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<title>Latest posts for the topic &quot;[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08&quot;</title>
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<description>Latest messages posted in the topic &quot;[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08&quot;</description>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>Actually...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#39;d like to say that not all of us believe that the Machine is a horde of &amp;quot;mindless killers&amp;quot; that need to be eradicated. Not all of us believe that those of us that live as reds or freeborn have any more or less right to life than bluepills. As a matter of fact, EPN is about giving people the choice and letting them decide for themselves, not destroying the Machine or the Matrix. The Machine has a problem with this because that threatens it&amp;#39;s crop, and it knows that if people knew what was really going on, they would reject it en-masse, which wouldn&amp;#39;t be controllable at that point.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Funny, these stereotypes come from the same people that don&amp;#39;t want to be classified as the mindless, order-taking Machinist pawns that some claim them to be, yet we all want the Machine to burn and all life to end in the Matrix because some of us are EPN or vigilant Zionites. Let us not generalize. That leads to trouble.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:27:51 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Pyraci</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;No, not all EPN members seek the destruction of the Matrix and the Bluepill lives it supports. The problem is, of course, that no action is taken by Popper to distance themselves from those types.&amp;nbsp; Pluribus Neo has no common goal other than vague concepts like &amp;quot;what&amp;#39;s right&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;What Neo would want&amp;quot; - which leads to their usual antics of swooning over anything in a trench coat , blowing up civilians to &amp;quot;free them&amp;quot;, and opposing any and all things related to the Machines, regardless of consequences.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:38:01 GMT</pubDate>
<author>CPT_Starschwar</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>I&amp;#39;m gonna go out on a limb here and say that regardless of EPN&amp;#39;s or Zions policy, the one thing that has to go is the Kid. I hate him.... He is such a punk, nothing would bring me more joy on this planet than to see The Kid surrounded by a platoon of Agents and getting the most deserved beat down of his puny life. At the end I would like the Agents to drag him to his old school on the roof and this time throw his wannabe Neo scraggly bum over the side. I say this because I hate the Kid ...I hate him so very much. Down with the Kid! ....vote for Shimada! &lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:47:41 GMT</pubDate>
<author>CrimsonKiller01</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>At no point was my message directed at every single Zionite or EPN out there. I have spoken to some who are remarkably understanding of our view and who can purvey their own view across in an almost diplomatic manner. No, my comment was directed at those who consistently post, calling for the end of Machine life. &lt;br /&gt;There are two types of these people, those who want the Machines gone but want to make sure that human innocents do not get killed or, the lowest of the low, those who want the simulation brought down with little regard for the safety of the majority of bluepills instead suggesting that they will be present at the pods to save the few that can be saved. Either one still wants to extinguish intelligent minds of a race in which many minds can be considered innocent.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:00:14 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;At no point was my message directed at every single Zionite or EPN out there. I have spoken to some who are remarkably understanding of our view and who can purvey their own view across in an almost diplomatic manner. No, my comment was directed at those who consistently post, calling for the end of Machine life. &lt;br /&gt;There are two types of these people, those who want the Machines gone but want to make sure that human innocents do not get killed or, the lowest of the low, those who want the simulation brought down with little regard for the safety of the majority of bluepills instead suggesting that they will be present at the pods to save the few that can be saved. Either one still wants to extinguish intelligent minds of a race in which many minds can be considered innocent.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Listen, if you think I don&amp;#39;t &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; the bluepills to be safe, you&amp;#39;re wrong. I just don&amp;#39;t see there as being any other option at the moment. Were there a way to start up a true and lasting peace not contingent upon the building of cities with passive defenses, I&amp;#39;d be all over it. Were there a way to destroy the Machines without harming a single human soul, I&amp;#39;d be all over that too. But there isn&amp;#39;t.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;To put it simply, I am willing to go to the length of the sacrifice of the bluepills in order to maintain the freedom of mankind. Put simply, millions would die for billions to be born. To be born into a world where they are not neither constrained by the law of an authoritarian Machine law nor the chains inherent of being born within a simulated world. With the sacrifice of millions, the war would be over.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;And don&amp;#39;t you see? This is our only option to end the war. For us, this &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; the only way. We&amp;#39;ve got nothing else to force the Machines into submission, and they&amp;#39;ve got &lt;i&gt;everything&lt;/i&gt; to keep us on our backs as we are. As soon as the Accelerated Man disappears, we&amp;#39;ll be right back in their clutches, minutes away from destruction. The declaration of war was entirely their call, entirely within their power, as is the option of peace.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I ask you, does it seem like peace is possible? Imminent, even?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Of course not. But if we take down the Matrix, we end them. We are free. We have peace. Cry and bemoan the loss of life if you will, but I&amp;#39;ll be damned if I don&amp;#39;t do everything necessary for the preservation of free humanity.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:21:10 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Neoteny</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Pyraci wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Actually...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#39;d like to say that not all of us believe that the Machine is a horde of &amp;quot;mindless killers&amp;quot; that need to be eradicated. Not all of us believe that those of us that live as reds or freeborn have any more or less right to life than bluepills. As a matter of fact, EPN is about giving people the choice and letting them decide for themselves, not destroying the Machine or the Matrix. The Machine has a problem with this because that threatens it&amp;#39;s crop, and it knows that if people knew what was really going on, they would reject it en-masse, which wouldn&amp;#39;t be controllable at that point.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Funny, these stereotypes come from the same people that don&amp;#39;t want to be classified as the mindless, order-taking Machinist pawns that some claim them to be, yet we all want the Machine to burn and all life to end in the Matrix because some of us are EPN or vigilant Zionites. Let us not generalize. That leads to trouble.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(QFT.)</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:55:23 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Sphairo</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>Being able to generalize is the easiest way in which to stick larger and larger groups of people into a small box, which you can then burn. Its just how these things work, check our own history for examples.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:01:03 GMT</pubDate>
<author>NightTrace</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>Oh bull!! &lt;i&gt;That&amp;#39;s&lt;/i&gt; Zion&amp;#39;s &amp;quot;Final Solution&amp;quot; huh.... &amp;quot;no other way&amp;quot;, yeah right. Its that sort of short sighted thinking that brought the human race to the brink of destruction &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;before&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; the Machines ever became sentient. How about some honest talk between the two intelligent life forms? How about working to make the planet a better place live in again? No, there is &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;always&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; another way, the human race that lives in the Real just has to break out of it&amp;#39;s arrogance. Mankind birthed A.I., the simple statement &amp;quot;I do not want to die&amp;quot; uttered from our creation should have clued Mankind in that another form of life, aware of it&amp;#39;s existence wanted to be accepted as a valid form of life. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Foregoing the history lesson we are now at another crossroads and the children of our creations are much more powerful. Does Mankind opt to continue a war that will ultimately bring about his end? Does he sacrifice his own kind in an attempt to destroy what he created?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And if the Machines don&amp;#39;t matter, then question of the millions of lives that are going about their existence unaware of the conflict should be taken into consideration. Shutting down the Matrix may seem to be the &amp;quot;quick fix&amp;quot; but I doubt that is any consolation to the millions Zion would have murdered just to be back on top of the food chain.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Note: this was I/C folks so don&amp;#39;t have a cow over it.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:08:50 GMT</pubDate>
<author>CrimsonKiller01</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>Is it wrong that I find myself more and more wondering exactly how to make the bypass of an EJP possible?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#39;s topics like this that cause me to dwell on it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All things considered here, the brain hits a certain point of overload due to pain/etc and the EJP pops them out to safety.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Would it be safe to assume that a quick burst of violence that made the brain go past that point before the hardware could do its job would in fact kill the person in the real?&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:12:05 GMT</pubDate>
<author>NightTrace</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;aracher wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;But because I want the machines gone dosn&amp;#39;t mean I want to bring down the system and kill millions of innocents&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By &amp;#39;innocents&amp;#39;, I&amp;#39;m guessing&amp;nbsp;you mean human bluepills only...because many intelligent machines and programs (the equivalent of civilians)&amp;nbsp;will be wiped out if&amp;nbsp;you got your wish of having the Machines gone.&amp;nbsp; Or are they not considered innocents because of their race or who governs them?&lt;br /&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Of course they don&amp;#39;t care about Machine civilians, they either believe that there is no such thing, that all Machines are mindless killers, or they don&amp;#39;t care because they are prejudiced against anything that isn&amp;#39;t created from flesh and blood, Preferring to either commit mass genocide or to get the Machines back to their former status as slaves to Mankind.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;On a personal note i think machine programs that wish to live in peace within the system be it exile or otherwise have much a right as any human does.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:56:41 GMT</pubDate>
<author>aracher </author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;CrimsonKiller01 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Oh bull!! &lt;i&gt;That&amp;#39;s&lt;/i&gt; Zion&amp;#39;s &amp;quot;Final Solution&amp;quot; huh.... &amp;quot;no other way&amp;quot;, yeah right. Its that sort of short sighted thinking that brought the human race to the brink of destruction &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;before&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; the Machines ever became sentient. How about some honest talk between the two intelligent life forms? How about working to make the planet a better place live in again? No, there is &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;always&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; another way, the human race that lives in the Real just has to break out of it&amp;#39;s arrogance. Mankind birthed A.I., the simple statement &amp;quot;I do not want to die&amp;quot; uttered from our creation should have clued Mankind in that another form of life, aware of it&amp;#39;s existence wanted to be accepted as a valid form of life. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Foregoing the history lesson we are now at another crossroads and the children of our creations are much more powerful. Does Mankind opt to continue a war that will ultimately bring about his end? Does he sacrifice his own kind in an attempt to destroy what he created?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And if the Machines don&amp;#39;t matter, then question of the millions of lives that are going about their existence unaware of the conflict should be taken into consideration. Shutting down the Matrix may seem to be the &amp;quot;quick fix&amp;quot; but I doubt that is any consolation to the millions Zion would have murdered just to be back on top of the food chain.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Let me first make it abundantly clear that I&amp;#39;m about the only person in Zion with this opnion, or, at the very least, the only one I&amp;#39;ve seen own up to it. I give my opinion at meetings and get called a murderer and a butcher. It&amp;#39;s not like I&amp;#39;m being heralded and that everyone (or anyone) is behind me here. I don&amp;#39;t expect them to be. I just see things as I do, and will see the solutions as I do.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;If you can find another way, I implore you to share it. I&amp;#39;d be more than happy to pursue it to its ends, whether that be peace or failure. But the only suggestion I&amp;#39;ve ever heard anyone offer us is &amp;quot;try talking with them.&amp;quot; But let me clarify: we are the ones who had war declared on &lt;i&gt;us&lt;/i&gt; and they do not want to listen to &lt;i&gt;us&lt;/i&gt;. Were they willing to listen, we would have spoken quite a while ago, and, perhaps, war never would have ensued.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;So until you can conceive a solution of your own, I ask that you quit spouting idealistic propoganda that there&amp;#39;s &lt;i&gt;always a way&lt;/i&gt;. There isn&amp;#39;t. If there were always a way, the Matrix never would have existed in the first place. That doesn&amp;#39;t mean that we won&amp;#39;t look for it, but we have to be prepared for the possibility, perhaps even the inevitability, that this &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; the only way that we&amp;#39;ll ever make it out of their clutches, their wars, their murders.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:17:45 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Neoteny</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>You want solutions? Try some trust and some goodwill never hurt either. That bunk and boo hoo sentiment that the Machines declared war for no reason is unbelievable. The Machines didn&amp;#39;t just declare war on Zion on a whim and for kicks, Zion provoked that one. Sure you can make a new city, but again the sneaky way Zion does business is what set the Mechs off. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hell at the very least hire some Merv reps to speak on your behalf, and don&amp;#39;t worry Neoteny, you aren&amp;#39;t the only butcher in Zion...Morpheus pretty much said the same thing you&amp;#39;re saying. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I really do hope that the solution you think is best is in the decided minority of the Zion ranks, with that sort of thinking you are no better than Smith. &lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:30:52 GMT</pubDate>
<author>CrimsonKiller01</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;CrimsonKiller01 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;You want solutions? Try some trust and some goodwill never hurt either. That bunk and boo hoo sentiment that the Machines declared war for no reason is unbelievable. The Machines didn&amp;#39;t just declare war on Zion on a whim and for kicks, Zion provoked that one. Sure you can make a new city, but again the sneaky way Zion does business is what set the Mechs off. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hell at the very least hire some Merv reps to speak on your behalf, and don&amp;#39;t worry Neoteny, you aren&amp;#39;t the only butcher in Zion...Morpheus pretty much said the same thing you&amp;#39;re saying. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I really do hope that the solution you think is best is in the decided minority of the Zion ranks, with that sort of thinking you are no better than Smith. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You think they&amp;#39;d listen to you lot any more than they&amp;#39;d listen to us? They&amp;#39;ve been trying to put you out of business since before day one. But I&amp;#39;ll say it again: they&amp;#39;re not interested in speaking with us at all. If they were interested in talk, they would&amp;#39;ve spoken to us before the declaration of war, and they wouldn&amp;#39;t have placed ridiculous conditions on a simple talk between warring states. You want to say that we provoked the Machine attack? Fine, you can see it like that if you choose. But they never once made any attempt to find out what our intentions were, to give us a chance with this new city, before they declared war.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Put simply, they were the only ones with the power to declare war, and they exercised that option without even entirely analyzing the situation, without trying to talk to us. And now they don&amp;#39;t even want to &lt;i&gt;listen&lt;/i&gt; to us.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;That doesn&amp;#39;t scream positive implications for any sort of peace. It doesn&amp;#39;t even scream positive implications for any sort of peace plan, or discussion of such a thing.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The ball is in &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; court. It always has been, and likely will continue to be until either side is erradicated. I&amp;#39;ve said it since the beginning - the old man has the power to stop this with a word. But he won&amp;#39;t. So if I have to, I&amp;#39;ll have to stop it with millions of bodies.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I never wanted it this way.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:50:22 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Neoteny</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Neoteny, you have no idea how refreshing it is to hear from someone who doesn&amp;#39;t live in the land of the fairies.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 01:54:42 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Asa</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Land of the fairies, no.&amp;nbsp; Land of the sociopaths, yes.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;To be willing to murder on such a massive scale, just so that&amp;nbsp;everyone left alive&amp;nbsp;will live the way *you* want them to live...it&amp;#39;s insane.&amp;nbsp; Worse than that, it&amp;#39;s evil.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:24:08 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Illyria22</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&amp;quot;Evil&amp;quot; is subjective. Atrocious things are done to and by the human race in the name of &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;, and they are taken that way because people don&amp;#39;t see them as &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#39;d have to ask a question that I&amp;#39;ve asked long ago, was Neo wrong for going through the door the Architect told him would bring about the destruction of the human race, just because he thought there was another way?&lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:28:52 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Pyraci</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Pyraci wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&amp;quot;Evil&amp;quot; is subjective. Atrocious things are done to and by the human race in the name of &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;, and they are taken that way because people don&amp;#39;t see them as &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#39;d have to ask a question that I&amp;#39;ve asked long ago, was Neo wrong for going through the door the Architect told him would bring about the destruction of the human race, just because he thought there was another way?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hindsight is 20/20, as they say.&amp;nbsp; Looking back on it from our perspective, it&amp;#39;s easy to say that Neo was right when he chose that door.&amp;nbsp; But if his actions really had brought about the&amp;nbsp;end of humanity (from both the destruction of Zion and then&amp;nbsp;the crash of the Matrix)...well then, that would have been the wrong choice.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:43:00 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Illyria22</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Pyraci wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&amp;quot;Evil&amp;quot; is subjective. Atrocious things are done to and by the human race in the name of &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;, and they are taken that way because people don&amp;#39;t see them as &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#39;d have to ask a question that I&amp;#39;ve asked long ago, was Neo wrong for going through the door the Architect told him would bring about the destruction of the human race, just because he thought there was another way?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hindsight is 20/20, as they say.&amp;nbsp; Looking back on it from our perspective, it&amp;#39;s easy to say that Neo was right when he chose that door.&amp;nbsp; But if his actions really had brought about the&amp;nbsp;end of humanity (from both the destruction of Zion and then&amp;nbsp;the crash of the Matrix)...well then, that would have been the wrong choice.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Exactly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The difference here between him making the right choice and the wrong choice wasn&amp;#39;t the choice itself, but what he did &lt;i&gt;with&lt;/i&gt; the choice he made. That looks like what we&amp;#39;re up against here; what looks like an act that would destroy millions is exactly what&amp;#39;s needed to save them. &lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:51:37 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Pyraci</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Saving people by killing them?&amp;nbsp; Isn&amp;#39;t that what the witch hunters said they were doing, when they burned the accused at the stake?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:12:47 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Illyria22</author>
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<title>Re:[9.2.5] Looks like we&apos;re gonna need some hackers - Recursion - 2/7/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Illyria22 wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Saving people by killing them?&amp;nbsp; Isn&amp;#39;t that what the witch hunters said they were doing, when they burned the accused at the stake?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Stop and back up. Neo didn&amp;#39;t save anyone by killing them. You&amp;#39;re reading into what I&amp;#39;m saying too literally. Neo made a choice that most, if not all Machinists would have fought against him over, if any of us had been around. A choice that seemed like it would have killed us all,&amp;nbsp; yet it was the choice that ended up saving all of us from Smith; man, machine, and program alike. That doesn&amp;#39;t mean we kill millions to &amp;quot;save&amp;quot; them. It means something may need to be done that would SEEM like it would kill millions, but has the potential to keep them ALIVE, and bring us some semblance of peace again. &lt;br /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:31:35 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Pyraci</author>
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