Accuracy + Initiative VS. Accuracy, correct?
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;According to this, unless you use desparation, all those % bonuses to initiative from clothing or passive abilities, such as karate expertise or something. That Initiative Bonus % means nothing without desparation active?
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In other words, say I don&apos;t plan on using desparation, my attributes are better spent somewhere besides maxing out Vitality for more initiative bonus?&lt;p&gt;Message Edited by jeffrah on &lt;span class=date_text&gt;04-29-2006&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span class=time_text&gt;12:57 AM&lt;/span&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:57:25 GMT</pubDate>
<author>jeffrah</author>
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