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<title>Latest posts for the topic &quot;CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!&quot;</title>
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<description>Latest messages posted in the topic &quot;CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!&quot;</description>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>I think a quick fix for our pesky zerg problem is to implement a harsher death penalty.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;15% downgrade to abilities for 5 minutes... OOoooOooo...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Instead, make it something like if you have to reconstruct, you are 50% downgraded, and your movement speed is slowed down 15%, on top of a half-full buffer.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If you get a RSI Revitalize or whatever that magic spell is, then you still get the downgrades, but no movement speed nerf.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thoughts?&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:34:16 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Montoia</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;50%...ewwww..no way. that would actually help the zerg. were gonna die no matter what but if the few meros and machines have to wait 5 min to do anything after death we&apos;ll never make a dent. besides a quick fix isnt what we need. we need something for the long term imo.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;p&gt;Message Edited by darkhaze on &lt;span class=&quot;date_text&quot;&gt;03-30-2006&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;time_text&quot;&gt;05:16 AM&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:14:42 GMT</pubDate>
<author>darkhaze</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;p&gt;death effect increases would only benefit the zion and hurt the opposing orgs more (as DH said above) &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;get rid of death effect all together: meh, doesn&apos;t change anything.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;vector is facing a serious crisis though.  all the players that seem to be leaving are machine and meros because they are facing the negative effects of the free fire/change in buffing system.  they were able to withstand a 3v1 in a lot of cases in the last system (which is bogus, and the new system is better balance wise) but now I can&apos;t see how the pvp thing will be much fun at all for them.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Inguss encourages more zionites to switch orgs, and I hope they do.  My faction will not, however, so I&apos;m no help there.  PvP will be obviously nonexistant if there are no enemies, so something must be done.  And once again i have no idea what that should be.  i know  a lot of ppl are really tempted to move if a server transfer were offered, and that bumms me out too... i don&apos;t want to go to a non hostile server, but i also don&apos;t want to stay on a hostile server with no hostilities.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;/nohelp&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Message Edited by Bethlahem on &lt;span class=&quot;date_text&quot;&gt;03-30-2006&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;time_text&quot;&gt;11:20 AM&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:19:38 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Bethlehem</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;p&gt;...right then, along comes cryshal with your scheduled reality check =D&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;i recall shooting at ppl, before cr2, who were in interlock. cue 2001 theme music.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;the reason it has become MUCH worse has nothing to do with interlock. after all, the difference between interlock and multilock is nil, zero, moot. now that theres no more multilock, and yet now we got freefire melee attacks.. whats the difference? absolutely none.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;the reason why ppl standing around loaded up to their eyes with ballistic buffs are causing so much of a problem is cuz theyre exactly the same they always were, but the game isnt. they were always standing there, shooting you about 4-6 secs AFTER you pull someone into interlock.. but in cr2 guns hit ppl SO much more often now. its not interlock, or the zerg, or the balance of population between the orgs (as much), its the fact that youre getting hit sometimes 3 times in one second, by guns now.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;devs, turn down the gunfire pls =D&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;i do missions on easy, just to test.. and i still get pelted for noob dmg which adds up so much faster than i thought it would. an average of 80 dmg per sec means i die in about 32 secs or the time it takes me, with hacker (no hacker comments pls), to kill 3-4 npcs if all goes well.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;see the pattern here? this is just how its been going down at mara a la pvp lately. its not the zerg, its the bullets. they hit you in the back of the head far more often now. the solution is to tone down the ranged stuff. its just trouble in several different ways, as voiced by many ppl ingame, to be getting hit so much now. item decay etc. or you could make ppl in interlock unable to be hit by anyone outside. that would be fine with me. i try to avoid interlock about 2/3rds of the time but when im there, i want it to be me vs them and no bs about it. however id also have to consider this heavy handed.. far easier im sure to just throttle back on how much we get hit by ballistic attacks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:13:18 GMT</pubDate>
<author>cryshal</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>the difference is w/o ,multi interlock you no longer have 15 other fools hopin into interlock and it takin 5 minutes btween rolls.  if you are dumb enough to hop into a group of reds you will no go down quite quickly as it should be.&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:58:37 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Lazaros</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;p&gt;TBH for all sorts of reasons not zerg releated I would love a more severe DE a full 5 minutes where you must not return to the battle would actually make properly resolvable conflicts etc.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;For the Zerg atm split EPN away as a pvpable group...you can still give them the same missions as zion but the seperation will mean Zion needs to exert more care in pvp situations (and inevitably will generate friction between one another).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Split the cyphs in the same way BUT a new redpill should be awoken by Zion and then under the terms of the truce automatically be emplyed by the machines to keep order (at a later date being able to opt into other orgs).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;There is a good excuse for both Merovs and machines to have area&apos;s of the matrix where the exile gangs (for merovs) and security/agents (for machines) will actually fight at their side....the level and density of these could be adjusted to the org distribution of the server.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Message Edited by Tytanya_MxO on &lt;span class=&quot;date_text&quot;&gt;03-31-2006&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;time_text&quot;&gt;03:25 AM&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 03:20:36 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Tytanya_MxO</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;i just dont agree with having to deal with some crazy de for dying. especially on a hostile server where you dont want to have to stand around and wait for 5 min before you can play the game. i think maybe a loss of experience would be better. eventually leading to loosing a level if you dont keep up with missions. this would help to make people a little more careful in pvp because you dont want to loose your exp and also give the higher levels more of a reason to mission with the lowbies.&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 05:57:54 GMT</pubDate>
<author>darkhaze</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;div&gt;...or you could quit distracting yourselves with silly ideas about orgs and death effect and just relax the gunfire, our ballistic defense/dodge ranged/magic wand/wtfever is clearly bugged.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;go to creston without using mkt/assassin and youll see the best and quickest example. haha you wont even make it halfway. this is the proper solution to the problem cuz it helps the zerg problem and hm lots of other problems too, such as mish grinding, failures of latency, and item decay.&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:01:56 GMT</pubDate>
<author>cryshal</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;Well the honest question is... Has the zerg become;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;More effective?&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;Effectively the same?&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;Less effective?&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;Honest answers please.&lt;/DIV&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:02:22 GMT</pubDate>
<author>9mmfu</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>The Zerg could suck as individuals on any server. Numbers = Zerg. The more there are, the more efficient the Zerg. &lt;span&gt;:smileyindifferent:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span&gt;:smileyvery-happy:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:36:53 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Ghostwise</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>heh, Zergs seem pretty balanced in my opinion. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;lt;--- Merv Assassin on Vector...&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:00:47 GMT</pubDate>
<author>MxO-Insertion</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;the zerg has clearly become a little more effective, mostly depending on your class. since we get hit alot more now, this means, more frequent interruptions of concentration for the hackers. other classes have similar problems.. they have to change their gameplan sometimes cuz since we get hit more, that means, possible to get hit&amp;nbsp;with stun more easily, or other debuffs. when i use gunner it seems theres always a debuff with my name on it haha. just as there is for others, when i have hacker loaded. you see ppl prevented from casting a buff/debuff, entering sneak, tying their shoes, whatever. things are just different now =D&lt;/DIV&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:18:07 GMT</pubDate>
<author>cryshal</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;talent, strategy, and a few skilled teamates with good vocal communication can still conquer the zerg&lt;/DIV&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:55:39 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Davo</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;Yes it depends on circumstances but the constant attacks force alot of Concentration checks and when your trying to use a hack or other ability with a long use timer it makes a big difference. You can get interupted multiple times and if you do you may as well run or call it quits. Also even though the lowbies don&apos;t do any damage they can still hit you for status affects which is what Interlock is about these days. Once i get a status effect on me in interlock if it&apos;s the right one or one my enemy can take advantage of there goes half my health or my face ot the&amp;nbsp;pavement.</description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 02:33:37 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Hanzyl and Gretyl</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>With team work it&apos;s acheivable to handle a force around twice your
&lt;br&gt; size. Much beyond that, and you&apos;re simply dead. The worst thing is
&lt;br&gt; multiple damage types. You can&apos;t defend against a mass of MKTs AND a
&lt;br&gt; mass of Kung Fu Gms at the same time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 04:30:47 GMT</pubDate>
<author>RockyB</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;HR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; NoRepro wrote:&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;Well the honest question is... Has the zerg become;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;More effective?&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;Effectively the same?&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;Less effective?&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;Honest answers please.&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;HR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;&lt;BR&gt;The honest answer I think is that the Zerg is more effective.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;Why?&amp;nbsp; Well, with CR2 interlock is faster but because of resistances and active buffs that you can use in combat, it takes longer to kill an opponent.&amp;nbsp; This means in essence more time for the Zerg to roll on your position and put more people around you to shoot/knife/kick you while you&apos;re in interlock.&amp;nbsp; We all know that states are the key to launching and landing the big damage moves and now there is more time for more Zerg-la-dytes to group on you and inflict states.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;Add to this contested roll outs and you have a more effective Zerg.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;Now, all that said.. I think CR2 is a million times better than the old way, but the Zerg is more effective.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;How would we fix this?&amp;nbsp; I&apos;m not sure.. longer DE penalties?&amp;nbsp; More toughness for low population orgs to balance things out?&amp;nbsp; Meh.. who knows such things?&amp;nbsp; Only the Oracle.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 04:58:19 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Spadz</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;HR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; Spadz wrote:&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;The honest answer I think is that the Zerg is more effective.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;Why?&amp;nbsp; Well, with CR2 interlock is faster but because of resistances and active buffs that you can use in combat, it takes longer to kill an opponent.&amp;nbsp; This means in essence more time for the Zerg to roll on your position and put more people around you to shoot/knife/kick you while you&apos;re in interlock.&amp;nbsp; We all know that states are the key to launching and landing the big damage moves and now there is more time for more Zerg-la-dytes to group on you and inflict states.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;Add to this contested roll outs and you have a more effective Zerg.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;Now, all that said.. I think CR2 is a million times better than the old way, but the Zerg is more effective.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;How would we fix this?&amp;nbsp; I&apos;m not sure.. longer DE penalties?&amp;nbsp; More toughness for low population orgs to balance things out?&amp;nbsp; Meh.. who knows such things?&amp;nbsp; Only the Oracle.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;HR&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;These are my thoughts exactly, many of my CR2 fears proved to be unfounded but this one was very definitely realised. It is exacerbated by the apparent ease free fire Melee fighters have to be able to induce debuff states on the person caught in IL. I hear what other people say about being able to fight a larger force but quite honestly this is purely ignorance to the new system and very soon that will not exist as a tool. The actual aggressiveness of Vector has decreased as there is&amp;nbsp;a more ready resignation of the futility of certain battles...the only positive as regards that situation is that the current population of Vector is probably more balanced that at any other time in its life. &lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;The only real suggestion I would propose is that the evade combat stat gets a buff proportionate to the relative number of different opponents inflicting damage (ie twice as many people hitting A in IL offers an 10% boost to his evade), this way the handicapped force has a better change to retreat and rethink a strategy. And or once in IL the two combatants can take damage from outside but certain states ie stun, root etc can only come from within.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 05:13:07 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Tytanya_MxO</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;good points Spadz. I never really covered the interlock stuff.</description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 05:16:27 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Hanzyl and Gretyl</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;As someone who&apos;s not even on Vector, I&apos;ll just jump in here quickly.&amp;nbsp; &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; /&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;I was worried about the ability of those outside of combat to inflict debuff states when free fire was first discussed in regards to CR2.&amp;nbsp; This really is an important issue if you&apos;re not on a hostile server, and I can see it easily being an even bigger issue on a hostule.&amp;nbsp; My suggested solution to this?&amp;nbsp; Make&amp;nbsp;Multi-Fighting&amp;nbsp;a levellable ability that reduces the ability of outer attackers to cause debuffs; the higher the level, the harder it is for someone outside of IL to cause a debuff state.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;br&gt; &lt;P&gt;Sure this won&apos;t solve all of the problems associated with the Zerg (or even just multi person combat post CR), but it&apos;s a good place to start.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:10:54 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Shinryu</author>
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<title>Re: CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!</title>
<description>&lt;DIV&gt;Nice idea on the multi fighting ability. Should help and gives the ability something useful to do.&lt;/DIV&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 17 Apr 2006 00:32:31 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Hanzyl and Gretyl</author>
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