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<title>Latest posts for the topic &quot;[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07&quot;</title>
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<description>Latest messages posted in the topic &quot;[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07&quot;</description>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Neoteny wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;The Cyphs were created to ensure that Zion was acting within the details of the truce by not awakening more than the allotted 1% and wasn&amp;#39;t it Veil that gave them the more aggressive edge?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Acting to enforce the Machine side of the Truce, right? What do you think New Zion&amp;nbsp;was designed to do? I&amp;#39;m not asking for connotations here, I&amp;#39;m not asking what people &lt;i&gt;might have&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;done&amp;nbsp;with&lt;i&gt; what it provides&lt;/i&gt;. I&amp;#39;m asking for what it actually, physically does.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Ok, what does it do.... It prevents Machine retaliation to any aggressive act you may or may not attempt. It allows for Zion hovercraft to be launched from for any planned operation, including accessing the simulation which is now prohibited to you, and return to without reprisal.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff0000;&quot;&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;Can you say for certain that the Machines would have attacked Zion if you hadn&amp;#39;t built the new city?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Can the Machines say for certain that we would have gone beyond the 1% if they hadn&amp;#39;t declared war? There was more evidence (the Machine bulidup near the city of Zion) that they would attack Zion than there was evidence that we would attempt to circumvent the agreement of the Truce.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;I take it from your lack of answer to my question that you can&amp;#39;t. What I will say is that the Cyphs were created to &lt;i&gt;ensure &lt;/i&gt;compliance. However, remember that the Cyphs, regardless of who created organised, were and still are Human. The aggressiveness came from Veil, not the overwritten Cryptos.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;Whilst you are inside that &amp;#39;bunker&amp;#39; (is that finally the acceptance to what it is... very warlike....) I don&amp;#39;t believe you are any threat to The Machines or the Simulation... it&amp;#39;s your activities &lt;i&gt;outside&lt;/i&gt; which presents the issue. As for the issue of Machinists outliving our usefulness... that&amp;#39;ll probably happen long after I expire, in any way I&amp;#39;l keep Gray at his word, that our future is not dependant on Zion&amp;#39;s&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;I&amp;#39;m submitting to your terminology for the sake of my argument. If it&amp;#39;s a bunker, it doesn&amp;#39;t have any mobile capability, and does not have any attack capability, thus rendering the Machine definition of it as an offensive weapon completely false.&amp;nbsp;And, if you admit that we are not a threat, then why the war? All of the activities we are undergoing were made illegal or necessary to restore normally legal activies &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;due to the war&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;. Without the war, which you have proven to be frivelous by your own logic, there is no cause for all of the activities you now justify the war by. Thus you have reached the conclusion that the war is unjust and unnecessary on your own.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;I&amp;#39;ve never claimed that it had mobile capability, it does have attack capability, it can attack Machine units that close in on it. Those weapons... defensive to you are offensive to the Machines. I&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;n any case &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;the Machines didn&amp;#39;t call it an offensive weapon, but it is a place of safety from which attacks via weapons platforms (i.e. hovercraft) can be mounted and return to with no fear of reprisal. Therefore it is a threat. I can see why you keep denying this basic fact, if you admit it then you would have admitted that the war is completely just and necessary.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff0000;&quot;&gt;Right, we&amp;#39;re carrying out operations to restore protocols which were perfectly legal during peacetime. Pardon me once more if I find your notion that these operations are &amp;quot;aggressive&amp;quot; in any manner laughable. As for our combatting Agents and Machine Programs? They&amp;#39;re enforcing the Machine edict, of course we&amp;#39;re going to fight them. Combat is to be expected among opposing parties during war, and is to be discouraged during a time of peace. That&amp;#39;s just a flip of a switch there, as far as programs are concerned.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;Perfectly legal privileges that were given to you by the Machines and then taken away. They are aggressive in the form that you are trying to take back the privileges without permission from those in control of the system.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Again, taken away &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt;? For reasons you have proven to be unjust and unfounded.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Taken away from you due to your blatant and obvious violation of the truce as I have already mentioned thus proving that the reasons are just and founded.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;But they knew we did not trust them, or their motives. Why not ask for this data at a more critical moment? Why &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt;? Why &lt;i&gt;after&lt;/i&gt; a radical Zionite had taken actions against them, likely decreasing their trust towards us? And there is the answer. Their motive was a lack of trust - they did not believe we could sort our own affairs. And why should a lack of trust lead to a trusting action? The answer is that it does not, and it leads to quite the opposite, as was shown.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;But you didn&amp;#39;t sort out your own affairs.... it took the Machines to sort it out then offer their hand in objective, mutual benefit to both parties. Again to trust someone there has to be a first step made... and the Machine&amp;#39;s offer allowed you to take the step.... but your own distrust&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt; ruined any chance of that.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Oh, I quite believe that there is always hope. However, by the logic that you and Procurator have used, in the eyes of the Machine, humankind will never have hope for redemption. They will always be pock marked by the sins of another race, and exhibit &amp;quot;violent tendencies&amp;quot; which have been branded a part of nature and carry a perceived permenance. Where&amp;#39;s the hope there? If we are all branded sinners at birth, and are condemend without hope of redemption, how may we find it?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;We don&amp;#39;t have the time to &amp;quot;evolve.&amp;quot; We have the time to live, and the time to rebel against this caste system. We&amp;#39;ve got until we die, or until they change their minds - whichever comes first. Given this war and your logic, I&amp;#39;m not putting my money on the latter.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Do you have any idea what Machinists are trying to do? We are trying to prove to the Machines that Mankind can change. Mankind can evolve but that doesn&amp;#39;t mean that we can&amp;#39;t try to show the Machines that, regardless of Human Nature, Humans can be cooperative, peaceful and unprejudiced before then. All of our work is placed in jeopardy because of your &amp;#39;rebelling&amp;#39; against the system. It is you and yours who are drawing out the war for everyone, Machines, Redpills and Bluepills....&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt; </description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:07:04 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
</item>
<item>
<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;The Cyphs were created to ensure that Zion was acting within the details of the truce by not awakening more than the allotted 1% and wasn&amp;#39;t it Veil that gave them the more aggressive edge?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Acting to enforce the Machine side of the Truce, right? What do you think New Zion&amp;nbsp;was designed to do? I&amp;#39;m not asking for connotations here, I&amp;#39;m not asking what people &lt;i&gt;might have&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;done&amp;nbsp;with&lt;i&gt; what it provides&lt;/i&gt;. I&amp;#39;m asking for what it actually, physically does.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Ok, what does it do.... It prevents Machine retaliation to any aggressive act you may or may not attempt. It allows for Zion hovercraft to be launched from for any planned operation, including accessing the simulation which is now prohibited to you, and return to without reprisal.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;This is connotation, exactly what I did not ask for. This is your belief about the reasoning behind the EMP defenses of New Zion, this is not the function of an EMP. What does an EMP do? It deactivates Mechanical equipment. What does a static, but perpetual EMP do? It deactivates anything mechanical that comes near it.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;If the Machines can see need to launch overtly aggressive and subversive operations against Zion operatives in order to &amp;quot;protect&amp;quot; the agreement limiting Zion to one percent, and it is considered by you to be perfectly legal within the bounds of the Truce, then why is a covert defensive EMP shield designed by Zion to protect the part of the Truce keeping the Machines from attacking us a dismissal of it?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Either way, it&amp;#39;s enforcing the Truce by taking it into your own hands, and I submit that if you are to defend the Machines actions in creating the Cypherites, then you &lt;i&gt;must&lt;/i&gt; defend the actions of Zion creating New Zion, or be a hypocrit.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff0000;&quot;&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;Can you say for certain that the Machines would have attacked Zion if you hadn&amp;#39;t built the new city?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Can the Machines say for certain that we would have gone beyond the 1% if they hadn&amp;#39;t declared war? There was more evidence (the Machine bulidup near the city of Zion) that they would attack Zion than there was evidence that we would attempt to circumvent the agreement of the Truce.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;I take it from your lack of answer to my question that you can&amp;#39;t. What I will say is that the Cyphs were created to &lt;i&gt;ensure &lt;/i&gt;compliance. However, remember that the Cyphs, regardless of who created organised, were and still are Human. The aggressiveness came from Veil, not the overwritten Cryptos.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Given the fact that they declared war and destroyed Zion within as short a timeframe as they did, I&amp;#39;d postulate that it was premeditated. Can I say for certain? No, of course not. But it&amp;#39;s quite more than likely, especially with the half a million sentinels that had been camped right outside the city for more than a year.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Can &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; prove that we would&amp;#39;ve gone beyond the limits of the Truce simply because we were living in a new city? I&amp;#39;ve already told you that I would have rebelled against the administration along with many others had they submitted to such a policy, and we had already disowned EPN on the grounds that they had been exacting this policy - I&amp;#39;d say that&amp;#39;s pretty good evidence that we meant to remain within the boundaries of the Truce concerning awakenings. But you, and they, don&amp;#39;t care, do you? You place such an emphasis on our history - perhaps they should have reviewed that part about the public reaction to the Vietnam War.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;As for Cypherites - if the Machines created them and oversaw them, don&amp;#39;t you think they should have exerted some sort of control over their techniques and activities if they saw them as too extreme? But they didn&amp;#39;t. They didn&amp;#39;t care that they killed our operatives. They endorsed it, and continued to endorse it during the Truce, after the cat was out of the bag, as &lt;i&gt;Veil&lt;/i&gt; lead the Cypherites. Oh, they hoped Cryptos might come back, but they were willing enough to continue on with Veil.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;Whilst you are inside that &amp;#39;bunker&amp;#39; (is that finally the acceptance to what it is... very warlike....) I don&amp;#39;t believe you are any threat to The Machines or the Simulation... it&amp;#39;s your activities &lt;i&gt;outside&lt;/i&gt; which presents the issue. As for the issue of Machinists outliving our usefulness... that&amp;#39;ll probably happen long after I expire, in any way I&amp;#39;l keep Gray at his word, that our future is not dependant on Zion&amp;#39;s&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;I&amp;#39;m submitting to your terminology for the sake of my argument. If it&amp;#39;s a bunker, it doesn&amp;#39;t have any mobile capability, and does not have any attack capability, thus rendering the Machine definition of it as an offensive weapon completely false.&amp;nbsp;And, if you admit that we are not a threat, then why the war? All of the activities we are undergoing were made illegal or necessary to restore normally legal activies &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;due to the war&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;. Without the war, which you have proven to be frivelous by your own logic, there is no cause for all of the activities you now justify the war by. Thus you have reached the conclusion that the war is unjust and unnecessary on your own.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;I&amp;#39;ve never claimed that it had mobile capability, it does have attack capability, it can attack Machine units that close in on it. Those weapons... defensive to you are offensive to the Machines. I&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;n any case &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;the Machines didn&amp;#39;t call it an offensive weapon, but it is a place of safety from which attacks via weapons platforms (i.e. hovercraft) can be mounted and return to with no fear of reprisal. Therefore it is a threat. I can see why you keep denying this basic fact, if you admit it then you would have admitted that the war is completely just and necessary.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;You&amp;#39;re just going back on your word here. You said above that you saw that nothing within New Zion could be considered a threat, and&amp;nbsp;only now you contradict yourself to say that we could launch some sort of attacks from hovercraft within the city. And the Machines have quite called it a weapon. What do you think &amp;quot;disarm&amp;quot; means? We&amp;#39;ve already come to the conclusion that they must have been talking about the city - since when has anything considered &amp;quot;defensive&amp;quot; been called a weapon? If you&amp;#39;ve got a shield, it&amp;#39;s a shield, if you&amp;#39;ve got an armor, it&amp;#39;s armor, if you&amp;#39;ve got a gun, it&amp;#39;s a weapon. They consider it a weapon, though I insist that it is quite purely defensive. You even agreed with me above when you acknowledge New Zion as a bunker. A bunker is by no means an offensive structure, now, is it? Unless it suddenly, by means of a changing definition has become one according to you.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;There is absolutely nothing just or necessary about this war. I didn&amp;#39;t even need to prove that - you did it for me when you said that nothing within New Zion was a threat. You can attempt to go back on it all you&amp;#39;d like, but I read your words quite clearly.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff0000;&quot;&gt;Right, we&amp;#39;re carrying out operations to restore protocols which were perfectly legal during peacetime. Pardon me once more if I find your notion that these operations are &amp;quot;aggressive&amp;quot; in any manner laughable. As for our combatting Agents and Machine Programs? They&amp;#39;re enforcing the Machine edict, of course we&amp;#39;re going to fight them. Combat is to be expected among opposing parties during war, and is to be discouraged during a time of peace. That&amp;#39;s just a flip of a switch there, as far as programs are concerned.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;Perfectly legal privileges that were given to you by the Machines and then taken away. They are aggressive in the form that you are trying to take back the privileges without permission from those in control of the system.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Again, taken away &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt;? For reasons you have proven to be unjust and unfounded.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Taken away from you due to your blatant and obvious violation of the truce as I have already mentioned thus proving that the reasons are just and founded.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;You contradicted yourself. There&amp;#39;s a difference. Either way, you&amp;#39;ve proven that these demonized operations are irrelevant to your argument, and hard to classify as &amp;quot;aggressive&amp;quot; being that they are only trying to re-establish things common during Trucetime. If it&amp;#39;s something you could use while there&amp;#39;s peace, why would it be considered hostile, anyhow? That simply doesn&amp;#39;t make sense.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;But they knew we did not trust them, or their motives. Why not ask for this data at a more critical moment? Why &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt;? Why &lt;i&gt;after&lt;/i&gt; a radical Zionite had taken actions against them, likely decreasing their trust towards us? And there is the answer. Their motive was a lack of trust - they did not believe we could sort our own affairs. And why should a lack of trust lead to a trusting action? The answer is that it does not, and it leads to quite the opposite, as was shown.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;But you didn&amp;#39;t sort out your own affairs.... it took the Machines to sort it out then offer their hand in objective, mutual benefit to both parties. Again to trust someone there has to be a first step made... and the Machine&amp;#39;s offer allowed you to take the step.... but your own distrust&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt; ruined any chance of that.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Let me spell it out for you. We don&amp;#39;t like other people poking into our business. Had we turned over that information, the Machines would have been in control. We don&amp;#39;t want them to be in control. We want to be in control of our own matters. The Machines have proven that they are control freaks and to give them that much information would have been problematic.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Oh, I quite believe that there is always hope. However, by the logic that you and Procurator have used, in the eyes of the Machine, humankind will never have hope for redemption. They will always be pock marked by the sins of another race, and exhibit &amp;quot;violent tendencies&amp;quot; which have been branded a part of nature and carry a perceived permenance. Where&amp;#39;s the hope there? If we are all branded sinners at birth, and are condemend without hope of redemption, how may we find it?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;We don&amp;#39;t have the time to &amp;quot;evolve.&amp;quot; We have the time to live, and the time to rebel against this caste system. We&amp;#39;ve got until we die, or until they change their minds - whichever comes first. Given this war and your logic, I&amp;#39;m not putting my money on the latter.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Do you have any idea what Machinists are trying to do? We are trying to prove to the Machines that Mankind can change. Mankind can evolve but that doesn&amp;#39;t mean that we can&amp;#39;t try to show the Machines that, regardless of Human Nature, Humans can be cooperative, peaceful and unprejudiced before then. All of our work is placed in jeopardy because of your &amp;#39;rebelling&amp;#39; against the system. It is you and yours who are drawing out the war for everyone, Machines, Redpills and Bluepills....&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;What change? You&amp;#39;re not progressing, you&amp;#39;re regressing. You&amp;#39;ve gone back to submitting your entire lives to their control, to give into the caste system. You&amp;#39;re not working towards equality, you&amp;#39;re taking orders and willingly acknowledging yourselves as inferior.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;But pardon me for not laying down and dying to end the war. Pardon me for believing in progress. Pardon me for believing we should have rights. Pardon me for believing we should have freedom. Pardon me for believing we should be the autonomous beings we were created as. Pardon me for believing we should have true peace.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;This never was a war. It always has been and always will be&amp;nbsp;a redpill genocide.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<link>http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/posts/list.m?topic_id=36300018446&amp;post_id=36300362520#36300362520</link>
<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:30:07 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Neoteny</author>
</item>
<item>
<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Neoteny wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;The Cyphs were created to ensure that Zion was acting within the details of the truce by not awakening more than the allotted 1% and wasn&amp;#39;t it Veil that gave them the more aggressive edge?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Acting to enforce the Machine side of the Truce, right? What do you think New Zion&amp;nbsp;was designed to do? I&amp;#39;m not asking for connotations here, I&amp;#39;m not asking what people &lt;i&gt;might have&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;done&amp;nbsp;with&lt;i&gt; what it provides&lt;/i&gt;. I&amp;#39;m asking for what it actually, physically does.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Ok, what does it do.... It prevents Machine retaliation to any aggressive act you may or may not attempt. It allows for Zion hovercraft to be launched from for any planned operation, including accessing the simulation which is now prohibited to you, and return to without reprisal.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;This is connotation, exactly what I did not ask for. This is your belief about the reasoning behind the EMP defenses of New Zion, this is not the function of an EMP. What does an EMP do? It deactivates Mechanical equipment. What does a static, but perpetual EMP do? It deactivates anything mechanical that comes near it.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;If the Machines can see need to launch overtly aggressive and subversive operations against Zion operatives in order to &amp;quot;protect&amp;quot; the agreement limiting Zion to one percent, and it is considered by you to be perfectly legal within the bounds of the Truce, then why is a covert defensive EMP shield designed by Zion to protect the part of the Truce keeping the Machines from attacking us a dismissal of it?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Either way, it&amp;#39;s enforcing the Truce by taking it into your own hands, and I submit that if you are to defend the Machines actions in creating the Cypherites, then you &lt;i&gt;must&lt;/i&gt; defend the actions of Zion creating New Zion, or be a hypocrit.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;The Machines had every right to protect the agreement hammered out between the two Sides. They were ensuring that you stayed within the limits of the agreement. It&amp;#39;s laughable for you to say that you are protecting a part of a truce with the EMP&amp;#39;s. There is no truce if both sides do not agree on it. The violation committed by building covertly a base which has the capability of doing all the things I have previously mentioned rendered it obsolete. The EMP&amp;#39;s do not apply to any part of the truce. In which section did it say that Zion can awaken 1% of Bluepills who reject the simulation and by doing this they can build a wall of EMP&amp;#39;s to protect a fortified base.... You cannot enforce a truce if one does not exist any more and it does not exist any more because Zion knowingly broke it, why else was it constructed in secret?&lt;/b&gt; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff0000;&quot;&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;Can you say for certain that the Machines would have attacked Zion if you hadn&amp;#39;t built the new city?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Can the Machines say for certain that we would have gone beyond the 1% if they hadn&amp;#39;t declared war? There was more evidence (the Machine bulidup near the city of Zion) that they would attack Zion than there was evidence that we would attempt to circumvent the agreement of the Truce.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;I take it from your lack of answer to my question that you can&amp;#39;t. What I will say is that the Cyphs were created to &lt;i&gt;ensure &lt;/i&gt;compliance. However, remember that the Cyphs, regardless of who created organised, were and still are Human. The aggressiveness came from Veil, not the overwritten Cryptos.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Given the fact that they declared war and destroyed Zion within as short a timeframe as they did, I&amp;#39;d postulate that it was premeditated. Can I say for certain? No, of course not. But it&amp;#39;s quite more than likely, especially with the half a million sentinels that had been camped right outside the city for more than a year.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Can &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; prove that we would&amp;#39;ve gone beyond the limits of the Truce simply because we were living in a new city? I&amp;#39;ve already told you that I would have rebelled against the administration along with many others had they submitted to such a policy, and we had already disowned EPN on the grounds that they had been exacting this policy - I&amp;#39;d say that&amp;#39;s pretty good evidence that we meant to remain within the boundaries of the Truce concerning awakenings. But you, and they, don&amp;#39;t care, do you? You place such an emphasis on our history - perhaps they should have reviewed that part about the public reaction to the Vietnam War.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;As for Cypherites - if the Machines created them and oversaw them, don&amp;#39;t you think they should have exerted some sort of control over their techniques and activities if they saw them as too extreme? But they didn&amp;#39;t. They didn&amp;#39;t care that they killed our operatives. They endorsed it, and continued to endorse it during the Truce, after the cat was out of the bag, as &lt;i&gt;Veil&lt;/i&gt; lead the Cypherites. Oh, they hoped Cryptos might come back, but they were willing enough to continue on with Veil.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Outside for over a year, and didn&amp;#39;t attack when their forces were strongest.... yet New Zion was completed as soon as the Machines lost huge numbers in the battle against the General. Coincidence....&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;But I cannot prove what you are asking me and you cannot prove what I was asking you it seems that while we a posturing here the war is continuing....&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;Whilst you are inside that &amp;#39;bunker&amp;#39; (is that finally the acceptance to what it is... very warlike....) I don&amp;#39;t believe you are any threat to The Machines or the Simulation... it&amp;#39;s your activities &lt;i&gt;outside&lt;/i&gt; which presents the issue. As for the issue of Machinists outliving our usefulness... that&amp;#39;ll probably happen long after I expire, in any way I&amp;#39;l keep Gray at his word, that our future is not dependant on Zion&amp;#39;s&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;I&amp;#39;m submitting to your terminology for the sake of my argument. If it&amp;#39;s a bunker, it doesn&amp;#39;t have any mobile capability, and does not have any attack capability, thus rendering the Machine definition of it as an offensive weapon completely false.&amp;nbsp;And, if you admit that we are not a threat, then why the war? All of the activities we are undergoing were made illegal or necessary to restore normally legal activies &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;due to the war&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;. Without the war, which you have proven to be frivelous by your own logic, there is no cause for all of the activities you now justify the war by. Thus you have reached the conclusion that the war is unjust and unnecessary on your own.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;I&amp;#39;ve never claimed that it had mobile capability, it does have attack capability, it can attack Machine units that close in on it. Those weapons... defensive to you are offensive to the Machines. I&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;n any case &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;the Machines didn&amp;#39;t call it an offensive weapon, but it is a place of safety from which attacks via weapons platforms (i.e. hovercraft) can be mounted and return to with no fear of reprisal. Therefore it is a threat. I can see why you keep denying this basic fact, if you admit it then you would have admitted that the war is completely just and necessary.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;You&amp;#39;re just going back on your word here. You said above that you saw that nothing within New Zion could be considered a threat, and&amp;nbsp;only now you contradict yourself to say that we could launch some sort of attacks from hovercraft within the city. And the Machines have quite called it a weapon. What do you think &amp;quot;disarm&amp;quot; means? We&amp;#39;ve already come to the conclusion that they must have been talking about the city - since when has anything considered &amp;quot;defensive&amp;quot; been called a weapon? If you&amp;#39;ve got a shield, it&amp;#39;s a shield, if you&amp;#39;ve got an armor, it&amp;#39;s armor, if you&amp;#39;ve got a gun, it&amp;#39;s a weapon. They consider it a weapon, though I insist that it is quite purely defensive. You even agreed with me above when you acknowledge New Zion as a bunker. A bunker is by no means an offensive structure, now, is it? Unless it suddenly, by means of a changing definition has become one according to you.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;There is absolutely nothing just or necessary about this war. I didn&amp;#39;t even need to prove that - you did it for me when you said that nothing within New Zion was a threat. You can attempt to go back on it all you&amp;#39;d like, but I read your words quite clearly.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Obviously not very well. My main point being that &lt;i&gt;inside&lt;/i&gt; new Zion, nothing is a threat, but the EMP&amp;#39;s are located on the outside, and Hovercraft leave New Zion. If everything and everyone in New Zion stayed inside... I, personally can&amp;#39;t see a problem.... but in order to access the Simulation you have to be outside New Zion. as I said, it is your activities outside New Zion and the ability for it to harbour hovercraft that can or have committed illegal activities that causes concern.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff0000;&quot;&gt;Right, we&amp;#39;re carrying out operations to restore protocols which were perfectly legal during peacetime. Pardon me once more if I find your notion that these operations are &amp;quot;aggressive&amp;quot; in any manner laughable. As for our combatting Agents and Machine Programs? They&amp;#39;re enforcing the Machine edict, of course we&amp;#39;re going to fight them. Combat is to be expected among opposing parties during war, and is to be discouraged during a time of peace. That&amp;#39;s just a flip of a switch there, as far as programs are concerned.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;Perfectly legal privileges that were given to you by the Machines and then taken away. They are aggressive in the form that you are trying to take back the privileges without permission from those in control of the system.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Again, taken away &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt;? For reasons you have proven to be unjust and unfounded.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Taken away from you due to your blatant and obvious violation of the truce as I have already mentioned thus proving that the reasons are just and founded.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;You contradicted yourself. There&amp;#39;s a difference. Either way, you&amp;#39;ve proven that these demonized operations are irrelevant to your argument, and hard to classify as &amp;quot;aggressive&amp;quot; being that they are only trying to re-establish things common during Trucetime. If it&amp;#39;s something you could use while there&amp;#39;s peace, why would it be considered hostile, anyhow? That simply doesn&amp;#39;t make sense.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;The actions you are undertaking to regain the privileges you have lost and are now illegal for you are aggressive counteractions to law set out by the Machines in their territory. Its that simple. How can I make it simpler. Old Earth, two countries enjoying cooperation, allowing citizens to travel through one another. If they go to war and they close their borders, citizens wont still travel through suggesting that if it was legal in peace time... why isn&amp;#39;t it now.....&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;But they knew we did not trust them, or their motives. Why not ask for this data at a more critical moment? Why &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt;? Why &lt;i&gt;after&lt;/i&gt; a radical Zionite had taken actions against them, likely decreasing their trust towards us? And there is the answer. Their motive was a lack of trust - they did not believe we could sort our own affairs. And why should a lack of trust lead to a trusting action? The answer is that it does not, and it leads to quite the opposite, as was shown.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;But you didn&amp;#39;t sort out your own affairs.... it took the Machines to sort it out then offer their hand in objective, mutual benefit to both parties. Again to trust someone there has to be a first step made... and the Machine&amp;#39;s offer allowed you to take the step.... but your own distrust&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt; ruined any chance of that.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Let me spell it out for you. We don&amp;#39;t like other people poking into our business. Had we turned over that information, the Machines would have been in control. We don&amp;#39;t want them to be in control. We want to be in control of our own matters. The Machines have proven that they are control freaks and to give them that much information would have been problematic.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Well keep your business away from impacting on the simulation and there will be no cause for them to poke into it.... The simulation and the bluepills are their business... yet you continue to poke your noses into it.... live and let live....?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Oh, I quite believe that there is always hope. However, by the logic that you and Procurator have used, in the eyes of the Machine, humankind will never have hope for redemption. They will always be pock marked by the sins of another race, and exhibit &amp;quot;violent tendencies&amp;quot; which have been branded a part of nature and carry a perceived permenance. Where&amp;#39;s the hope there? If we are all branded sinners at birth, and are condemend without hope of redemption, how may we find it?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;We don&amp;#39;t have the time to &amp;quot;evolve.&amp;quot; We have the time to live, and the time to rebel against this caste system. We&amp;#39;ve got until we die, or until they change their minds - whichever comes first. Given this war and your logic, I&amp;#39;m not putting my money on the latter.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Do you have any idea what Machinists are trying to do? We are trying to prove to the Machines that Mankind can change. Mankind can evolve but that doesn&amp;#39;t mean that we can&amp;#39;t try to show the Machines that, regardless of Human Nature, Humans can be cooperative, peaceful and unprejudiced before then. All of our work is placed in jeopardy because of your &amp;#39;rebelling&amp;#39; against the system. It is you and yours who are drawing out the war for everyone, Machines, Redpills and Bluepills....&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;What change? You&amp;#39;re not progressing, you&amp;#39;re regressing. You&amp;#39;ve gone back to submitting your entire lives to their control, to give into the caste system. You&amp;#39;re not working towards equality, you&amp;#39;re taking orders and willingly acknowledging yourselves as inferior.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;But pardon me for not laying down and dying to end the war. Pardon me for believing in progress. Pardon me for believing we should have rights. Pardon me for believing we should have freedom. Pardon me for believing we should be the autonomous beings we were created as. Pardon me for believing we should have true peace.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;This never was a war. It always has been and always will be&amp;nbsp;a redpill genocide.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Progress?!... what progress have you achieved? The only progress Mankind made when Neo implemented the truce... peace between Man and Machine. But from actions by you and yours, we have taken a step back, work Machinists have done to provide a stable foundation of trust between Man and Machine has been placed in jeopardy because of them. Thankfully, the Machines still have an open mind and don&amp;#39;t associate your actions with us. Without Order there is Chaos, on old Earth there were governments, military and police. Orders were given, Laws were made and adhered to by the civilians yet it was acceptable... You also take orders from your superiors do you not? Yet this is exactly what you are fighting against. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;True peace is obtained by cooperation and understanding.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;I see that this debate has been going around in circles. Neither of us is going to change our opinions at any time soon. I have a hope that this Intruder as a blessing in disguise, that a common foe will force cooperation between Zion and Machines and will lead to a new Truce. Perhaps I am aiming too high in my hopes, time will tell. What I will continue to do is to work with the Machines to provide a future for Mankind. I can see no benefit in continuing this debate any longer.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:40:52 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;The Machines had every right to protect the agreement hammered out between the two Sides. They were ensuring that you stayed within the limits of the agreement. It&amp;#39;s laughable for you to say that you are protecting a part of a truce with the EMP&amp;#39;s. There is no truce if both sides do not agree on it. The violation committed by building covertly a base which has the capability of doing all the things I have previously mentioned rendered it obsolete. The EMP&amp;#39;s do not apply to any part of the truce. In which section did it say that Zion can awaken 1% of Bluepills who reject the simulation and by doing this they can build a wall of EMP&amp;#39;s to protect a fortified base.... You cannot enforce a truce if one does not exist any more and it does not exist any more because Zion knowingly broke it, why else was it constructed in secret? &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;You&amp;#39;re missing the point entirely.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;If the machines have a right to protect part of the agreement, have&amp;nbsp;we no right to protect what is another part of the agreement? Pardon me if I am wrong, but wasn&amp;#39;t it a part of the agreement that Machine would not harm human, and human would not harm Machine? If you can see the formation of the Cypherites as well within the bounds of the Truce, whereas it violates the other portion of it (&amp;quot;protects&amp;quot; the 1% agreement, infringes upon the no side killing the other agreement) how do you see Zion building fortifications as outside the bounds of the Truce? It protects the &amp;quot;no side killing the other&amp;quot; agreement, and &lt;i&gt;possibly&lt;/i&gt; infringes upon the 1% agreement, though, I&amp;#39;ll add there was never any proof of the latter.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;By your logic, the Machines broke the Truce far before we did. You&amp;#39;re simply not acknowledging it because it does not support your side.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff0000;&quot;&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;Given the fact that they declared war and destroyed Zion within as short a timeframe as they did, I&amp;#39;d postulate that it was premeditated. Can I say for certain? No, of course not. But it&amp;#39;s quite more than likely, especially with the half a million sentinels that had been camped right outside the city for more than a year.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;Can &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; prove that we would&amp;#39;ve gone beyond the limits of the Truce simply because we were living in a new city? I&amp;#39;ve already told you that I would have rebelled against the administration along with many others had they submitted to such a policy, and we had already disowned EPN on the grounds that they had been exacting this policy - I&amp;#39;d say that&amp;#39;s pretty good evidence that we meant to remain within the boundaries of the Truce concerning awakenings. But you, and they, don&amp;#39;t care, do you? You place such an emphasis on our history - perhaps they should have reviewed that part about the public reaction to the Vietnam War.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;As for Cypherites - if the Machines created them and oversaw them, don&amp;#39;t you think they should have exerted some sort of control over their techniques and activities if they saw them as too extreme? But they didn&amp;#39;t. They didn&amp;#39;t care that they killed our operatives. They endorsed it, and continued to endorse it during the Truce, after the cat was out of the bag, as &lt;i&gt;Veil&lt;/i&gt; lead the Cypherites. Oh, they hoped Cryptos might come back, but they were willing enough to continue on with Veil.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Outside for over a year, and didn&amp;#39;t attack when their forces were strongest.... yet New Zion was completed as soon as the Machines lost huge numbers in the battle against the General. Coincidence....&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;But I cannot prove what you are asking me and you cannot prove what I was asking you it seems that while we a posturing here the war is continuing....&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;You said it yourself that New Zion was planned out near the end of the Truce - thereby its time of completion (well, it wasn&amp;#39;t even complete, by the way) is completely coincidental.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;No one can say &lt;i&gt;anything&lt;/i&gt; for &lt;i&gt;certain&lt;/i&gt;, in &lt;i&gt;absolute&lt;/i&gt;. But what&amp;#39;s there a better case for? What&amp;#39;s there more evidence towards? We gave them the benefit of the doubt with their sentinels for a great length of time -&amp;nbsp;and what did we get in return when we had a &amp;quot;potentially dangerous&amp;quot; situation? No benefit of the doubt - they simply &lt;i&gt;used&lt;/i&gt; that which we had given the benefit of the doubt &lt;i&gt;to&lt;/i&gt;. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Obviously not very well. My main point being that &lt;i&gt;inside&lt;/i&gt; new Zion, nothing is a threat, but the EMP&amp;#39;s are located on the outside, and Hovercraft leave New Zion. If everything and everyone in New Zion stayed inside... I, personally can&amp;#39;t see a problem.... but in order to access the Simulation you have to be outside New Zion. as I said, it is your activities outside New Zion and the ability for it to harbour hovercraft that can or have committed illegal activities that causes concern.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;Right, but what was the war started based on? New Zion, right? If nothing within New Zion is a threat, then there should never have been a war. And it was the war which rendered hovercraft and Matrix operations hostile, wasn&amp;#39;t it? If there were no war, hovercraft and Matrix operations would not be illegal. And if New Zion&amp;#39;s not a threat, as you&amp;#39;ve said, then why the war? What&amp;#39;s the point? &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;You&amp;#39;re not admitting it, but you&amp;#39;ve already stated it - the war is a lie founded on false pretexts.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;Oh, and if you&amp;#39;re making the case for ships that would have been flagged as illegal during the Truce - I&amp;#39;ve already said that we&amp;#39;d rebel against a leadership which went against the Truce, I&amp;#39;ve already told you that we&amp;#39;d disowned EPN to uphold the Truce - what evidence is there to suggest that we would harbor anyone committing illegal activities? That&amp;#39;s all assumption - the kind of assumption that leads to unjust, unfounded genocidal wars.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff0000;&quot;&gt;Right, we&amp;#39;re carrying out operations to restore protocols which were perfectly legal during peacetime. Pardon me once more if I find your notion that these operations are &amp;quot;aggressive&amp;quot; in any manner laughable. As for our combatting Agents and Machine Programs? They&amp;#39;re enforcing the Machine edict, of course we&amp;#39;re going to fight them. Combat is to be expected among opposing parties during war, and is to be discouraged during a time of peace. That&amp;#39;s just a flip of a switch there, as far as programs are concerned.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cc0099;&quot;&gt;Perfectly legal privileges that were given to you by the Machines and then taken away. They are aggressive in the form that you are trying to take back the privileges without permission from those in control of the system.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;Again, taken away &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt;? For reasons you have proven to be unjust and unfounded.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Taken away from you due to your blatant and obvious violation of the truce as I have already mentioned thus proving that the reasons are just and founded.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;You contradicted yourself. There&amp;#39;s a difference. Either way, you&amp;#39;ve proven that these demonized operations are irrelevant to your argument, and hard to classify as &amp;quot;aggressive&amp;quot; being that they are only trying to re-establish things common during Trucetime. If it&amp;#39;s something you could use while there&amp;#39;s peace, why would it be considered hostile, anyhow? That simply doesn&amp;#39;t make sense.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;The actions you are undertaking to regain the privileges you have lost and are now illegal for you are aggressive counteractions to law set out by the Machines in their territory. Its that simple. How can I make it simpler. Old Earth, two countries enjoying cooperation, allowing citizens to travel through one another. If they go to war and they close their borders, citizens wont still travel through suggesting that if it was legal in peace time... why isn&amp;#39;t it now.....&lt;/span&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;They also tell their citizens that they&amp;#39;re at war. Whereas these citizens know nothing - not even that they are prisoners to a dictatorial nation. Somem will hop the berlin wall, others will not. Most won&amp;#39;t even see it. But we&amp;#39;re not their citizens, no no. We&amp;#39;ve never been.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;By what has happened and what you have said, you&amp;#39;re saying that after an enemy nation has destroyed a relay tower, the nation attacked has no right to rebuild it.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;Priviledge? Hah. We did it before the Truce, during the Truce, and we will do it now.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;Let me spell it out for you. We don&amp;#39;t like other people poking into our business. Had we turned over that information, the Machines would have been in control. We don&amp;#39;t want them to be in control. We want to be in control of our own matters. The Machines have proven that they are control freaks and to give them that much information would have been problematic.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Well keep your business away from impacting on the simulation and there will be no cause for them to poke into it.... The simulation and the bluepills are their business... yet you continue to poke your noses into it.... live and let live....?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;Oh, but we were permitted to impact the simulation, were we not? Poking into &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; business would be much like asking about the politics and schematics of Zero One - sending spy ships to look around there for vulnerabilities. But we never did that, now, did we?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;As long as the Matrix is populated by human beings, I will never consider it a territory belonging to the Machines.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Do you have any idea what Machinists are trying to do? We are trying to prove to the Machines that Mankind can change. Mankind can evolve but that doesn&amp;#39;t mean that we can&amp;#39;t try to show the Machines that, regardless of Human Nature, Humans can be cooperative, peaceful and unprejudiced before then. All of our work is placed in jeopardy because of your &amp;#39;rebelling&amp;#39; against the system. It is you and yours who are drawing out the war for everyone, Machines, Redpills and Bluepills....&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;What change? You&amp;#39;re not progressing, you&amp;#39;re regressing. You&amp;#39;ve gone back to submitting your entire lives to their control, to give into the caste system. You&amp;#39;re not working towards equality, you&amp;#39;re taking orders and willingly acknowledging yourselves as inferior.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00ff00;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;But pardon me for not laying down and dying to end the war. Pardon me for believing in progress. Pardon me for believing we should have rights. Pardon me for believing we should have freedom. Pardon me for believing we should be the autonomous beings we were created as. Pardon me for believing we should have true peace.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;This never was a war. It always has been and always will be&amp;nbsp;a redpill genocide.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;Progress?!... what progress have you achieved? The only progress Mankind made when Neo implemented the truce... peace between Man and Machine. But from actions by you and yours, we have taken a step back, work Machinists have done to provide a stable foundation of trust between Man and Machine has been placed in jeopardy because of them. Thankfully, the Machines still have an open mind and don&amp;#39;t associate your actions with us. Without Order there is Chaos, on old Earth there were governments, military and police. Orders were given, Laws were made and adhered to by the civilians yet it was acceptable... You also take orders from your superiors do you not? Yet this is exactly what you are fighting against. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ff00ff;&quot;&gt;True peace is obtained by cooperation and understanding.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;Again I tell you I supported the Truce until its dying day. I worked closely with Machines and Machinists alike. The step back was taken by the Machines - when they declared an unjust war which is indeed nothing more than a thinly veiled redpill genocide.&lt;b&gt; &lt;/b&gt;We take orders, but we question them. In example, quite a time ago we were asked to undertake an operation for the General and we did, after much questioning. Following the operation, which was quite clearly a mistake, all involved agreed that we would never again do errands for the General. And we never did. I&amp;#39;ve seen few Machinists who have neglected to work with Cypherites when ordered, or who have questioned anything at all ordered of them. As a matter of fact, this is my point against the operation shown here - you were ordered to kill, and did so without thinking, without questioning.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #009900;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;There will never be understanding without questioning. Know that.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p&gt;I see that this debate has been going around in circles. Neither of us is going to change our opinions at any time soon. I have a hope that this Intruder as a blessing in disguise, that a common foe will force cooperation between Zion and Machines and will lead to a new Truce. Perhaps I am aiming too high in my hopes, time will tell. What I will continue to do is to work with the Machines to provide a future for Mankind. I can see no benefit in continuing this debate any longer.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;Fat chance. I&amp;#39;m not throwing my lot in with the Machines this time anyway. We&amp;#39;ve already helped them sort enough of their problems in the Matrix - we don&amp;#39;t owe them a *CENSORED* thing anymore. If he wants to take down the Matrix? That&amp;#39;s his deal. I&amp;#39;m not going to stop him, and I&amp;#39;d discourage any Zionites from trying to do so.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;Real peace is not the result of a temporary alliance.&amp;nbsp;The genocidal tendencies of the Machines will not be forgiven and certainly will not be fogotten so easily.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #cccc00;&quot;&gt;But you&amp;#39;re right on one point, and that is that this &amp;quot;argument&amp;quot; is going nowhere due to your stubbornness. It will show its use in the future, however,&amp;nbsp;as the extended argument of the Machine has failed to hold up and in effect undermines itself.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:27:27 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Neoteny</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>Indeed, the records here will show &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; answers, &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; personal opinions and your attempts to try to cover the basic facts and obscure them with your contempt. So the last thing I will say here is confirming what I have said. Zion, knowingly and directly violated the truce by covertly building a fortified city, a city designed specifically to make sure that those who you were at relative peace with could not go near yet still allowing for your own access to their territory. &lt;i&gt;My&lt;/i&gt; Opinion of why the Machines decided to go to war was what the city was clearly &lt;i&gt;capable&lt;/i&gt; of allowing, this is one of the points you like so much to skim over. This clear abandonment of what Neo strived for in his final few hours resulted in the abolishment of the truce and with it any rights you had during the time of the truce. During the truce you had the privilege of awakening without intervention by system forces as long as you kept within the bounds of the truce. Now that privilege has been taken away you and your forces who trespass inside the system and Machine territory will be met with force.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:38:30 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>I love it when people come in thinking there opinion is right/truth and force it on you.</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 2 Dec 2007 08:23:30 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Sphairo</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Sphairo wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;I love it when people come in thinking there opinion is right/truth and force it on you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p&gt;Funny, I was just pointing that out here --&amp;nbsp; &lt;a href=&quot;http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/posts/list.m?start=15&amp;amp;topic_id=36300018789&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/..._id=36300018789&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;-- and immediately afterwards someone gave an example of doing just that.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:50:37 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Illyria22</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;The trick is to not try and speak on behalf of everyone. Generalization is a *CENSORED*, you claim one side thinks this way and thats it, when in reality we don&amp;#39;t know everyone, we don&amp;#39;t know how everyone thinks, and actully I doubt we truely can know how one single person thinks. Speak on behalf of yourself only and stop trying to generalize everyone else. You only end up pissing people off, looking like a fool, and starting seven page long arguements in multi colors.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Want to share your views fine but don&amp;#39;t force them. As Karl Popper put it &amp;quot;No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude&amp;quot;. You can&amp;#39;t expect a Machine to suddently addapt a EPN&amp;nbsp;belief system, or a Zionite a Merv&amp;#39;s. All you can do is explain why you believe what you do, show evidence to support it, and answer questions that get asked. Change wont happen by force only by the willingness to accept it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:08:44 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;If I had the power to force my opinion, there would be no Machinists, no Cypherites. What&amp;#39;s said was said. You can accept it, or you can reject it -&amp;nbsp;that&amp;#39;s your choice. I don&amp;#39;t have the power to force anything on anyone. But I &lt;i&gt;do &lt;/i&gt;have the power to put&amp;nbsp;truth and logic&amp;nbsp;out there for the accepting rational minds to see.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:37:42 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Neoteny</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Neoteny wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;If I had the power to force my opinion, there would be no Machinists, no Cypherites. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That&amp;#39;s the difference between our two organizations -- I never begrudged anyone their choice to work for Zion or the Merovingian, and I would never want to force anyone to join my org, even if I had that power.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Zion has&amp;nbsp;been indignant that not every redpill wants to stay with them ever since the truce went into effect.&amp;nbsp; (Check out the archived early missions for evidence of this...heck, even the introductory missions from Tyndall before the truce ended make it obvious that Zion looks down on anyone that leaves them.)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:01:55 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Illyria22</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Neoteny wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;If I had the power to force my opinion, there would be no Machinists, no Cypherites. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That&amp;#39;s the difference between our two organizations -- I never begrudged anyone their choice to work for Zion or the Merovingian, and I would never want to force anyone to join my org, even if I had that power.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Zion has&amp;nbsp;been indignant that not every redpill wants to stay with them ever since the truce went into effect.&amp;nbsp; (Check out the archived early missions for evidence of this...heck, even the introductory missions from Tyndall before the truce ended make it obvious that Zion looks down on anyone that leaves them.)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Maybe because.... &amp;quot;The trick is to not try and speak on behalf of everyone. Generalization is a *CENSORED*, you claim one side thinks this way and thats it, when in reality we don&amp;#39;t know everyone, we don&amp;#39;t know how everyone thinks, and actully I doubt we truely can know how one single person thinks. Speak on behalf of yourself only and stop trying to generalize everyone else. You only end up pissing people off, looking like a fool, and starting seven page long arguements in multi colors.&amp;quot; &lt;p&gt;Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you&amp;#39;&amp;#39;ll find a few that really didn&amp;#39;t want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was&amp;nbsp;who may be offended that you&amp;nbsp;write them off so easily. Machiniest aren&amp;#39;t the only one&amp;#39;s looking for Pecace you know.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 4 Dec 2007 10:37:53 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>Quiet! You&amp;#39;re not supposed to say things that make sense. Nor are you supposed to tell people that we think for ourselves and have our own viewpoints about things that aren&amp;#39;t controlled by the commander or the council. We all have to be war mongering, chaotic, self-destroying heathens because we don&amp;#39;t want to be controlled by the Machines. Nothing more.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:00:19 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Pyraci</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>Null &lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:00:57 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Pyraci</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Pyraci wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Quiet! You&amp;#39;re not supposed to say things that make sense. Nor are you supposed to tell people that we think for ourselves and have our own viewpoints about things that aren&amp;#39;t controlled by the commander or the council. We all have to be war mongering, chaotic, self-destroying heathens because we don&amp;#39;t want to be controlled by the Machines. Nothing more.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt; My bad. Hail Zion!</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:03:16 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you&amp;#39;&amp;#39;ll find a few that really didn&amp;#39;t want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was&amp;nbsp;who may be offended that you&amp;nbsp;write them off so easily. Machiniest aren&amp;#39;t the only one&amp;#39;s looking for Pecace you know.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#39;s too bad that Zion&amp;#39;s leaders didn&amp;#39;t listen to those who wanted peace.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:41:00 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Illyria22</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you&amp;#39;&amp;#39;ll find a few that really didn&amp;#39;t want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was&amp;nbsp;who may be offended that you&amp;nbsp;write them off so easily. Machiniest aren&amp;#39;t the only one&amp;#39;s looking for Pecace you know.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#39;s too bad that Zion&amp;#39;s leaders didn&amp;#39;t listen to those who wanted peace.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And its too bad that the Machine didn&amp;#39;t listen to those that wanted them to cut ties with the Cypherites or overwriteing poeple. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Past is in the past, live for the present and plan for the future. This war isn&amp;#39;t going to stop if both sides keeping bringing up the past. It isn&amp;#39;t going to end if no one learns to get over it. And we will never have peace if both sides can&amp;#39;t compromise and figure out a way for us both to live in peace&amp;nbsp;on equal terms.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:29:27 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you&amp;#39;&amp;#39;ll find a few that really didn&amp;#39;t want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was&amp;nbsp;who may be offended that you&amp;nbsp;write them off so easily. Machiniest aren&amp;#39;t the only one&amp;#39;s looking for Pecace you know.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#39;s too bad that Zion&amp;#39;s leaders didn&amp;#39;t listen to those who wanted peace.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And its too bad that the Machine didn&amp;#39;t listen to those that wanted them to cut ties with the Cypherites or overwriteing poeple. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Past is in the past, live for the present and plan for the future. This war isn&amp;#39;t going to stop if both sides keeping bringing up the past. It isn&amp;#39;t going to end if no one learns to get over it. And we will never have peace if both sides can&amp;#39;t compromise and figure out a way for us both to lvie in peace without equal terms.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ffff00;&quot;&gt;As good as that sounds on paper, it seems and sounds way to easy than what really has to be done. Compromising on both sides results in someone reaching into some else&amp;#39;s cookie jar either way. I believe if there is to be peace on both sides, there needs to be know compromising done, just connection. Try to connect each way of living together. We live in feelings, hope, love, fear. The machines live in logic and numbers. Some how we have to find a way to live in them altogether, not shortening anyone&amp;#39;s stack ya know. IF that is even possible.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:48:23 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Nicho</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;NiChO wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you&amp;#39;&amp;#39;ll find a few that really didn&amp;#39;t want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was&amp;nbsp;who may be offended that you&amp;nbsp;write them off so easily. Machiniest aren&amp;#39;t the only one&amp;#39;s looking for Pecace you know.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#39;s too bad that Zion&amp;#39;s leaders didn&amp;#39;t listen to those who wanted peace.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And its too bad that the Machine didn&amp;#39;t listen to those that wanted them to cut ties with the Cypherites or overwriteing poeple. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Past is in the past, live for the present and plan for the future. This war isn&amp;#39;t going to stop if both sides keeping bringing up the past. It isn&amp;#39;t going to end if no one learns to get over it. And we will never have peace if both sides can&amp;#39;t compromise and figure out a way for us both to lvie in peace without equal terms.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ffff00;&quot;&gt;As good as that sounds on paper, it seems and sounds way to easy than what really has to be done. Compromising on both sides results in someone reaching into some else&amp;#39;s cookie jar either way. I believe if there is to be peace on both sides, there needs to be know compromising done, just connection. Try to connect each way of living together. We live in feelings, hope, love, fear. The machines live in logic and numbers. Some how we have to find a way to live in them altogether, not shortening anyone&amp;#39;s stack ya know. IF that is even possible.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Heres an idea... One Mech.. One Zion... Use opposite hands and grab a cookie from each others jar at the same time on the count of 3... Hand from both sides is in the jar for apprx 5 seconds to find a cookie. If one is found snatch it take it out... If not.. wel then the side with no cookies in there jar better pay up.. I spent mass amounts on those ingredients.. XD&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:59:46 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Avalod</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Avalod wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;NiChO wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you&amp;#39;&amp;#39;ll find a few that really didn&amp;#39;t want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was&amp;nbsp;who may be offended that you&amp;nbsp;write them off so easily. Machiniest aren&amp;#39;t the only one&amp;#39;s looking for Pecace you know.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#39;s too bad that Zion&amp;#39;s leaders didn&amp;#39;t listen to those who wanted peace.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And its too bad that the Machine didn&amp;#39;t listen to those that wanted them to cut ties with the Cypherites or overwriteing poeple. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Past is in the past, live for the present and plan for the future. This war isn&amp;#39;t going to stop if both sides keeping bringing up the past. It isn&amp;#39;t going to end if no one learns to get over it. And we will never have peace if both sides can&amp;#39;t compromise and figure out a way for us both to lvie in peace without equal terms.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ffff00;&quot;&gt;As good as that sounds on paper, it seems and sounds way to easy than what really has to be done. Compromising on both sides results in someone reaching into some else&amp;#39;s cookie jar either way. I believe if there is to be peace on both sides, there needs to be know compromising done, just connection. Try to connect each way of living together. We live in feelings, hope, love, fear. The machines live in logic and numbers. Some how we have to find a way to live in them altogether, not shortening anyone&amp;#39;s stack ya know. IF that is even possible.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Heres an idea... One Mech.. One Zion... Use opposite hands and grab a cookie from each others jar at the same time on the count of 3... Hand from both sides is in the jar for apprx 5 seconds to find a cookie. If one is found snatch it take it out... If not.. wel then the side with no cookies in there jar better pay up.. I spent mass amounts on those ingredients.. XD&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #ffff00;&quot;&gt;Well, as much as your &amp;quot;Cookie Monster&amp;quot; idea might not work. Let me show you why it might not work. First of all the machines most likely would not accept a human making up the rules of anything involving a tie up between the machines and humans. They would logically assume that since you are human, and being that you are, you would probably be biased towards the humans. Therefore that whole thing wouldn&amp;#39;t happen anyway. Sorry to flat line your cookie idea, but nice try. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;/mxo/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; width=&quot;15&quot; height=&quot;15&quot; /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:09:30 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Nicho</author>
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<title>Re:[8.3.5] &quot;All my work will be lost&quot; - Syntax - 11/14/07</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Neoteny wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;If I had the power to force my opinion, there would be no Machinists, no Cypherites. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That&amp;#39;s the difference between our two organizations -- I never begrudged anyone their choice to work for Zion or the Merovingian, and I would never want to force anyone to join my org, even if I had that power.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Zion has&amp;nbsp;been indignant that not every redpill wants to stay with them ever since the truce went into effect.&amp;nbsp; (Check out the archived early missions for evidence of this...heck, even the introductory missions from Tyndall before the truce ended make it obvious that Zion looks down on anyone that leaves them.)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Or maybe I&amp;#39;d rather not kill human beings. Maybe I&amp;#39;d rather not have other human beings trying to kill me. I&amp;#39;ve always had a problem with Cypherites. Why? They jump our ships and murder our operatives. I figure that&amp;#39;s&amp;nbsp;a good reason for me to want there to be no Cypherites, yeah?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#39;t have any inherent problems with Merovingian operatives and I&amp;#39;ll be goddamned if you tell me that I didn&amp;#39;t work with Machinists to support the Truce in its time. I had a bunch of friends who worked for the Machines, and it&amp;#39;s sad what&amp;#39;s happened. But they&amp;#39;ve started killing our operatives, too, as seen here.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Now, is it so wrong for me to wish that there were no human beings working against us, killing our operatives? Is it so wrong for me to wish that I had no human enemies?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;But I don&amp;#39;t have that kind of power -&amp;nbsp;which was my point -&amp;nbsp;and I&amp;#39;ll have to work to kill Machinists and Cypherites. That&amp;#39;s just how this game is going to work, isn&amp;#39;t it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:06:42 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Neoteny</author>
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