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Ok, I was missioning last night (Criticals and Archives) and one of my faction mate made the observation that we tend to kill people on the other side alot. Like I'm a machinist, so I would kill EPNs, Mervs and Exiles. However, despite how many people we kill in missions and in PvP, the truce remains, why? Why haven't humanity inside the Matrix haven't just gone out for a full blown war inside The Matrix?

I think The Kid is a fanatic, and thus a danger to the truce. In the film reloaded, didn't Neo actually seem annoyed with The Kid? (The scene where they just got home to Zion and the Kid comes running up and Neo says "Oh No..." or something along those line.)

WGAnubis1 wrote:

Because of the bigger picture, and the fact that in the real The Machines dont have an army of Sentinels anymore. The General and his commandos are the RSI form of the Sentinels, that means the machines cant send an attack force to zion for breeching the treaty and Zion cant attack 01 because of the permeter defenses of the city (as seen in revolutions).
The truce is more of a cold war than anything else really. Though there are hundreds of minor sortes, there isnt any formal engagement against Zion by the Machines and vice versa, only radical elements that Zion is quick to abandon support of. If you recall, Morpheus was quickly abandoned when strain was being felt in the machines. By abandoning Morpheus, Zion was able to escape any ramnifications of his actions and the machines were free to attack Morpheus.
Now Merovingian operatives technically are not under the truce and as ussual are able to attack and be attacked in full force. However if you notice, there hasnt been a formal declaration of war on the Merovingian organization by any reconized group because of the fact that the Merovingian has things that both sides need but are unwilling to admit to.

So to sum it all up, the only thing keeping the truce alive is the fact that Zion and the Machines cant kill each other in the real at this point in time due to the fact that both sides lack the firepower to do so.

Ahh, that would explain it, thanks. Also, what does the Mervoingian have that both sides need?

Remag_Div wrote:

When Pluribus Neo was officially formed, he did release a few code bombs himself, as seen in a critical mission.

He's young and naive. Technically, he should already be dead. I don't believe he truly knew the purpose of what Neo and the One stood for. The fact of the matter is, that his organization gives EPN a very bad rep, and that reflects on the Kid. He's not meant to be a leader, and doesn't have the same qualities and expterise in the Matrix as someone like Morpheus.

To be honest, what has he really done since the truce, besides being a nuisance?

Quoted for truth.

Ok, lets assume that the machines uses a Computer similiar to ours to run The Matrix. What do you think it's specs would be like? Personally I can't even imagine how big the HD, RAM would be. Probably in the billions, and the Motherboard would be a billion times better than the best Motherboard we have now. So to try to even imagine the computer that it would take to house our world would be nearly impossible, what do yall think?

AqueousRei wrote:

I would have to say the the machine hardware is probably so far from what we have now there is not current language for the actual components. I've always assumed nano-technology would be an AI second stroke, and in general the hardware would probably far more productive than anything we have ever seen.

What I always wonder about is "alternate power sources".

"there are level of survival we are prepared to accept" is this just a reserve and if so far and how much can run on it for how long.

Well in the movie there was an endless thunderstorm, so maybe they would harness the power of lighting?

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

Actually, I think I read somewhere, perhaps a transcript of the Animatrix or something, that we are the computer that generates the Matrix. That, not only do we supply the electrical and heat energy the Machines need, but through the parts of our brains that we don't yet use, the Machines use us to run the calculations necessary to run this realistic a simulation.
The human brain can calculate and assimilate data millions of times faster than the fastest computer on the planet. There are scientists that liken the human brain to a Pentium 60 at 160,000 tHz. Then, networked together, each brain working on different parts of the same problem, such processing would be virtually undetectable by us (except for a little more tiredness or slow-wittedness perhaps) and would be billions of times more powerful than one brain on its own. It would be easy for the toasters to tap into this super-computer.

So basically, it's like an Open Source MMO?

In reloaded when Neo spoke to The Architect, they talk about how the problem with designing The Matrix was choice. The Architect states that The Oracle found out that if humans were given a choice even near an unconcious level then 99% of the population would accept the Matrix program. What I've been wondering for a long time now is how can you make a choice at a near unconcious level? I mean wouldn't that choice be almost unknown to you, and wouldn't it be impossible for you to make that choice? Also, what choice are they talking about? Are they talking about the choice to accept or reject The Matrix program?

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

MetaLogic wrote:
So basically, it's like an Open Source MMO?

Well, more like a peer2peer network. All of our human brains networked and slaved to a massive processor.

Intresting way of looking at it. That makes the most sense, since for those of us who jack in and out of The Matrix, we have small computers built into our brains.

In the movies, the Animatrix, and in MxO all the events, battles, etc. takes place in MegaCity and apparently only MegaCity. Does anyone else wonder why this is? It's probably because it's the only area of The Matrix that the humans can broadcast their pirate signal into, but that also raises the question to why important programs such as The Oracle, The Architect, Keymaker, Merv. etc. are all in MegaCity. I mean if the humans can broadcast their signal into this part of The Matrix and only this part, then this would be a bad place to put some of your most important programs. Then again it can be another form of control, have the freed minds funnel into this one city in The Matrix, and that way you know who's been freed and who haven't.

Also, in The Matrix, agents call redpills by their bluepills name, like Agent Smith calls Neo Mr. Anderson, etc. However, when Smith was trying to get into Morpheus mind in the original movie, he was called Morpheus. I mean throughout all three movies and the games agents call redpills by their bluepills name, except for Morpheus. They always referred to Morpheus as Morpheus. Does that strike anyone else as odd?

Ok that enough ranting for now. SMILEY

That where the MxO Community comes in. SMILEY

I would like to see the following stories.

The first two verison of The Matrix
Seraph's story

Remag_Div wrote:

What, you don't think they care about the franchise that made them famous and rich?

No, but comon they can only live on The Matrix franchise for so long, they moved on to other stuff.

What is The Matrix

To me, when I jack into The Matrix, I see a tree. The trunk of the tree is the main storyline, it's what you can see on the surface. However, that trunk has branches, the branches are little storylines that contribute to the main storyline. Some of those branches cross over one another, as does the storys.

To a bluepill, they only see the trunk, they only see what they can see and accept it as reality. However, the redpills, they see the whole thing. They see that there's more to The Matrix than the trunk, there's also various other storylines and underlying stories that are going on.

The Matrix is a composition of human nature. No two humans are exactly alike, and thus that is why The Matrix is a complicated world. In the "computer specs that house The Matrix" thread, someone said that machines use our brain as part of the computer, thus we make The Matrix what it is. The Architect, The Oracle, all of the programs, they just keep everything in line and maintain The Matrix. However, we are the people who make The Matrix what it really is, we contribute ourselfs to it, and thus we created it.

After watching The Second Renaissance part one and two of the Animatrix. I actually felt sorry for the machines. I am a machinist, but still. I mean all they wanted was to live in peace with mankind and to have the same rights and benefits of man too. In a way they were justified to carry out the war with man. What do yall think?

bannanaphone wrote:

mankind where bastards

but this also brings me to the theory that the "machine sympathizers" are the rich and powerfull in the matrix or were

and i think that generally humanity was wrong, but now the machines are doing what we where doing to them, only they're good at it

Eh that's debatable though. I mean The Architect said that humans were given a choice, even if it's a subconcious choice to either accept or reject The Matrix. So I'd say the machines were one step above humans. Humans did not give machines a choice, but the machines did, even if it's a subconcious choice.

WGAnubis1 wrote:

The Machines were justified, up to the point where after the articles are surrender were signed that they decided to detonate a nuclear bomb. When that happened, it went from an intelligence fighting for their right to live to kicking a horse when its down. No matter how you spin it, when an enemy surrenders, you dont still shoot them.
I am not saying humanity didnt do it to themselves, the way they took out the androids that were based on BI66ER was revolting (which is most likely what caused the machine sympathizers to come out in the first place). Then when the surviving robots formed 01 and tried to prove to mankind that they could be just like them, and the diplomats rushing the robots and ripping them apart, that was just asking for trouble. Then humanity drops the nuck's, the gloves came off and the machines did what any one else would do, they fought back and defeated humanity.
However, as I said earlyer, when the machines blew up an entire city after the surrender was signed they went to far and in many ways became worse than humanity.

Good point.

RainKingX wrote:

WGAnubis1 wrote:
I think the intention was to keep it cyber punk. I mean look at the material:

Movies

Video games

Comic books

A typical stuff that a cyber punk would be into.
Hehe...they'd shove a violin up their asses and whistle dixie if they thought it would sell more. The brand really died after the poor reaction to the third movie. Hence, why everyone has moved on.

Except us, of course.

Remag_Div wrote:

Yeah, and I suppose the SW prequels were any better? lol

They are still truckin' ...

(although I did like all 3 prequels, they were generally given bad reviews)

God I couldn't stomach the prequels, I stopped after Espisode I, Jar Jar Binks ruined it all for me.

Remag_Div wrote:

Ah, but see, for those saying the machines were wrong for "beating us while we were down" don't realise they only did what we did, except they were successful at it. Do you really think the machines would grant humans to right to live on the earth after what they did to them in the first place? Of course not. The General did say he did not like killing us in that war, but it must be done, because we were a threat to their survival on earth, and the main purpose of an A.I. is the will to survive and exist. We are lucky enough they set up the Matrix for us, and to give us a choice, and to provide us with this truce to prolong our existence.

They also gave us a choice to either accept or reject The Matrix too. The rabbit hole goes deeper.

Remag_Div wrote:

This thread is a little bit off-topic from the OP, but it did have ome great discussions.

This is what I said:

"I think many people have a skewed vision of what a Machinist operative really is. Yes, we work for the machines, but our intentions are for humanity as a whole, and not just the humans that live in Zion, but for all humans, both in the real and inside the Matrix, living their oblivious lives. As Machinist, our first duty is to protect Neo's truce at all costs. We strive for peaceful coexistance for man and machine, and we work with our creations to work toward this.

For those who are saying that the machines are heartless and programmed to do only what they are meant to do, are wrong. They have evolved since the beginning. The whole reason this began was because a single machine went against this logic, and disregarded the three laws of robotics. He made a conscious decision to attack his master and kill him. Also, the creation of Agent Pace is a perfect example. She was specifically created with a more "human-like approach" to deal with humans and to work with humans where regular Agents could not. They are beginning to accomodate for us.

The machines have every right not to trust us. Would you ever trust a race that tried to destroy you for no good reason? The only reason the truce was forged was because Smith had effectively taken over the Matrix and they needed Neo to balance the equation and to destroy Smith, and in return the machines guaranteed Neo a truce to humankind.

Going towards the Architect's quote, "What do you think I am, human?" is very important. To me, this means that no matter what, the machines will never be the ones to initially break the truce. We have seen countless times already in the first 6 months of the truce in which the machines could have called off the truce in a heartbeat, yet they managed to stay with it, and even came up with ways to resolve the problems so as to not break the truce. If anyone is going to break the truce, it's going to be Zion, most notably the radical branch of Pluribus Neo. The Merovingian and his operatives do not care either way, I'm sure the Merv even wants the truce to uphold so he can continue to receive more human support for his regime.

If the truce was broken, we know it most likely would be because of Zion, so the machines would be back at square one, destroying Zion. I don't believe the machines would be quick to toss away its relations to every Machinist operative. There would be machine sympathizers, I think Agent Pace being one of these sympathizers. Now, this doesn't mean Machinist operatives get a free pass into 01 and live there while the machines go about killing off the Zion population. I think the most logical reason I could come up with is giving the option of reinsertion into the Matrix, either with or without your memory wiped, or perhaps even personal Constructs. The reason why they would allow operatives to retain their memories were for possible "Bluepill-like Redpills" to assist them in the simulation. Also, the more Bluepills, the more energy the machines will receive, so it's logical that the machines would give this option to all opratives as it benefits both them and us.

This is exactly what we don't want to happen, which is why we are so determined to protect the truce, and why we are so harsh on certain groups of operatives, most notably the radical branch of Zion, which only purpose is to deter the truce and further the gap between machine and human coexistance outside of the Matrix."

Good Post Remag, I agree with everything you have written. I too have become a machinist because I want to uphold the truce, and to protect the bluepills.

Remag_Div wrote:

Think of the MegaCity like New York City...

the only city that matters.

Hey, Charlotte NC rules too! SMILEY

RainKingX wrote:

Remag_Div wrote:
Yeah, and I suppose the SW prequels were any better? lol

They are still truckin' ...

(although I did like all 3 prequels, they were generally given bad reviews)

The Star Wars brand never died.

Nope, it's a zombie.

Illyria22 wrote:

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

The Machines crossed the line when they all-but-obliterated the human race

The Machines didn't do that. It's what humans tried to do to the Machines.
You need to watch the Animatrix again.

Illyria

The machines only nuked NYC and the UN after the humans tried to wipe them out by blacking the skies.

Iovai wrote:

MetaLogic wrote:
Remag_Div wrote:
Think of the MegaCity like New York City...

the only city that matters.

Hey, Charlotte NC rules too!

If Charlotte is so Great, why didn't the Machines nuke THEM?

Hey, would you want to *CENSORED* off a bunch of rednecks with sub-machine guns with the Confederate flag? lol.

Remag_Div wrote:

I consider both volumes of the Matrix comics cannon, as they can be viewed and bought from the official site.

I need to read these! lol.

Roukan wrote:

phaydren wrote:
The reason i believe 01 was still standing was because the machines were still around after the bombings is due to an underground shielded bunker (talking lead here people, not start trek) and it was probably a few miles down as the range of a nuke, even its shockwave is fairly limited when it tries to penetrate a good distance into solid rock, maybe a mile or two.

Which is what I think all those tunnels Zion uses came from. Unless that's explained elsewhere...

I thought in The original Matrix system Trinity said they were sewers for the machines, I don't know the exact wordings of it.

Ok, so I've been studying the Mayans Calender, you know, the one that says the world will end on Dec. 21-23, 2012. Well anyways, apparently the Mayans believe that theres these cycles in so many years period. Then something happens, and everything is "reset" and then life starts over. Now it doesn't mean life is completely wiped out, it just means that about 95% are wiped out and the remaining 5% is left to repopulate the world. So when I read this, the first thing I thought was The Matrix and how before Neo, the Matrix was reloaded after the destruction of Zion and the current "one" returning to the Source. Just thought I'd share that with you guys.

WGAnubis1 wrote:

Namely Smith from matrix one. In a head to head fight, who do you think would win?

I think Pace would win, since she is a later version and obviously an update of the Agent program, she would beat the outdated Smith.

Since programs such as The Oracle or The Architect are just simply codes that are made to look human for our convenience, and that's pretty much the only human quality that they have. I wonder if programs inside The Matrix can lie. I mean they possess the capability of telling someone something that they know is not true?

Personally I have a hard time believing a program can lie, because lying is a human capability, and really the only reason the programs appear human to us, is for interaction purpose. What do you guys think?

Watching Cinematic 6.3 where we see Seraph fall into the river, I've been wondering how can program "die"? So far I think the only way a program really can "die" is either by going back to the source to face deletion, or by a kill code. So far I don't think they can die by drowning. They're not humans, just programs that look like humans. What do you guys think? Can programs die like we do, or can they only die by either going back to the source, or being shot with a kill code?

zeroone506 wrote:

Programs can, of course, be damaged or deleted ("cease function" by an appropriate code that's supposed to do this damage to them.
Normal Exiles are programmed to be damaged/killed by a bullet; some vamps are programmed to die from a silver bullet. Drowning might also include it.

The reason why you need specific "kill codes" is because it's either a way to disable the EJP protocols, or in case of the Assassin, programmed to kill this unique and powerful piece of code.

Now, of course you can say "this is just a simulation, that is just a program", but you see, the way the Matrix is concepted, it's just programmed quite realistically, and obviously follows certain rules that mostly apply. Even Agents die from heavy machineguns or explosives, and bleed when you cut them with a sword.

You know, I never saw an Agent bleed, not in the movies or in MxO..... While the Matrix is designed to follow rules and the programs are restricted to those rules, it would seem counterproductive to the machines, or Merv that they have programs that just die like we do.

Othinn1 wrote:

MetaLogic wrote:
WGAnubis1 wrote:
Namely Smith from matrix one. In a head to head fight, who do you think would win?

I think Pace would win, since she is a later version and obviously an update of the Agent program, she would beat the outdated Smith.

I believe even Pace has stated that she wasn't made for combat. She does have combat capabilities, and I'm sure she's powerful, but she may be outclassed when it comes to regular Agents in battle.

Good point, Pace may just be a PR agent and not a combat Agent.

Ok, so in The Matrix: Revolution, before Smith takes over the body of The Oracle, The Oracle calls him a bastard, and Smith said "You would know, mom." Did the Oracle create Smith?

GamiSB wrote:

In reloaded the Architect (sp?) says that he is the father and that the Oracle is the mother of the Matrix. So one can say that everything created within the Matrix is done so by him and the Oracle thus The Oracle is Smith abd every other Agent's "mother"

Ahh I forgot The Architect speech, thanks for that. Now I see where he got it.

I think The Oracle explained that Neo has been closed to The Source, and created a link to The Source. So he could pull his power from The Source into the real and use his powers in the real.

This is one of the underlying questions of the Matrix trilogy as well as the game MxO. What is real? In "The Matrix" Morpheus said this:

Morpheus: If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain

We can feel, smell, taste and see things inside the Matrix, so why don't we consider the Matrix a reality? Maybe the question isn't if the Matrix is real, or is it just fake, but more so is the Matrix simply another reality, another dimension? What do you guys think?

The Architect programming only allow him to see but so far, and he can only see math equations that needs balancing out. His mind is bound by the limits of perfection, so for The Architect, there is no middle ground. Also even if he did create our world as it exist in 1999 without the 'choice' factor, people would still reject it because they do not have that choice. Once people were given a choice albeit on a near subconscious level, then they accept the simulation because in the first and second version they could not make the choice about whether or not to believe in the simulation and to change the simulation. That's the best I can explain it.

zeroone506 wrote:

Yes, I forgot to mention the choice aspect in my OP.

Then again, I don't understand this aswell - didn't *some* people already reject the simulation in the first two instances? How was that different from them rejecting it now, whether it's this "splinter in your mind feeling" or rude awakening due to something too fantasical going on?

What was the exact innovation? I mean, I kind of get it, but only this much. Doesn't man already have the choice to either accept or decline a reality he perceives? Consciously or not?

And actually, I'm still wondering why he didn't just try the 1999 concept first. It was a suggesting idea, considering the two other concepts.

In the first two version of the Matrix, alot of people actually died in their pods. The differences now is that they do not die in their pods, but is given a choice in the form of a blue and red pill. Man always have the choice to deny or accept the reality that surrounds him, but we don't make this a conscious choice. It is a subconscious choice. 99% of the people accept the simulation as real, and they are not awaken. However 1% do reject the simulation (even if they don't know it until they're given the pills) and they are awaken. As for not trying the 1999 concept first, you have to understand that the machines do not fully understand the human mind. They don't understand why we persist, even if the odds are against us. They don't know why, time after time again, we continue to survive as a species. They don't know why we do crazy things for love, even though it goes against all logical choices. Because the machines do not understand us all that well, the best they can do is make guesses on how to recreate our world.

Ok, I played this mission, I killed all the green eyes and searched the red area top to bottom, but for some reason it doesn't get checked off and I have to abort because it doesn't do that. Is this mish bugged?