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<title>Latest posts for the topic &quot;Upgrade Attacks Overpowered&quot;</title>
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<description>Latest messages posted in the topic &quot;Upgrade Attacks Overpowered&quot;</description>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>What would solve the &apos;issue&apos; of hackers in interlock would be to activate their re-use timers when they activate a special in interlock. Every other interlock class has the same re-use timer penalty, so why not hackers?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt;revolt_&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:16:49 GMT</pubDate>
<author>&gt;revolt_</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;Im trying to make the game better and balanced.  Im not trying to be selfish and destroy the game for you so I look better.  Everything ive posted is accurate.   My agenda is to make this game better not make my chosen class the most powerful because im too lazy to switch.  Theres a difference.&lt;span&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Cryshal wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;p&gt;..right. an issue for him.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;is there anything else we can do for you, good sir?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:35:28 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Renesis13B</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>How can be this applied without doing hacker a dummy class at interlock? So far, many of the MA special abilities require states to be used. Still, fighting classes have inherent bonuses for melee combat, that make them the standing classes for fighting.&lt;br&gt;This is not true with hacker. Every ability it&apos;s treated as special. If there are not status requirements, it&apos;s because the abilities create them with a small chance to succeed to overcome the need to use a melee action, compared against MA classes.&lt;br&gt;Now. What are you talking about the reuse penalty? True, a hacker pulls one special after other in succession, but there are reuse timers applied. Please, elaborate on this.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;TekMon, The New Order</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:52:33 GMT</pubDate>
<author>TekMon</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>MA&apos;s and Gun classes cant use specials back to back.  They have to wait at least one round in between attacks while the timers expire.  Hackers in interlock dont have this restriction which allows them to do more damage in less time than other trees.&lt;br&gt;Even if we have hybrid builds switching them during interlock still gives us a 1 round penalty which defeats the purpose.&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:32:58 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Renesis13B</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>So the problem persists, because hacker is all special moves. The only and reasonable alternative might be the recreation of the hacker abilities, in such form, that there could be non-special abilities, better suited for IL.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As it is, it looks like we&apos;re stuck. I&apos;m not able to see a change on hacker, with the combat model in use, that allows a clearly distinction between melee and range attacks.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Being the current state of things, maybe we should propose a new set of abilities for the tree, besides looking for any potential exploit or clear unbalance.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;TekMon, The New Order</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:07:15 GMT</pubDate>
<author>TekMon</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>Nah, they just have to activate all the re-use timers when a hack is being used by a hacker in interlock. The same as with Kung Fu martial artists and their special abilities. Those too can&apos;t hammer special after special against their opponent, or can they?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt;revolt_&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:59:00 GMT</pubDate>
<author>&gt;revolt_</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>Another option we have available is that we can change which abilities can be used in interlock. Maybe there are just too many usable in IL at the moment.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I imagine that this will most likely be one of the first balance issues addressed post - CR2. Options so far:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1. Apply further accuracy penalties to hacker abilities used in interlock&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;2. Review the family timers for hacker abilities (although preventing back-to-back IL usage would also prevent back-to-back out-of-IL usage as well, with the current system, and a rework of the system would be so far down the road as to prevent this from being a timely balance)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;3. Reduce the number of viral attacks usable in IL (maybe combined with #2 so the ones that remain all share a common timer)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is all pending more feedback as well... as more players get better at the system I would expect to hear more feedback on exactly how balanced it feels right now.&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:10:23 GMT</pubDate>
<author>HCFrog</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Thanks for the response HCFrog.  I wish you could squeeze an update in before it goes live but I know time is very short right now.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Theres some good feedback &lt;a href=&quot;http://mxoboards.station.sony.com/matrix/board/message?board.id=epdiscussion&amp;message.id=6801&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; about the issues with timers etc starting at around page 5-6.&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;p&gt;Message Edited by Renesis13B on &lt;span class=&quot;date_text&quot;&gt;03-27-2006&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;time_text&quot;&gt;09:20 PM&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:11:56 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Renesis13B</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>Oh, I see now the difficulties behind the family timers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt;revolt_&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:13:01 GMT</pubDate>
<author>&gt;revolt_</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>You have some good ideas HCFrog, as you said we are going to see the live feedback.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But i love the idea of an abilities restriction in IL. But i would prefer it for the downgrades and upgrades only, It could seems logical that a hacker loose his accuracy in IL.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Keep the good job, can&apos;t wait for this afternoon  (Europe)&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:43:30 GMT</pubDate>
<author>errorist</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>Frog, From my point of view, mix of points 2 and 3 is a good compromise to balance hacker at interlock and ranged.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;First, the tree should be reworked to have offensive abilities clearly differenced. Something like what was done with Logic Cannon, now an ability used only outside IL. From there, a review at the timers will help to trim the overall effect.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Otherwise, as I said I don&apos;t foresee a way for a fair balance, because any change on DPS, activation and reuse timers, will shift the class one side or the other.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;TekMon, The New Order</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:32:30 GMT</pubDate>
<author>TekMon</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>Post removed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If you don&apos;t have something constructive to add to a thread, the best course of action is not to post.&lt;p&gt;Message Edited by TheJurymen on &lt;span class=date_text&gt;03-29-2006&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span class=time_text&gt;01:55 PM&lt;/span&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:32:10 GMT</pubDate>
<author>cryshal</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;hahahahaha&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;it was constructive, just not necessarily sympathetic to the apparently prevailing views of either the devs or this forums moderators, should  those be seperate entities.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;i think i and others (lots of others) have made ourselves quite clear that some of the changes to the hacker tree are.. less than palatable.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;bah typical men, swinging their penises around. log in and leave your chat log on then grep the file later for things like &amp;quot;viral&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;hack&amp;quot; and 90% of it, all 2 megabytes of it, will be ppl complaining about the changes to the UI. SOME of these MA ppl also use hacker too =D&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;pls pardon me, if i rubbed anyone the wrong way. i like to think we&apos;re all here for the betterment of the game. i know that the devs are reasonable ppl cuz they worked up ideas such as the ab vendor trade-in.. an excellent initiative, one which i might use too, to recoup some info and get things sorted. all i ever want to say is that cr2 is great, i never suggested otherwise.. just that some of these nips and tucks have been too severe.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;pay no mind to the MA&apos;s that duel 2 hackers and lose, or just barely win both or win one but lose the other fight BAD in a landslide, then immediately come running to the forum to cry about it.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;listen to us hackers, who pound it out, day by day, on missions with ppl half our level to help them build some info, or on farming runs so we can make the -cough- new abs we need, or on construct/hideout raids in the hopes of looting something cool =)&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:20:28 GMT</pubDate>
<author>cryshal</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>Hackers deserve no sympathy, it was the easiest tree to level up with.&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:25:33 GMT</pubDate>
<author>krytical</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>Please, krytical, we&apos;re trying to address the balance problems amongst the classes, not bringing up personal dislikes for this or that ability tree.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I went like 95% of my way to the 50&apos;s using Proxy Master, because I chose coder as my main tree. I went hacker later, as I found it to be the best for quick farming and to bring out support in the PvP battles my faction mates engaged. When Pandora&apos;s arrived, I went MA Kung-Fu, because the NPC were anti-hacker with a vengeance.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now, my defense of the hacker class comes from my vision that nerfing the class it&apos;s not a solution, but a problem by itself. Do you think that the class is still overpowered? Good! Bring out the facts, numbers and anything else that show that such thing it&apos;s happening at the live servers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Being that with a viral attack, against another player of my same level, I can&apos;t push over 500 points and that I don&apos;t have the same HP bonus the MA enjoy. I could say that I feel MA overpowered at IL now. A MA Karate Grand Master made over 700 points of damage, even with my resistance near the cap. Nevertheless, I think it was right and deserved for allowing the other player to break my defenses.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Every class must have the same opportunities to success. Every class must have their weakness and strengths balanced, because not everybody it&apos;s at PvP all the time. Hackers are no longer the overpowered class they were, though they still might be unbalanced under certain conditions. Please, don&apos;t cry nerf. It&apos;s better to advocate for balance.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;TekMon, The New Order</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:55:35 GMT</pubDate>
<author>TekMon</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>In my opinion hacker is fairly balanced right now. I definately don&apos;t think it needs to be taken down even more.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I agree it should not be the ownage in IL, this is obvious.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;However out of IL it should be doing very well.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;( and can someone confirm that the Whitfield Mark II&apos;s don&apos;t have viral accuracy buffs on them... I don&apos;t remember seeing it, and I know it was missing on EP a while ago.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:37:44 GMT</pubDate>
<author>LiquidZ</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;&lt;span&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;Renesis13B wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;Im not sure how that would solve the problem.&lt;span&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;LiquidZ wrote:&lt;br&gt;I think what might correct this is putting viral accuracy back on the program launchers...&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;Actually my logic here is that with the accuracy more on the launcher, people will rely on using &amp;quot;Upgrade Attacks&amp;quot; less. Hence the amount it boosts and be dropped.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Alot of the time to hack someone in pvp you MUST use upgrade attacks otherwise your hack will go through very rarely.  The exception is when people don&apos;t bother to activate or use viral resist or defense buffs. Then it all seems to work fine.&lt;br&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:48:14 GMT</pubDate>
<author>LiquidZ</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;LiquidZ wrote:&lt;br&gt;( and can someone confirm that the Whitfield Mark II&apos;s don&apos;t have viral accuracy buffs on them... I don&apos;t remember seeing it, and I know it was missing on EP a while ago.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The launcher doesn&apos;t have any viral accuracy bonus. Curious enough, it has a viral resistance bonus.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;TekMon, The New Order</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:11:29 GMT</pubDate>
<author>TekMon</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;&lt;span&gt;I see what your saying but if theres an ability that only costs 1 mem point and is that powerful  they are going to use it every chance they get.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;LiquidZ wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;span&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;Renesis13B wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;Im not sure how that would solve the problem.&lt;span&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;hr&gt;LiquidZ wrote:&lt;br&gt;I think what might correct this is putting viral accuracy back on the program launchers...&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;Actually my logic here is that with the accuracy more on the launcher, people will rely on using &amp;quot;Upgrade Attacks&amp;quot; less. Hence the amount it boosts and be dropped.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Alot of the time to hack someone in pvp you MUST use upgrade attacks otherwise your hack will go through very rarely.  The exception is when people don&apos;t bother to activate or use viral resist or defense buffs. Then it all seems to work fine.&lt;br&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:03:29 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Renesis13B</author>
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<title>Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered</title>
<description>Renesis, the same could be said for almost every ability in game, as many need only one slot of memory. &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; /&gt; Maybe if there&apos;s a small accuracy bonus at the launcher, like 8 to 10 points with it, the timer of &lt;i&gt;Upgrade Attacks&lt;/i&gt; will fit good. Besides, from the last revision at the EP server and the current live version, there was an additional reduction on the bonus amount of the ability.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;TekMon, The New Order</description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:36:54 GMT</pubDate>
<author>TekMon</author>
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