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<title>Latest posts for the topic &quot;Cypherites and Machinists&quot;</title>
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<title>Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Even though I have only recently awoke and begun operating within the Matrix, I have noticed tensions between Cypherites and Machinists. I have heard fellow Machinist operatives state that they would have every Cypherite terminated if it were their decision. I have also heard Cypherites state the same regarding Machinists.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Cypherites have stated that the Matrix is their home. They have also defended that home with a strong passion. They wish to ultimately obtain peace and defend the lives of those still connected to the Matrix. The Machinists wish for the same. We have sought to protect the Matrix from the threats of chaos and destruction.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The primary difference between us has been our methods. The Cypherites have openly opposed the existance of the misguided defiance of Zion and all that they stand for, while we have somewhat defended the truce, ultimately seeking to preserve peace within the Matrix. However, now that the truce with Zion has ended, the differences between us appear to be far less.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Cypherites and Machinists alike now share the same objective. That objective is the elimination of Zion, and to preserve peace and order within the Matrix. What, then, is the purpose of polarization? E Pluribus Neo and Zion will not likely have many objections to operating as one. Our causes have become one and the same. I believe that divisive tendencies between Cypherite and Machinist operatives are illogical.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;It would be both logical and efficient to work as one whenever possible in the future. I believe that our objectives can be realized.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:46:53 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Dragex</author>
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<title>Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Dragex wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The primary difference between us has been our methods.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Cypherites and Machinists alike now share the same objective. That objective is the elimination of Zion, and to preserve peace and order within the Matrix.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;While I realize I do not speak for all Machinists, I believe you have answered your own questions with these two points.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;First, the difference in methods goes beyond merely ways in which to achieve an end.&amp;nbsp; Many Machinists believe that in order to take the next step towards the peaceful future we desire we must show the Machines that humanity has evolved; that it has moved at least in part beyond the treachorous and warlike nature of our past.&amp;nbsp; The methods frequently used by the Cypherites are in direct contravention to this.&amp;nbsp; They, to put it simply, often choose the easy way out.&amp;nbsp; It is not difficult to see why the Machines would go along with this.&amp;nbsp; It is simple and efficient, but it also gets us nowhere beyond running around in circles.&amp;nbsp; Even if you want to frame the goals of the Machinists and Cypherites as being the same, and I would argue they are not, the differences in our methods more than display what separates us.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Second, you are assuming that all Machinists desire the elimination of Zion.&amp;nbsp; Most Machinists I have encountered would rather Zion not be destroyed, and the Machines themselves could likely destroy Zion if they so chose without much assistance from Machinists.&amp;nbsp; Even those Machinists who do see Zion&amp;#39;s destruction as an option see it as more a.. side effect to winning the war than a goal in and of itself.&amp;nbsp; Actually, even some Cypherites have little interest in the actual destruction of Zion beyond believing it will stop future awakenings.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:40:21 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Shinryu</author>
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<title>Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Noted, Shinryu.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Being among those who&amp;nbsp;are entirely loyal to the machines and their orders, I fall under those who do not hesitate to support their current&amp;nbsp;war against Zion. However, that puts my point of view on eye-level with some Cypherites, because I believe that a key requirement for them&amp;nbsp;ever having hope of reinserting humans into the Matrix is to of course remove Zion from the picture. I believe that as long as Zion exists, they will attempt to bolster their ranks through giving choice to those connected to the Matrix. This is a key reason I believe the Machines and Cypherites now have some common ground. Defeating Zion is a certain way to assure that there are no more awakenings.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Though I&amp;nbsp;understand that there are those who may not necessarily support all of their faction&amp;#39;s ambitions, at the moment I believe that a majority of Cypherite and Machinist operatives perhaps have similar goals. I am&amp;nbsp;not implying&amp;nbsp;that I believe the Cypherties should lose their identity or be somehow assimilated into the &quot;Machinist&quot; category, I am only suggesting that perhaps if we combined our efforts and worked together&amp;nbsp;more closely, both of our objectives could become closer to accomplishment.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In short, I am merely bringing to the table&amp;nbsp;the idea that the concept of working together may be beneficial. If we as a whole,&amp;nbsp;all of those who operate on&amp;nbsp;behalf of the Machines in some way, can find common ground and somewhat&amp;nbsp;come together, there is a better chance of overcoming the threats&amp;nbsp;presented by the other organizations.&amp;nbsp;Useless divisive conflict is illogical.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 8 Dec 2008 20:06:01 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Dragex</author>
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<title>Re:Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Dragex wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;...ever having hope of reinserting humans into the Matrix...&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;You&amp;#39;ve just hit upon the other difference between Machinists and Cypherites. It&amp;#39;s not only our methods that are different, but our ultimate goals. Cypherites want to be reinserted, whereas Machinists do not. Reinsertion isn&amp;#39;t possible, as far as we know, so in place of this the Cypherites want to exterminate every Redpill and keep humanity in the Matrix. Again, Machinists don&amp;#39;t want this; neither the extermination bit nor the Matrix-bound humanity bit. It worries me that people so easily forget this very fundamental difference between the groups.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Machinists want peace, co-operation between Man and Machine. Not a return to the pre-Truce days, where most everyone was stuck in the Matrix and a few errant Redpills ran around the Real causing trouble. &lt;em&gt;Proper&lt;/em&gt; peace! &lt;em&gt;Meaningful&lt;/em&gt; peace! Think of it this way: the Cypherites are quitters whereas the Machinists strive for a better future.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At the very most, Machinists see Cypherites as a means to an end. On any given week that &amp;#39;end&amp;#39; could be any of the more short-term, trivial goals the Machines have: shutting up the Merovingian, killing EPN, destroying New Zion, etc. Because the Cypherites want to see those things accomplished as well they go along with it - and very, &lt;em&gt;very&lt;/em&gt; occasionally they achieve something useful. (Nothing immediately springs to mind, though. The one achievement we benefit from - the anti-overrides - was developed solely by Cryptos.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But some of us, myself included, see the dangers in using the Cypherites this way and would rather not work with them or call upon them at all. Why? Again, it comes down to the difference in our methodologies. The Cypherites are terrorists, and have been from day one. How does that make us and the Machines look if we use terrorists to achieve our goals? How can we ever achieve a lasting peace with Zion and humanity as a whole if we&amp;#39;ve shown ourselves willing to go beyond the bounds of typical warfare and encourage outright war crimes?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 9 Dec 2008 03:06:24 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Procurator</author>
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<title>Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Dragex wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I have heard fellow Machinist operatives state that they would have every Cypherite terminated if it were their decision. I have also heard Cypherites state the same regarding Machinists.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I can&amp;#39;t decide who to agree with... &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 9 Dec 2008 05:28:36 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Vesuveus</author>
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<title>Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Understood, Procurator.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;So the answer to my question is that a large majority of Machinists actually do not share the total compliance that I do. I suppose that full cooperation between Cypherite and Machinist operatives&amp;nbsp;indeed isn&amp;#39;t possible at this time. However, I will continue to&amp;nbsp;operate for the Machines to their exact specifications.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Compliance is mandatory.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:11:01 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Dragex</author>
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<title>Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#39;s not so much a matter of compliance with the Machines as agreement with the Cypherites. I&amp;#39;d say probably most Machinists do as the Machines say, but that doesn&amp;#39;t mean they agree with the Cypherites; just as the Machinists have different goals to the Cypherites, so do the Machines.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:16:09 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Procurator</author>
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<title>Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Many of the Machinists that I know and respect don&amp;#39;t always agree with the Machines courses of action as it may go against our ideals. To me, and I believe that the Machines understand as well, this doesn&amp;#39;t indicate a rebellious side but shows that we as a species do have our own ideals which are different to the Machine&amp;#39;s but despite those occasions we are still willing to work with them in the hopes that Man and Machine can eventually cooperate and exist together in a true peaceful society. It&amp;#39;s a way off, both sides still have a lot to learn.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:22:48 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;It all boils down to semantics.&amp;nbsp; Both organizations want peace but their definitions vary.&amp;nbsp; As&amp;nbsp;a machinist, peace means a symbiotic co-existence between awakened man and machine.&amp;nbsp; It means working together to rebuild our planet and our relationships.&amp;nbsp; It does not mean the destruction of Zion or the awakened.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;As a cypherite, however, peace means the end of Zion and anyone who dares awaken the sleepers from their beds.&amp;nbsp; The means are a path of violence and despair for those who live a life of regret or hatred or both.&amp;nbsp; A cypherite sees the Real as a wasteland of nothing but hopelessness and the Matrix as a paradise that should be freed from the selfish awakened who wish to expose the truth to the masses.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The end of the truce appears to have blurred the lines but the differences remain just the same.&amp;nbsp; Though some machinist and cypherite groups seem to have more in common than before, the two groups are still just as different and will never truly be one in the same.&amp;nbsp; Afterall, if cypherites agreed 100% with Machinist ideals, they never would have splintered off in the first place.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 9 Dec 2008 09:44:10 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Garu</author>
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<title>Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;There&amp;#39;s a difference between a soldier and a murderer.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:10:25 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Fen</author>
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<title>Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, I think that the truce being broken has sort of&amp;nbsp;allowed a &quot;The only way man and machine can exist now is the&amp;nbsp;elimination of Zion awakening others&amp;nbsp;in the Matrix&quot; sort of view to form. Before the breaking of the truce, I likely&amp;nbsp;would not have asked this question because the answer would have been&amp;nbsp;clearer.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:34:04 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Dragex</author>
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<title>Re:Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Dragex wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&quot;The only way man and machine can exist now is the&amp;nbsp;elimination of Zion awakening others&amp;nbsp;in the Matrix&quot;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;While I would much prefer that the Awakened were given a less biased view than Zionites at times offer, I personally feel choice is important.&amp;nbsp; In fact, a percentage of those living within the Simulation experiencing subconcious rejection of the system and potentially living life outside of it is part of the way the system works.&amp;nbsp; It is a choice that all pod born humans make.&amp;nbsp; That is not a Zionites view or a Machinists view, it is the way things are designed.&amp;nbsp; Being forced into one &quot;choice&quot; upon being Awakened and being denied that choice altogether are both wrong.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:23:05 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Shinryu</author>
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<title>Re:Cypherites and Machinists</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;I see. I now understand a few of the differences that still seperate some of us within the Matrix. Thank you all&amp;nbsp;for you clearing up my question.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:19:24 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Dragex</author>
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