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<title>Latest posts for the topic &quot;[8.3.3] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07&quot;</title>
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<description>Latest messages posted in the topic &quot;[8.3.3] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07&quot;</description>
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<title>Re:[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;ChloeAnn wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;In the end, everyone must choose a side.&amp;nbsp; It is inevitable.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I agree. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I disagree. This does not mean that Morpheus has sided with the Cypherites or the Machines. It means that the choice he made in this instance was in their favor. In fact if you notice Morpheus needed reasureing that Zion would be able to overcome this trial before he made his choice. A man can choose to eat an apple one day but still favor pears over appels can he not?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Morpheus is going Cyph! WOOHOO!!!&lt;br /&gt;Bring out the champagne!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;*gets wasted*&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:30:35 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Syna</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Croesus wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Indeed but what if Zion and it&amp;#39;s population were wiped from the face of the earth? Be it by the Machines or plague or natural disaster such as a cave-in? There would be no one to carry on such an idea. Other ideas may form and be similar, but everything dies... Nothing can stop the march of time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As long as there are free minds, there will always be ideas.&amp;nbsp; Zion has been annihilated several times, yet it rises from the ashes to oppose the system every time.&amp;nbsp; </description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:30:48 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Garu</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;As long as there are free minds, there will always be ideas.&amp;nbsp; Zion has been annihilated several times, yet it rises from the ashes to oppose the system every time.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your right, it has, but that was because the Machines required it to be reformed, hence the One having to chose a few people after returning to the source to re-build Zion&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:33:30 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>I&amp;#39;d say that if everyone who believes in an idea dies, the idea dies with them... for a time. If the idea was formed once, it may be formed again.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Taking Zion as an example again, Zion was destroyed, but it did the same thing six times in a row (no doubt with some small variances, sure, but nothing significantly different). The Machines orchestrated events so that the city&amp;#39;s population would hold the same beliefs and have the same ideas with each iteration.</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:43:53 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Procurator</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Reeverbs wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;Morpheus is going Cyph! WOOHOO!!!&lt;br /&gt;Bring out the champagne!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;*gets wasted*&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Wouldn&amp;#39;t celebrate too soon there, mate.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Croesus wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;As long as there are free minds, there will always be ideas.&amp;nbsp; Zion has been annihilated several times, yet it rises from the ashes to oppose the system every time.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your right, it has, but that was because the Machines required it to be reformed, hence the One having to chose a few people after returning to the source to re-build Zion&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To a point, but not completely. Even if Zion were to be completely decimated and the cycle of control , there are people still born inside that will reject this place. There are people, like Michael, that will wake themselves from it. An idea will exist as long as there is someone (human or sentient), that takes a certain point of view of the world. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A free mind refuses to remain enslaved whether the Machine wants it to or not.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:45:51 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Pyraci</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Croesus wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;As long as there are free minds, there will always be ideas.&amp;nbsp; Zion has been annihilated several times, yet it rises from the ashes to oppose the system every time.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your right, it has, but that was because the Machines required it to be reformed, hence the One having to chose a few people after returning to the source to re-build Zion&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Quite right.&amp;nbsp; Though each time it becomes populated by citizens who all believe in the same idea as their predecessors despite having never met them.&amp;nbsp; Today there will be someone born into this world who shares the same ideas as myself or someone who believes as Zion does.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Our bodies can be broken but the ideas we have live on through others until the end of time or until no one believes in it anymore.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:47:06 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Garu</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>Ideas cannot die for the simple reason that others will have the same ideas which people had before them, even if it&amp;#39;s in another form.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You can kill the people, but ideas are bulletproof, as the saying goes. There&amp;#39;ll always be similar ideas as long as people have ideas.</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:54:02 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GoDGiVeR</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>Good points by all! &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&amp;lt;img mce_tsrc=&quot; /&gt; I guess I was trying to say that the same exact ideas from a man do not necessarily get passed on, but ideas born of of necessity and situation are generally very similar.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;[EDIT]&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;Our bodies can be broken but the ideas we have live on through others until the end of time or until no one believes in it anymore.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Hehe, this is what I originally said in a round about way! This is what started the thread going of on the tangent its on now! I do hope we&amp;#39;re not gonna be going around in circles! &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; width=&quot;15&quot; height=&quot;15&quot; /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:54:46 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Croesus wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Good points by all! &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; /&gt;&quot; width=&quot;15&quot; height=&quot;15&quot; /&gt; I guess I was trying to say that the same exact ideas from a man do not necessarily get passed on, but ideas born of of necessity and situation are generally very similar.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#39;m inclined to agree.&amp;nbsp; Ideas &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; change as some people embrace them differently than others.&amp;nbsp; But the core of the idea itself tends to survive.</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:57:06 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Garu</author>
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<title>[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;cloudwolf wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;(( Wrong chapter tag, pm sent. ))&lt;/blockquote&gt;Hmwah? Oh. Numbers...&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:12:16 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Rarebit</author>
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<title>[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Rarebit wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;cloudwolf wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;(( Wrong chapter tag, pm sent. ))&lt;/blockquote&gt;Hmwah? Oh. Numbers...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;((*Explodes into a fit of giggles.*&amp;nbsp; Rarebit+Numbers=No?))&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:20:00 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Rosincrantz</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.4] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Procurator wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;I&amp;#39;d say that if everyone who believes in an idea dies, the idea dies with them... for a time. If the idea was formed once, it may be formed again.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Taking Zion as an example again, Zion was destroyed, but it did the same thing six times in a row (no doubt with some small variances, sure, but nothing significantly different). The Machines orchestrated events so that the city&amp;#39;s population would hold the same beliefs and have the same ideas with each iteration.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;((I think this is true in a OOC aspect, but while IC it is different.)) &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ffff00;&quot;&gt;Those that do not understand an idea most of the time do not understand the everlasting life of it. Seeing is not always believing. Faith is beliefs true strength.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:34:15 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Nicho</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.3] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>Quite a team, eh? A man with the mind of a machine, a machine with the mind of a man. And together, they may have brought about an end to this conflict.&amp;nbsp; Poetic, really.</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:31:35 GMT</pubDate>
<author>CPT_Starschwar</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.3] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>I think it&amp;#39;s a little to early to celebrate... Zion has got a lot of fight left in them yet, yes the most experienced operatives are getting taken out of the equation but that leaves room for the more inexperienced, and while that may work in our favour also, it could just make them more tenacious, trying unanticipated plans etc.....&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:43:47 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.3] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Croesus wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;I think it&amp;#39;s a little to early to celebrate... Zion has got a lot of fight left in them yet, yes the most experienced operatives are getting taken out of the equation but that leaves room for the more inexperienced, and while that may work in our favour also, it could just make them more tenacious, trying unanticipated plans etc.....&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Exactly what we&amp;#39;d need, should our lives be threatened again.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:54:15 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Pyraci</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.3] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>Any celebration on my part would be very reluctant.&amp;nbsp; Though I do not agree with Zion&amp;#39;s policies I can hardly revel in their death.&amp;nbsp; </description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:01:37 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Garu</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.3] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Morpheus the man was strong, both in will and intellect. He was not easily swayed nor manipulated.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Morpheus the program is indecisive, unproven, and unprepared. I have little faith in his ability to make sound decisions for the betterment of the human race. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Perhaps&amp;nbsp;this program&amp;nbsp;should be neutralized. . .permanently.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:23:17 GMT</pubDate>
<author>ShiXinFeng</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.3] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Morpheus the man was strong, both in will and intellect. He was not easily swayed nor manipulated.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Morpheus the program is indecisive, unproven, and unprepared. I have little faith in his ability to make sound decisions for the betterment of the human race. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Perhaps&amp;nbsp;this program&amp;nbsp;should be neutralized. . .permanently.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Morpheus the man was strong because his beliefs drifted into fanaticism.&amp;nbsp; He was not easily swayed or manipulated by facts or reason.&amp;nbsp; In the end, his&amp;nbsp;fixation on the return of a corpse (not peace, or freedom for humanity)&amp;nbsp;led not only to his own death, but to the deaths of many bluepills through his codebombs.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Morpheus the program doesn&amp;#39;t seem to have these faults, at least not yet.&amp;nbsp; He is trying to learn -- he knows he doesn&amp;#39;t know everything, unlike the fanatic who believed there was nothing left to learn.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;PS: I did predict that Zion/EPN would want&amp;nbsp;the sim&amp;nbsp;deleted if he didn&amp;#39;t help them, no matter what the reasoning was behind it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:45:39 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Illyria22</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.3] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>((I think there is a lot more to both the Morpheus sim and Cryptos than we can see. I could almost expect them to plan something together))&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:47:07 GMT</pubDate>
<author>MotorZ</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.3] Choose, man! - Vector - 10/24/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Morpheus the man was strong because his beliefs drifted into fanaticism.&amp;nbsp; He was not easily swayed or manipulated by facts or reason.&amp;nbsp; In the end, his&amp;nbsp;fixation on the return of a corpse (not peace, or freedom for humanity)&amp;nbsp;led not only to his own death, but to the deaths of many bluepills through his codebombs.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Morpheus the program doesn&amp;#39;t seem to have these faults, at least not yet.&amp;nbsp; He is trying to learn -- he knows he doesn&amp;#39;t know everything, unlike the fanatic who believed there was nothing left to learn.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;PS: I did predict that Zion/EPN would want&amp;nbsp;the sim&amp;nbsp;deleted if he didn&amp;#39;t help them, no matter what the reasoning was behind it.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Morpheus was strong because he followed the truth.&amp;nbsp; When confronted with the fact that the prophecy was a system of control that the Machines placed on humanity, he didn&amp;#39;t want to believe it.&amp;nbsp; He eventually did come around to face the truth about the situation.&amp;nbsp; The One returning to the Source did not end the war.&amp;nbsp; It perilously came close to destroying humanity.&amp;nbsp; Only Neo&amp;#39;s actions saved us all, Machine and Human alike.&amp;nbsp; You look down on people who base their actions on emotion and so dismiss them.&amp;nbsp; These people have their time and place that let them fit within society.&amp;nbsp; Without these people, who would drive us and keep pushing us to test ourselves?&amp;nbsp; Their passion is what has kept Zion going,&amp;nbsp;fighting against all odds.&amp;nbsp; To keep fighting even when faced with certain death.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;If Neo&amp;#39;s body was considered as just a corpse by the Machines, why had they not even recycled it like they do with the other corpses of the dead?&amp;nbsp; Following the logic that is implied by your viewpoint, even the Machines were &amp;quot;fixated&amp;quot; on this, by their own standards.&amp;nbsp; You look at everything through a very jaded lens, and tend to think very one-sidedly.&amp;nbsp; You refuse to look at situations from the other side of the fence, and that thinking is what perpetuates this constant violence between blood and data.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;Of course, I am not naive enough to&amp;nbsp;think that there aren&amp;#39;t&amp;nbsp;people on this side who do the exact same thing, but certainly you have been&amp;nbsp;one of the most&amp;nbsp;vocal about it.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;This simulation is not Morpheus, and can never be Morpheus.&amp;nbsp; It has proven that before, but now it is beyond a doubt&amp;nbsp;since&amp;nbsp;it has given up these RSI codes of our veterans.&amp;nbsp; He may yet grow into a fine creature, but the fact is that his place is not meant with Zion or with the Machines.&amp;nbsp; As someone else said before he is of a Machine with the mind of a Man, not fitting in with either.&amp;nbsp; I would be content with him living on his own aiding neither side, but unfortunately he has made his choice of aiding those who wish to kill us.&amp;nbsp; If he so chooses another life for himself, I would leave him alone.&amp;nbsp; Until then, he is a sworn enemy.&amp;nbsp; We shall see what his future holds.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;-Cykosis&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:01:14 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Cykosis</author>
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