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<title>Latest posts for the topic &quot;[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08&quot;</title>
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<description>Latest messages posted in the topic &quot;[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08&quot;</description>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;CODEMAN wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Are Machines even capable of lying? I know they will withold information if deemed necessary, but I don&amp;#39;t think they lie.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;((I think this came up in the Matrix Universe forum or somewhere.&amp;nbsp; I have absolutely no idea why people would think that machines can&amp;#39;t lie.&amp;nbsp; I can code a program right now that lies.&amp;nbsp; I can ask if the sky is blue and it will respond &amp;quot;no.&amp;quot; No big deal))&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:28:11 GMT</pubDate>
<author>-Collbard-</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>Technically a machine cannot lie.&amp;nbsp; This is truer though in a mathematical sense than in the sense of conversation with humans.&amp;nbsp; When Collbard asks his program about the sky, it gives the correct response - the programmed response, even if that response is &amp;#39;wrong&amp;#39; so far as personal comprehension is concerned.&amp;nbsp; The fact of the matter is that the Machines we deal with in the Matrix are honest but deceptive.&amp;nbsp; The truth they tell you might not be the truth you think you hear.&amp;nbsp; &lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:43:57 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Cadsuane</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Cadsuane wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Technically a machine cannot lie.&amp;nbsp; This is truer though in a mathematical sense than in the sense of conversation with humans.&amp;nbsp; When Collbard asks his program about the sky, it gives the correct response - the programmed response, even if that response is &amp;#39;wrong&amp;#39; so far as personal comprehension is concerned.&amp;nbsp; The fact of the matter is that the Machines we deal with in the Matrix are honest but deceptive.&amp;nbsp; The truth they tell you might not be the truth you think you hear.&amp;nbsp; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And again, The Matrix, Reinsertion, Halbron&amp;#39;s meeting with the Architect. Three cases where the Machines have lflat out lied.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Matrix is the biggest lie of theirs. It tells people that this is the only world and the real one.&lt;br /&gt;Reinsertion was pushed along by the Machines and not until confronted about the topic did they admit that it was in fact not possible when many had already been told by them they were to be reinserted.&lt;br /&gt;The Architect lied to Halbron telling him that they had no knowledge of the BIP.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Machine&amp;#39;s we deal with are far more advanced then any mathematical algorithm. They are able to decide if they will or will not give a right answer to a question posed to them.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:53:43 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;CODEMAN wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Are Machines even capable of lying? I know they will withold information if deemed necessary, but I don&amp;#39;t think they lie.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;This actually was a terrible question on my part. I should&amp;#39;ve thought about it more before I asked such a loaded question because everyone would have a different answer depending on their respective Orgs. Some would say that the&amp;nbsp;Matrix itself is a lie, and some would argue that&amp;nbsp;the&amp;nbsp;redpill is a lie, etc. etc. etc.&amp;nbsp; The essence of a Cold War.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:27:04 GMT</pubDate>
<author>CODEMAN</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>I&amp;#39;m a machinist telling you that machines and programs can lie.&amp;nbsp; It&amp;#39;s simple.&amp;nbsp; I can create a program like a calculator, but when certain values are true, false values will be displayed.&amp;nbsp; For example, 1 + 2 = 2.&amp;nbsp; If value is 2 display 3.&amp;nbsp; We can see this with true or false problems as well.&amp;nbsp; If true, display false.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:15:06 GMT</pubDate>
<author>-Collbard-</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>*looks for her socks* Man, this event blew my socks off! #%! &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; /&gt; A very nice event and great gratz to Uzz. Rp on Vector, it happens &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:20:38 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Synapse777</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;In this case, I believe Griffin wasn&amp;#39;t lying.&amp;nbsp; If he was, GetThemAll could have just reconstructed his RSI.&amp;nbsp; No harm, no foul.&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp;Granted we are only privvy to portions of what happened so it&amp;#39;s difficult to determine the absolute truth.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In any event, this was a very intriguing report.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:48:38 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Garu</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;span style=&quot;color: #0066ff;&quot;&gt;Yeah, sure, if he had EJP or wasn&amp;#39;t just some random Self-Substantiated bluepill.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:49:37 GMT</pubDate>
<author>ZippyTheSquirrel</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #0066ff;&quot;&gt;Yeah, sure, if he had EJP or wasn&amp;#39;t just some random Self-Substantiated bluepill.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yeah, because that happens regularly. Self substantiation is rare enough,&amp;nbsp;A self substantiated bluepill that hasn&amp;#39;t&amp;nbsp;been disconnected from the simulation and removed from the pods&amp;nbsp;would seem unlikely.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Garu, I&amp;#39;m a bit confused though. Regardless if Agent Griffin was lying or not, an exile (unless backed up) would not be able to reconstruct and a bluepill would be the same. The only thing we can see from the report&amp;nbsp;is that GetEmAll did not reconstruct, but that doesn&amp;#39;t indicate if he was Human or Program.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In any case I&amp;#39;ve not heard of an Agent actually lying to someone. Not telling the full truth, ok, but&amp;nbsp;never outright lying. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;As for the truthfulness of the simulation, the Machines do not tell bluepills that the simulation is real, bluepills do that themselves. Define real though.&amp;nbsp;The only difference between a brick in the simulation and a brick in the real is what it&amp;#39;s made of, stone or code. You can say that&amp;nbsp;the virtual brick isn&amp;#39;t really there, but its code is there, the thing that it&amp;#39;s made from, are you saying that the code isn&amp;#39;t real?&amp;nbsp;What are you looking at then? Just because it isn&amp;#39;t tangeble from outside the simulation... the &amp;#39;real&amp;#39; world isn&amp;#39;t tangeble from inside the simulation, so is the simulation real? I guess it depends on your viewpoint. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Reminds me of the quote &amp;#39;am I a man who dreamed he was a butterfly or am I butterfly dreaming that I am a man?&amp;#39;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:09:10 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>A refreshing event for Vector.&amp;nbsp; Very well done!&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:48:14 GMT</pubDate>
<author>machete</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Garu, I&amp;#39;m a bit confused though. Regardless if Agent Griffin was lying or not, an exile (unless backed up) would not be able to reconstruct and a bluepill would be the same. The only thing we can see from the report&amp;nbsp;is that GetEmAll did not reconstruct, but that doesn&amp;#39;t indicate if he was Human or Program.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In any case I&amp;#39;ve not heard of an Agent actually lying to someone. Not telling the full truth, ok, but&amp;nbsp;never outright lying. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That&amp;#39;s the point I was trying to make.&amp;nbsp; If GetEmAll was a human operative then he&amp;#39;d just reconstruct.&amp;nbsp; Griffin&amp;#39;s termination would mean nothing.&amp;nbsp; He&amp;#39;d continue trying to kill his doppleganger.&amp;nbsp; Since he does not reconstruct and remains &amp;quot;dead&amp;quot; I can only presume that Griffin wasn&amp;#39;t lying.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Nevertheless, because we are only shown pieces of what happened, it&amp;#39;s hard to make a confident conclusion.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;As far as programs lying...yes they can.&amp;nbsp; Machines are sentient enough to make their own decisions.&amp;nbsp; If they discern it is beneficial and advantageous to lie or manipulate they will and have.&amp;nbsp; Many of them do.&amp;nbsp; Do I include Agents in that group?&amp;nbsp; Yes.&amp;nbsp; It&amp;#39;s not impossible.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:05:52 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Garu</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;That&amp;#39;s the point I was trying to make.&amp;nbsp; If GetEmAll was a human operative then he&amp;#39;d just reconstruct.&amp;nbsp; Griffin&amp;#39;s termination would mean nothing.&amp;nbsp; He&amp;#39;d continue trying to kill his doppleganger.&amp;nbsp; Since he does not reconstruct and remains &amp;quot;dead&amp;quot; I can only presume that Griffin wasn&amp;#39;t lying.&lt;p&gt;Nevertheless, because we are only shown pieces of what happened, it&amp;#39;s hard to make a confident conclusion.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;As far as programs lying...yes they can.&amp;nbsp; Machines are sentient enough to make their own decisions.&amp;nbsp; If they discern it is beneficial and advantageous to lie or manipulate they will and have.&amp;nbsp; Many of them do.&amp;nbsp; Do I include Agents in that group?&amp;nbsp; Yes.&amp;nbsp; It&amp;#39;s not impossible.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Ah, Ok its just that Griffin said he was a program not a Human operative, that&amp;#39;s where I got a bit confused!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also I wasn&amp;#39;t suggesting that Agents can&amp;#39;t lie, I&amp;#39;ve just not heard of them doing so.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:23:49 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;I think we all learned from this event that...&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;*****es don&amp;#39;t know about my Agent Griffin. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Whether he&amp;#39;s shooting people in the back, to come in and take all the glory from the lime-light, or telling straight-up to peoples&amp;#39; faces that they fail at everything. He&amp;#39;s one cold-hearted motha&amp;#39;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:42:37 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Ballak</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;p&gt;If GetEmAll was a human operative then he&amp;#39;d just reconstruct.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Unless the Machines had [fill in the blank] his [fill in the blank].&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:25:01 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Rarebit</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Rarebit wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;p&gt;If GetEmAll was a human operative then he&amp;#39;d just reconstruct.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Unless the Machines had [fill in the blank] his [fill in the blank].&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;locked; signal</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:31:33 GMT</pubDate>
<author>CPT_Starschwar</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>Dammit uzz! lucky you! why wasnt i there! *cry*&lt;br /&gt;i would have taken grif out big time &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; /&gt; lol&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:18:29 GMT</pubDate>
<author>azarazamataz</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Rarebit wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;p&gt;If GetEmAll was a human operative then he&amp;#39;d just reconstruct.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Unless the Machines had [fill in the blank] his [fill in the blank].&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Fried his jack.&amp;nbsp; Cut his cord.&amp;nbsp; Killed his wife.&amp;nbsp; Surfed his waves.&amp;nbsp; Eaten his sandwich.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:36:12 GMT</pubDate>
<author>-Collbard-</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>Oh not the sandwich.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:25:56 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Rarebit</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;-Collbard- wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Rarebit wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;p&gt;If GetEmAll was a human operative then he&amp;#39;d just reconstruct.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Unless the Machines had [fill in the blank] his [fill in the blank].&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Fried his jack.&amp;nbsp; Cut his cord.&amp;nbsp; Killed his wife.&amp;nbsp; Surfed his waves.&amp;nbsp; Eaten his sandwich.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;They Rick Rolled his family, and they thought they Rick Rolled him too...&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;They were wrong.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:32:59 GMT</pubDate>
<author>TheShickle</author>
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<title>Re:[10.2.4] &quot;Because I wear a uniform and a title&quot; - Vector - 6/6/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Rarebit wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;p&gt;If GetEmAll was a human operative then he&amp;#39;d just reconstruct.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Unless the Machines had [fill in the blank] his [fill in the blank].&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Copied his Details? &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<link>http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/posts/list.m?topic_id=36300023631&amp;post_id=36300467502#36300467502</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:36:24 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Othinn1</author>
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