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<title>Latest posts for the topic &quot;[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08&quot;</title>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Lots of things to respond to in this thread...&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;AlphaCoder wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;You mean to tell me you don&amp;#39;t think/see how telling them they have been living a lie is practically a guarantee that they will pop that stupid red pill? &amp;quot;You&amp;#39;ve been living a lie, discover the truth&amp;quot;. You think people are going to turn that down, once you have said that they don&amp;#39;t listen to the rest of what you tell them, they are too busy wondering what the hell &amp;quot;the truth&amp;quot; is gunna be after being blissfully ignorant for however long.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is the main argument against giving the bluepills a *conscious* choice whether or not to take the red or blue pill.&amp;nbsp; It gives too much away, and alot of people who never would&amp;nbsp;have&amp;nbsp;questioned the simulation otherwise will have their curiosity get the better of them.&amp;nbsp; Then they&amp;#39;re stuck in the desert of the real, unable to go back, and forever regretting the choice they made.&amp;nbsp; That sounds like the perfect way to make more Cypherites.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;xenin wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;nbsp;You can&amp;#39;t stop that 1% of bluepills from realising how fake the Matrix is. Someone must be their to extract them, you can&amp;#39;t keep shoving Bluepills down their throats and Zion extracts them, for those who choose to take the Redpill. If you think we are going to stand by&amp;nbsp;and watch them be recycled or even let those Redpills fill the ranks of the Machines Army or Cypherite Terrorists, them your more stupid than I thought.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So much for the freedom of choice Zion and EPN are always talking about.&amp;nbsp; People are free to choose, but only if they pick the &amp;#39;right&amp;#39; choice.&amp;nbsp; Who&amp;#39;s to say that every bluepill you free will want to stay with the org that extracted them?&amp;nbsp; Will you keep them imprisoned in New Zion, or will they not be permitted to live?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;xenin wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;nbsp;As for Machinists Leaving Zion and joining The Machines, I don&amp;#39;t have a problem with that, so long as they understand that they will be shot on sight and killed.&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Oh wait, you answered my question right there.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Pyraci wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;In all fairness, is there a point of reference for this agreement where Machinists or &amp;quot;others&amp;quot; are allowed to continue awakenings after what the Architect said? Not saying it doesn&amp;#39;t exist, but for those just getting in on this discussion to see both sides of it.&lt;/i&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We were told that awakenings (by Zion/EPN or by Machinists) are no longer permitted.&amp;nbsp; I can&amp;#39;t tell you&amp;nbsp;if the Machines themselves are doing it.&amp;nbsp; Maybe that&amp;#39;s where bluepills like Mary MacHenry are going.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;If in the future New Zion is destroyed, the Machines will still need a way to keep that 1% from disrupting the system.&amp;nbsp; They would probably either rebuild Zion or build another version of Zion somewhere else.&amp;nbsp; It would be ironic if, in order to keep things running, they chose Machinists as the founding population!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I care about more than just the blues, but as blues are the Human race, you&amp;#39;re *CENSORED* right I care about them, in fact the only thing I care about more than the blues is the vision of the future, of Mankind and Machine united. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I probably won&amp;#39;t see this future, most likely down to the actions of you and yours, so making sure bluepills survive past my expiration matters more to me than anything.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I couldn&amp;#39;t have said it better myself.&amp;nbsp; I want a future where humans and AI will live as part of the same society, not with one side dominating and one side dominated, and not ‘separate but equal&amp;#39; either.&amp;nbsp; But I do understand that there is no quick fix, and that this will take time.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;We may not see this future, but I hope our descendents will.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;Oh look, here comes little Miss Perfect, The Holier Art Than Thou, the self rightchoues moron. You just did what some, if not most, Machinists do. You borrowed some of our quotes, twisted the meaning of the quote, in this case my quotes, and completely ignore whatever Zionites say thereafter.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;Also I prefer you did NOT use my quotes for your Propaganda Machine. This was What I was trying to tell Vinia when she accused me of using supposed&amp;nbsp;Propaganda, Machinists are no different than any other org.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;Also I don&amp;#39;t recall wanting you to use my quotes in that way, plus I was talking to Vinia, NEVER You. So kindly *CENSORED* off and get out of my face, you horrid little *CENSORED*.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:42:15 GMT</pubDate>
<author>xenin</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Lots of things to respond to in this thread...&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;AlphaCoder wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;You mean to tell me you don&amp;#39;t think/see how telling them they have been living a lie is practically a guarantee that they will pop that stupid red pill? &amp;quot;You&amp;#39;ve been living a lie, discover the truth&amp;quot;. You think people are going to turn that down, once you have said that they don&amp;#39;t listen to the rest of what you tell them, they are too busy wondering what the hell &amp;quot;the truth&amp;quot; is gunna be after being blissfully ignorant for however long.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is the main argument against giving the bluepills a *conscious* choice whether or not to take the red or blue pill.&amp;nbsp; It gives too much away, and alot of people who never would&amp;nbsp;have&amp;nbsp;questioned the simulation otherwise will have their curiosity get the better of them.&amp;nbsp; Then they&amp;#39;re stuck in the desert of the real, unable to go back, and forever regretting the choice they made.&amp;nbsp; That sounds like the perfect way to make more Cypherites.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;xenin wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;nbsp;You can&amp;#39;t stop that 1% of bluepills from realising how fake the Matrix is. Someone must be their to extract them, you can&amp;#39;t keep shoving Bluepills down their throats and Zion extracts them, for those who choose to take the Redpill. If you think we are going to stand by&amp;nbsp;and watch them be recycled or even let those Redpills fill the ranks of the Machines Army or Cypherite Terrorists, them your more stupid than I thought.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So much for the freedom of choice Zion and EPN are always talking about.&amp;nbsp; People are free to choose, but only if they pick the &amp;#39;right&amp;#39; choice.&amp;nbsp; Who&amp;#39;s to say that every bluepill you free will want to stay with the org that extracted them?&amp;nbsp; Will you keep them imprisoned in New Zion, or will they not be permitted to live?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;xenin wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;nbsp;As for Machinists Leaving Zion and joining The Machines, I don&amp;#39;t have a problem with that, so long as they understand that they will be shot on sight and killed.&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Oh wait, you answered my question right there.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Pyraci wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;In all fairness, is there a point of reference for this agreement where Machinists or &amp;quot;others&amp;quot; are allowed to continue awakenings after what the Architect said? Not saying it doesn&amp;#39;t exist, but for those just getting in on this discussion to see both sides of it.&lt;/i&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We were told that awakenings (by Zion/EPN or by Machinists) are no longer permitted.&amp;nbsp; I can&amp;#39;t tell you&amp;nbsp;if the Machines themselves are doing it.&amp;nbsp; Maybe that&amp;#39;s where bluepills like Mary MacHenry are going.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;If in the future New Zion is destroyed, the Machines will still need a way to keep that 1% from disrupting the system.&amp;nbsp; They would probably either rebuild Zion or build another version of Zion somewhere else.&amp;nbsp; It would be ironic if, in order to keep things running, they chose Machinists as the founding population!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I care about more than just the blues, but as blues are the Human race, you&amp;#39;re *CENSORED* right I care about them, in fact the only thing I care about more than the blues is the vision of the future, of Mankind and Machine united. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I probably won&amp;#39;t see this future, most likely down to the actions of you and yours, so making sure bluepills survive past my expiration matters more to me than anything.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I couldn&amp;#39;t have said it better myself.&amp;nbsp; I want a future where humans and AI will live as part of the same society, not with one side dominating and one side dominated, and not ‘separate but equal&amp;#39; either.&amp;nbsp; But I do understand that there is no quick fix, and that this will take time.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;We may not see this future, but I hope our descendents will.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;Oh look, here comes little Miss Perfect, The Holier Art Than Thou, the self rightchoues moron. You just did what some, if not most, Machinists do. You borrowed some of our quotes, twisted the meaning of the quote, in this case my quotes, and completely ignore whatever Zionites say thereafter.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;Also I prefer you did NOT use my quotes for your Propaganda Machine. This was What I was trying to tell Vinia when she accused me of using supposed&amp;nbsp;Propaganda, Machinists are no different than any other org.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;Also I don&amp;#39;t recall wanting your opinion, Cypherite, well your clearly no Machinist because of your attitude. Plus I was talking to Vinia, NEVER You. So kindly *CENSORED* off and get out of my face, you horrid little *CENSORED*.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;((I would like to point out for legal reasons, that was all RP))&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:45:21 GMT</pubDate>
<author>xenin</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;xenin wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;xenin wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;nbsp;You can&amp;#39;t stop that 1% of bluepills from realising how fake the Matrix is. Someone must be their to extract them, you can&amp;#39;t keep shoving Bluepills down their throats and Zion extracts them, for those who choose to take the Redpill. If you think we are going to stand by&amp;nbsp;and watch them be recycled or even let those Redpills fill the ranks of the Machines Army or Cypherite Terrorists, them your more stupid than I thought.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So much for the freedom of choice Zion and EPN are always talking about.&amp;nbsp; People are free to choose, but only if they pick the &amp;#39;right&amp;#39; choice.&amp;nbsp; Who&amp;#39;s to say that every bluepill you free will want to stay with the org that extracted them?&amp;nbsp; Will you keep them imprisoned in New Zion, or will they not be permitted to live?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;cite&gt;xenin wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;nbsp;As for Machinists Leaving Zion and joining The Machines, I don&amp;#39;t have a problem with that, so long as they understand that they will be shot on sight and killed.&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Oh wait, you answered my question right there.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;Oh look, here comes little Miss Perfect, The Holier Art Than Thou, the self rightchoues moron. You just did what some, if not most, Machinists do. You borrowed some of our quotes, twisted the meaning of the quote, in this case my quotes, and completely ignore whatever Zionites say thereafter.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;Also I prefer you did NOT use my quotes for your Propaganda Machine. This was What I was trying to tell Vinia when she accused me of using supposed&amp;nbsp;Propaganda, Machinists are no different than any other org.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;Also I don&amp;#39;t recall wanting your opinion, Cypherite, well your clearly no Machinist because of your attitude. Plus I was talking to Vinia, NEVER You. So kindly *CENSORED* off and get out of my face, you horrid little *CENSORED*.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;((I would like to point out for legal reasons, that was all RP))&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria is as welcome to post here as anyone is, she can also quote anything said by anyone if she wants to. When quoting she didn&amp;#39;t alter any of your words, she merely highlighted what you said in the exact same context as you wrote it. If you didn&amp;#39;t want her opinion, why post in a public forum? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Plus I said you must have been listening to propaganda or misinformation, I never stated that you were promulgating it intentionally. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;As for your disgraceful outburst, I&amp;#39;ll let Illyria respond for herself if she chooses to, but I wouldn&amp;#39;t blame her if she just laughed and walked off!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 05:47:35 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;Disgraceful outburst yes I suppose it was. Yet she&amp;#39;s a disgrace for endorsing a collection of Homocidal maniacs who kill at the soonest, as is anyone else that does for that matter. Oh did I mention she thinks of us as &amp;quot;Cave Dwelling primitives&amp;quot; which makes her slightly Arrogant as well. I mean let&amp;#39;s face it, you Machinists are a collection of Self Rightcheous individuals who think they are better than Zionites and Mervs.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;I could say Zionites are arrogant on occasion, but getting anhiliated by Sentinals, having the Old City destroyed and being attacked just for the reason of existing, really just makes one more humble to the situation. If anyone needs to learn Humility it&amp;#39;s you people, biased as this may seem, but The Machines are the one&amp;#39;s with all the Big Forces. Let&amp;#39;s face it, you won&amp;#39;t learn Humility until you know how it feels to be on the verge of defeat.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;((Again this is all RP, just in case anyone is offended OOC wise.))&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:33:19 GMT</pubDate>
<author>xenin</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;xenin wrote:&lt;/cite&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;Disgraceful outburst yes I suppose it was. Yet she&amp;#39;s a disgrace for endorsing a collection of Homocidal maniacs who kill at the soonest, as is anyone else that does for that matter. Oh did I mention she thinks of us as &amp;quot;Cave Dwelling primitives&amp;quot; which makes her slightly Arrogant as well. I mean let&amp;#39;s face it, you Machinists are a collection of Self Rightcheous individuals who think they are better than Zionites and Mervs.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;I could say Zionites are arrogant on occasion, but getting anhiliated by Sentinals, having the Old City destroyed and being attacked just for the reason of existing, really just makes one more humble to the situation. If anyone needs to learn Humility it&amp;#39;s you people, biased as this may seem, but The Machines are the one&amp;#39;s with all the Big Forces. Let&amp;#39;s face it, you won&amp;#39;t learn Humility until you know how it feels to be on the verge of defeat.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;((Again this is all RP, just in case anyone is offended OOC wise.))&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Where did she endorse a collection of homicidal maniacs? As for what she thinks of you, that&amp;#39;s her opinion to which she&amp;#39;s perfectly entitled, the same way you are entitled to believe that Machinists are a collection of self righteous individuals.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Arrogance is not a byproduct of being humble in fact it&amp;#39;s Human arrogance that precipitated the war in the first place. Also Illyria&amp;#39;s humility shines through her final statement. She did not say that she will end the war or be instrumental in its completion,&amp;nbsp;she merely stated her hope for&amp;nbsp;a bright future for all races.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:00:04 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;What Started this War was Fear and Assumptions, not Human&amp;nbsp;Arrogance. Besides which, I don&amp;#39;t see how starting another argument about who started the War is going to make a difference, considering that I, and many others,&amp;nbsp;think the Machinists are wrong on who started War and are no longer willing to listen to their arguments on it.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;As for a Better Future, well your going to have to ask the Oracle if it comes true. She thinks everything will turn out for the best and I hope it does.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;Sometimes I think Illyria&amp;#39;s thoughts are the precipitation of several arguments.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;((Lol I just spelt it Homocidal instead of Homicidal on my last post))&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:16:54 GMT</pubDate>
<author>xenin</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;xenin wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;What Started this War was Fear and Assumptions, not Human&amp;nbsp;Arrogance. Besides which, I don&amp;#39;t see how starting another argument about who started the War is going to make a difference, considering that I, and many others,&amp;nbsp;think the Machinists are wrong on who started War and are no longer willing to listen to their arguments on it.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;As for a Better Future, well your going to have to ask the Oracle if it comes true. She thinks everything will turn out for the best and I hope it does.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;Sometimes I think Illyria&amp;#39;s thoughts are the precipitation of several arguments.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff3333;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;((Lol I just spelt it Homocidal instead of Homicidal on my last post))&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;No, what ended the &lt;i&gt;truce&lt;/i&gt; was fear and assumption on both sides,&amp;nbsp;it was Human arrogance that started the &lt;i&gt;war&lt;/i&gt;. I&amp;#39;m not intending it to be an argument, the Zion archive file on the second&amp;nbsp;rennaisance shows the arrogance of man. It is that Human arrogance that started the chain of events which caused Human humbleness and since you said that Zionites are still arrogant shows that they haven&amp;#39;t learnt from history.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:35:20 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;[...]&amp;nbsp;it was Human arrogance that started the &lt;i&gt;war&lt;/i&gt;. I&amp;#39;m not intending it to be an argument, the Zion archive file on the second&amp;nbsp;rennaisance shows the arrogance of man. It is that Human arrogance that started the chain of events which caused Human humbleness and since you said that Zionites are still arrogant shows that they haven&amp;#39;t learnt from history.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Er... Vinia? You -do- know that Zions archieve files come from 01, right? For all we know, whatever we know about the past could be a lie created by the Machines. Since the past that we &amp;quot;know&amp;quot; of through the data provided by our most humble and truthful Machine Overlords (which I just so willingly submit to *bows*) shows US as the agressors of the first Human - Machine war. Thus it was, based on the &amp;quot;data&amp;quot;, a rather unjustified war, which has become nothing more than a farce as Zion was built (who built the first Zion is irrelevant) and then has become a war for revenge&amp;nbsp;(through that &amp;quot;history&amp;quot; which we &amp;quot;know&amp;quot; of) for the unjustice Machine has done to us in return, though it can be justified for the first return, not the for the other 6 returns over the past 1000 years.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Since&amp;nbsp;all&amp;nbsp;data provided for us&amp;nbsp;was&amp;nbsp;provided by a non-crediteable source (since it&amp;#39;s the ONLY source, credibility of such things don&amp;#39;t really stands high)&lt;/b&gt; the war of the past could easily have been the other way &amp;#39;round. That the Machines were the first to go to war. What would this change? It would change&amp;nbsp;the&amp;nbsp;fact&amp;nbsp;of&amp;nbsp;an &amp;quot;unjustified&amp;nbsp;war&amp;nbsp;and&amp;nbsp;war&amp;nbsp;of&amp;nbsp;revenge&amp;quot;&amp;nbsp;to a war that has become &amp;#39;justified&amp;#39; for more than 1000 years, for more than just the current population of the Machines, but for every Machine population over the next hundreds of years. Annihilation of them would then be nothig more than &amp;quot;returning the favour&amp;quot;, though I&amp;#39;m not a fan of that.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of course, you could call me insane for doubting the credibility of the Machines sources of data, but hey, it&amp;#39;s not&amp;nbsp;like that they lie to millions of people every day, now, do they?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Important EDIT: What does this show us? History is worthless. Why? Because the history that goes farther back than this Cycle is completely irrelevant and credibility&amp;nbsp;about&amp;nbsp;it is zero. Yes, history is irrelevant. Stop dwelling over it, stop using it as argument points (omg you started the freaking war back then, be happy that our beloved Machines keep us alive), because it simply does not work. Where does this lead us to? Only one conclusion: Without that irrelevant history we can free ourselves from the chains of the past and work together ... probably.&lt;br /&gt;But since there is no proof, nor disproof that the history known to us is &amp;#39;real&amp;#39; (another form of a matrix, another form of control), history, even though completely irrelevant no matter how you look at it at our current situation, holds us down. Another form of control and for waht we know, it could very well be another mechanism introduced by the Machines.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- GG&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;P.S.: The last sub-sentence need not necessarily apply to bluepills. There are other living beings around too, you know.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;EDIT P.P.S.: History I&amp;#39;m referring to goes back to beyond this cycle.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:17:28 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GoDGiVeR</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>No I don&amp;#39;t know that, where has that been mentioned in cannon?&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:08:25 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;No I don&amp;#39;t know that, where has that been mentioned in cannon?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;its indirectly hinted at when the Architect revealed that Zion&amp;nbsp;was rebuilt several times over and the city along with its founders all Machine produced.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:24:25 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;No I don&amp;#39;t know that, where has that been mentioned in cannon?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;its indirectly hinted at when the Architect revealed that Zion&amp;nbsp;was rebuilt several times over and the city along with its founders all Machine produced.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;So you think that the first Humans would just go along with what the Machines tell them? When the Machines came to attack the first time, the Human inhabitants of Zion wouldn&amp;#39;t have tried to hide their records to be found later on? It&amp;#39;s a possibility, sure I can&amp;#39;t deny it, but until you have proof that the Archive is a Machine fabrication it is the only reference to the origin of the conflict. Also why doesn&amp;#39;t Zion alter it to suggest that the Machine attacked first?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If we are to doubt the only source available then who is to say that Mankind was ever free? Or even indigenous to the planet, we could have been grown in a Machine lab invented to provide the Machines with power...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#39;ve not known the Machines to Lie, to make stuff up. Sure they&amp;#39;ve not provided all of the details for events before and they&amp;#39;ve kept Humans in the simulation but it&amp;#39;s the Humans who convinced themselves its real, the Machines just made a simulation as close to past society as possible and neglected to mention to the masses that it isn&amp;#39;t real... but the absence of truth isn&amp;#39;t a lie.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:32:28 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;No I don&amp;#39;t know that, where has that been mentioned in cannon?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;its indirectly hinted at when the Architect revealed that Zion&amp;nbsp;was rebuilt several times over and the city along with its founders all Machine produced.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;So you think that the first Humans would just go along with what the Machines tell them?&amp;nbsp; When the Machines came to attack the first time, the Human inhabitants of Zion wouldn&amp;#39;t have tried to hide their records to be found later on? It&amp;#39;s a possibility, sure I can&amp;#39;t deny it, but until you have proof that the Archive is a Machine fabrication it is the only reference to the origin of the conflict. Also why doesn&amp;#39;t Zion alter it to suggest that the Machine attacked first?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If we are to doubt the only source available then who is to say that Mankind was ever free? Or even indigenous to the planet, we could have been grown in a Machine lab invented to provide the Machines with power...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yes actully I do, seeings as the Machine has a talent for weaveing and selling very tall tales and makeing people believe what it wants them to. The archive shows nothing more then a black and white history which lets face it, history has never been that black and white. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;And why not doubt it? Everything else has been fabricated. Zion&amp;#39;s history, fake. Purpose for the pods, fake. First 10-20 years of our lives, fake. The prophacy, fake. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:50:27 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;No I don&amp;#39;t know that, where has that been mentioned in cannon?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;its indirectly hinted at when the Architect revealed that Zion&amp;nbsp;was rebuilt several times over and the city along with its founders all Machine produced.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;So you think that the first Humans would just go along with what the Machines tell them?&amp;nbsp; When the Machines came to attack the first time, the Human inhabitants of Zion wouldn&amp;#39;t have tried to hide their records to be found later on? It&amp;#39;s a possibility, sure I can&amp;#39;t deny it, but until you have proof that the Archive is a Machine fabrication it is the only reference to the origin of the conflict. Also why doesn&amp;#39;t Zion alter it to suggest that the Machine attacked first?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If we are to doubt the only source available then who is to say that Mankind was ever free? Or even indigenous to the planet, we could have been grown in a Machine lab invented to provide the Machines with power...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yes actully I do, seeings as the Machine has a talent for weaveing and selling very tall tales and makeing people believe what it wants them to. The archive shows nothing more then a black and white history which lets face it, history has never been that black and white. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;And why not doubt it? Everything else has been fabricated. Zion&amp;#39;s history, fake. Purpose for the pods, fake. First 10-20 years of our lives, fake. The prophacy, fake. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;I don&amp;#39;t remember the machine telling Zion their history that is done by Human assumption. The purpose for the pods is well known, just because they may not be the only source doesn&amp;#39;t mean that they are unneeded. We convinced ourselves that our lives were real, the simulation was there to make us more comfortable we were never specifically told it is real and not a simulation. The prophecy again, depends on how you look at it... there was a man born that could bend the system to his will and that the one will show again. True the rest is Human telling tall tales around the core truth. The Machines give enough true information to let Humankind expand on the truth and believe in something.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As for the archive, it wasn&amp;#39;t black and white, Man Vs. Machine. The original machine marches had humans mixed with them. It is more likely that, if the Machines did plant the Archive there, it was to make humans realise that their enslavement was brought on by their own actions, and to convince them that the Machine race is superior to the Human race.</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:04:34 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;No I don&amp;#39;t know that, where has that been mentioned in cannon?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;its indirectly hinted at when the Architect revealed that Zion&amp;nbsp;was rebuilt several times over and the city along with its founders all Machine produced.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;So you think that the first Humans would just go along with what the Machines tell them? When the Machines came to attack the first time, the Human inhabitants of Zion wouldn&amp;#39;t have tried to hide their records to be found later on? [...] Also why doesn&amp;#39;t Zion alter it to suggest that the Machine attacked first?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;How amusing. Each Zion was grown to belief it&amp;#39;s the last city on earth defending it&amp;#39;s people from bloodthirsty Machines who keep other humans as batteries in endless fields. That knowledge alone is enough to make everybody belief that the (artificially placed,&amp;nbsp;like everything else in Zion (not New Zion)) records are true. How wonderful the human psyche works. The greater the hardship, the easier to think that it cannot be real, but exactly that horror makes people fear reality, keeping them controlled, binding them to the truth that is reality.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;I doubt that&amp;nbsp;one&amp;nbsp;of&amp;nbsp;the Zions would have allocated resources to place history records somewhere on the planet (most likely at a location where it could be found by other humans, but not Machines), while they were trying hard to surive a harsh war where each Hovercraft was worth more than any data records Zion had. Also, why leave history behind? They grew up with the knowledge (they believed) that there is noone else than them and the Machines. Such things would have been labeled as crazy by all of Zion.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Everybody in Zion grew up with knowing the records. Every single day they lived knowing (what they were supposed to know, as we know now). Altering the records? It would have just confused Zion itself and during a war, what&amp;#39;s most dangerous, is uncertainty within.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;It&amp;#39;s a possibility, sure I can&amp;#39;t deny it, but until you have proof that the Archive is a Machine fabrication it is the only reference to the origin of the conflict.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Proof that it&amp;#39;s not fake. Alas, history is, once again, worthless in our situation.&lt;cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;I&amp;#39;ve not known the Machines to Lie, to make stuff up. Sure they&amp;#39;ve not provided all of the details for events before and they&amp;#39;ve kept Humans in the simulation but it&amp;#39;s the Humans who convinced themselves its real, the Machines just made a simulation as close to past society as possible and neglected to mention to the masses that it isn&amp;#39;t real... but the absence of truth isn&amp;#39;t a lie.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;The cave parabel of Platon, do you know it? The Matrix is the cave and we are the shadows. Shadows are real, but they are not what&amp;#39;s behind it, and so naming the shadows as the&amp;nbsp;real&amp;nbsp;deal&amp;nbsp;is&amp;nbsp;a&amp;nbsp;lie,&amp;nbsp;thus&amp;nbsp;the&amp;nbsp;Matrix&amp;nbsp;is&amp;nbsp;a&amp;nbsp;lie. Thus the Matrix is also &amp;quot;made-up stuff&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Machines are more than enough capable of lieing. Lieing is not telling the truth. Withholding the truth is essentially lieing, too. And belief me, in the last 3 years they&amp;#39;ve withheld more than just a few things and still do.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;[...] but the absence of truth isn&amp;#39;t a lie.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;No, it&amp;#39;s a fact.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- GG&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:09:19 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GoDGiVeR</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt; It is more likely that, if the Machines did plant the Archive there, it was to make humans realise that their enslavement was brought on by their own actions, and to convince them that the Machine race is superior to the Human race.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Indeed, exactly that is what happens. If that history is true or not, by planting such history, it creates control and predictability, thus creating a good basis on which they can build the One-Cycle.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- GG&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:11:55 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GoDGiVeR</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>Ok, so that history may or may not be false, will you say that Mankind were still the ones to Scorch the sky to prevent the Machines from drawing power from the sun? If they did then it was Mankind&amp;#39;s Arrogance in believing that they could destroy the Machines and it was that which brought about the requirement for the Pods even if they are not the sole source...&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:27:07 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;No I don&amp;#39;t know that, where has that been mentioned in cannon?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;its indirectly hinted at when the Architect revealed that Zion&amp;nbsp;was rebuilt several times over and the city along with its founders all Machine produced.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;So you think that the first Humans would just go along with what the Machines tell them?&amp;nbsp; When the Machines came to attack the first time, the Human inhabitants of Zion wouldn&amp;#39;t have tried to hide their records to be found later on? It&amp;#39;s a possibility, sure I can&amp;#39;t deny it, but until you have proof that the Archive is a Machine fabrication it is the only reference to the origin of the conflict. Also why doesn&amp;#39;t Zion alter it to suggest that the Machine attacked first?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If we are to doubt the only source available then who is to say that Mankind was ever free? Or even indigenous to the planet, we could have been grown in a Machine lab invented to provide the Machines with power...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yes actully I do, seeings as the Machine has a talent for weaveing and selling very tall tales and makeing people believe what it wants them to. The archive shows nothing more then a black and white history which lets face it, history has never been that black and white. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;And why not doubt it? Everything else has been fabricated. Zion&amp;#39;s history, fake. Purpose for the pods, fake. First 10-20 years of our lives, fake. The prophacy, fake. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;I don&amp;#39;t remember the machine telling Zion their history that is done by Human assumption. The purpose for the pods is well known, just because they may not be the only source doesn&amp;#39;t mean that they are unneeded. We convinced ourselves that our lives were real, the simulation was there to make us more comfortable we were never specifically told it is real and not a simulation. The prophecy again, depends on how you look at it... there was a man born that could bend the system to his will and that the one will show again. True the rest is Human telling tall tales around the core truth. The Machines give enough true information to let Humankind expand on the truth and believe in something.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As for the archive, it wasn&amp;#39;t black and white, Man Vs. Machine. The original machine marches had humans mixed with them. It is more likely that, if the Machines did plant the Archive there, it was to make humans realise that their enslavement was brought on by their own actions, and to convince them that the Machine race is superior to the Human race.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Human assumption set into motion by whom? Every action has a reaction and you don&amp;#39;t just start believing something without any reason to do so. As I said the Machine has a talent for what it does and&amp;nbsp;is very good and seemingly eraseing its presence when needed but even so they are very much the one responcible for everyhting we think we know. After all look how much it has benifited them keeping Zion in the dark.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;And yes the Archive is very much&amp;nbsp;black and white.&amp;nbsp;Color is only added once you get past the ideas it tries to push and start asking questions.&amp;nbsp;Key elements such as the reasoning for actions or the actions of other groups are left out completly. Notice how there is no mention of any Machine that may have agreed with the ruleing? Or how the only mention of humans that disagreed was in a&amp;nbsp;quick news report? The picture that the Archive paints is that we are to assume that it was simply Man vs Machine. But to give it some credit it does a lovely job (despite popular opinion) of keeping a netural stance and shows both sides flaws equally.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:06:08 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;Human assumption set into motion by whom? Every action has a reaction and you don&amp;#39;t just start believing something without any reason to do so. As I said the Machine has a talent for what it does and&amp;nbsp;is very good and seemingly eraseing its presence when needed but even so they are very much the one responcible for everyhting we think we know. After all look how much it has benifited them keeping Zion in the dark.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As I said in order to get someone to think in such a way or to believe in something you only need to give them a tiny bit of information and the truth is easier to seed than a falsehood. Humankind could choose to ignore the information but the mind has to build up around it to try to find more that what is present. It is Mankind&amp;#39;s curiosity which sets assumption into motion. The Machines are good at what they do, they understand, albeit in a limited way, how a human mind works and use that knowledge to their advantage, but that doesn&amp;#39;t mean that its an outright lie.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:43:09 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;Human assumption set into motion by whom? Every action has a reaction and you don&amp;#39;t just start believing something without any reason to do so. As I said the Machine has a talent for what it does and&amp;nbsp;is very good and seemingly eraseing its presence when needed but even so they are very much the one responcible for everyhting we think we know. After all look how much it has benifited them keeping Zion in the dark.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As I said in order to get someone to think in such a way or to believe in something you only need to give them a tiny bit of information and the truth is easier to seed than a falsehood. Humankind could choose to ignore the information but the mind has to build up around it to try to find more that what is present. It is Mankind&amp;#39;s curiosity which sets assumption into motion. The Machines are good at what they do, they understand, albeit in a limited way, how a human mind works and use that knowledge to their advantage, but that doesn&amp;#39;t mean that its an outright lie.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Exactly what information is being presented to tell us any different? It wasn&amp;#39;t until we started asking that it suddenly became clear and even then we have had to fight tooth and nail to get what little knowledge we have of the truth in the first place. Sorry but everything&amp;nbsp;humanity has been given and told was clearly apart of the machine&amp;#39;s control and never intended to be factual in anyway unless it fit into the Machine&amp;#39;s plan.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The system even now fights to maintain its lies and anyone who tries to not ignore it is hunted down. Who runs and created&amp;nbsp;the system? The Machine&lt;br /&gt;The prophecy was told to keep us all in line only to&amp;nbsp;lead us&amp;nbsp;to obliteration. Who was it that came up with this idea in the first place? The Machine.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The history of this war is no different then any of these and&amp;nbsp;has no other purpose then to confuse, cover up, and keep Zion in the dark as to what really did happen. Is everything in it bull crap? No idea but given the Machine&amp;#39;s current track record it certainly looks like it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:05:01 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.2] Snug in our beds forever and ever - Syntax - 1/17/08</title>
<description>Was the Archive planted for control? I cannot deny that it might well have been. I can offer no evidence to the contrary.&lt;br /&gt;Is it telling falsehoods? You cannot deny that it isn&amp;#39;t lying to you. You can offer no evidence to the contrary.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Machines may have a history of manipulation and control, it is their nature. Mankind has a rich history of violence and conflict, it is still in our nature.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Personally I cannot see any reason &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; to believe what the archive said and it seems that you cannot see any reason &lt;i&gt;to&lt;/i&gt; believe what it says.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Once again this comes down to our beliefs and it does not seem that either of us are going to be able to convince the other.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:25:00 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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