Search Results: 122 messages were found

A very thorough answer, just what I was looking for. I'll take it under consideration. If I decide SC I'll be in touch, times are spotty at the moment though, engaged in a whole lotta drama in RL.

How do you manage the tri-server thing? Do you sort of all pile onto one server at a time or are you scattered around? Do you have more of a presence on Vector than the other two servers?

I r considering the SC

The Machines ran a perfectly stable Matrix over several runs until the Oracle and the One put an end to it. As for evolution, are you telling me the Machines of today are no more advanced than B1GG3R? They have grown physically, mentaly and emotionally. If they were inflexible Exile would not be an option.

What will happed to he Exiles should EPN succeed in shutting down the System? If the Machines actually (through some unforeseen possibility) lose the war against Zion?

I won't deny that there are lessons to be learned by both Man and Machine from select Exiles. However since so many of them can become disruptive they have no place in Machine society in the Real. Exiles are exiled to keep them from harming Machine civilization. Provided they find new purpose or simply do not disrupt the System they are left in peace within the Matrix. A great many programs take comfort in knowing that when they eventually become out-dated they can end their lives with dignity or choose to retire to the Matrix.

Wouldn't it have to considered an increase in gang activity... shootings require bodies and all the other stuff we don't leave behind.

The fact is people can't make the decision in their own best interests until it has already been made. The vast majority would choose truth and the red-pill only to regret it for the rest of their lives. The majority of people dependent on the System. In the Real they simply would not cope. Their sub-conscious knows more than their conscious mind ever should.

How many Cypherites are you going to create by waking those who deep down do not desire it?
Do you think they will all thank you for forcing them into a reality they would rather not accept?

There is no trial period, theres no try before you buy, once your out your out for good, your old life, your home, your comforts, your security, knowing you'll live to see tomorrow, all of that is gone. But you dangle the word "truth" in front of them and succulent bait it is indeed leading many to make the wrong choice for themselves. Already we have a sizable faction of people from the 1% deemed ready for awakening who would rather be asleep, that number would escalate into the millions if every single person was presented with the choice.

If you wish to argue choice what of those born into lives of despair and poverty in Zion? The "freeborn" never have the option of remaining in the Matrix, they remain ever slaves to Zion, trapped in a prison they can all too easily see, touch, and smell. They lack even the temporary escape of jacking into the Matrix or even a construct.

Finally: we differ on our definition of religion but such arguments are generally circular, I shall leave the matter, refer to your "institution" however you wish. Of course I assume you see the irony of a philosophy that encompasses all of reality as a universal whole and thus part of the self and then seperates itself from that by classing itself as institutionalized religion.

((The 16 females and 7 Males are primarily there to ensure the 1% is removed from the simulation. Considering the number of people within the matrix achieving a population of that size would be quite simple over the years especially taking into account that many of those people taken from the Matrix become a part of their breeding population.

Would help if we knew how many blue-pills there are and how large the Matrix really is.))

An insane human gives out as much energy as sane one. In fact were it to come down to energy efficiency keeping us in constant state of agitation and stimulation (such as that induced by torture) would increase our output.

Lost crops were probably killed to keep them from remaining conscious in their pods. Compared to the alternatives of the time, when Zion did not exist, this was likely more merciful than keeping them alive.

EDIT: Removed was a reply to spam.

How was a question about bonus caps spam?

Hanzyl and Gretyl wrote:

Blackleaf wrote:
I considered Vector-Hostile as my original server (I'm quite a fan of open PvP servers) however the lack of population persuaded me to head over to Syntax.

Quiter.

I noes... but I see more PvP on Syntax. Sad but true. Of course non-flagged healers and rezs are a pita there I imagine so if anyone out there is listening perma-flag in downtown plz.

In before constructs and lol.

Freedom at ANY price...

Freedom from what is the real mystery of course. I guess for many humans there is a switch somewhere in their mind that has only two settings Superior or Oppressed, because if they aren't one they seem to think they must be the other.

Cov pretty much has it. The purpose of Zion was to provide the choice faced by the One ensuring he would return to the source and the primary code he contained would be used to restart the Matrix.

This meant that the cycle starts and ends with choice, the very code of it is reliant upon it and everyone has it. Thankfully for the Machines 99% of people would naturaly prefer ignorant yet secure lives to exciting hazardous ones.

Before this thread goes too far off track I'd like to thank Aquantium for his words. They show that there are some among the Zionite population who still see peace as preferable to victory.

As for Mave, aren't we already having this discussion elsewhere?

Fixed it, apparently my new speedtouch modem is not connected to the internet. But it works fine on the old one... odd but meh.

I know. Thats why I'm on Syntax. That is also why the majority of new players who take the time to look around will be on Syntax. If the trend continues then Syntax will be the only server with a reasonable population... which would effectively be a server merge but would leave those who wanted to enjoy a well populated open pvp environment out in the cold.

Of course they already are, I considered Vector-Hostile as my original server (I'm quite a fan of open PvP servers) however the lack of population persuaded me to head over to Syntax.

Login issues:

An error has occurred while connecting to the patch download server.

URL open failed. Patch servers down or internet connection problem.

Keep trying?

Received unexpected result code from patcher (0)

I was on-line yesterday after the hot-fix. Currently using client version 7.5609. Any further information you need let me know.

Allow me to alter the analogy to clarify. If two prize fighters arrange a bare-knuckle boxing match and beat each other within an inch of their lives this is slightly different from murdering a law enforcement officer while trespassing on government property.

If I arranged to fight someone to the point of triggering the EJP then no, no guilt should be involved.
If I fight an opposing red-pill to remove them from the simulation and trigger their EJP then no guilt should be involved.

How can you even begin to compare this to killing a blue-pill?

Also if you think the Agents don't care for the blue-pills your wrong. It may purely be on programming level (they take pride in their efficiency) but their very existence revolves around protecting the System and the people who are part of it. Were they not available then the only other response would be standard human law enforcement. Cops vs red-pills... it never goes particularly well.

As a final note have you never considered that if the blue-pills are just batteries to the Machines why do they bother with the simulation. Would it not be more efficient to simply keep them comatose or worse just leave them conscious but restrained?

C'mon Oranos, you could still gank folks 10 or more levels lower than you in downtown. SMILEY

I still don't understand why a merge would be considered bad PR wise. Consolidating the community, providing better support for high population areas (which is possible with a single server), and tripling the number of live events all sound good to me. The general opinion of the public is that MxO is failing.. that is when they have an opinion the spotlight hasn't shone this way in quite some time.

As mentioned it's a real issue when new players log-in, run around for a few hours and see only one or two other players.

I'd like to see epic PvP in downtown, I'd like to see more events, I'd like to see more people. The major problem as Ive said before is the people who have leveled 50's on other servers.... wouldn't you rather have one 50 on one server with all the folks you love and hate? Building up three seperate persona's just to experience more live events, open PvP, or to engage socially with another section of the community seems inefficient use of our "play" time.

...all that said there are other threads on this topic that are still live (despite the efforts of those who insist we must not discuss such things)and showing in the first page of "recent topics" did we really need another one?

Still intent on trespassing I see. I wonder how Zion would react if we sent in a few Sentinels to retrieve some data the Machines happened to leave there last time they were shutting the place down.

((Some excellent screenies there btw, looked like a great event))

The truce is over, attacking armed craft is pure common sense. We are at war. It doesn't mean the Machines intend to go straight for the kill, though as you point out since Neo and the prime source code required to reset the Matrix are no longer available Zion no longer retains it's original purpose. It would appear that despite this the Machines are not out for the kill as EPN and a sizable number Zionite red-pills are, they seek to "nullify Zion's ability to inflict harm within the System." If it is necessary to destroy New Zion, or even Old Zion in the interests of the security of Machine civilization and the humans relying upon it then steps will of course be taken.

Without purpose the only reasons for Zion to be kept intact were honoring the agreement with the One and the hope for peace. However survival ranks way ahead of peace, the statements on your recording were made after the intent of certain persons to destroy the System were made clear. As you can imagine groups of humans planning to wipe out Machine civilization has halted the peace process and placed the Machines in an aggressive stance.

Personally I would have it no other way. Though I believe in peace I'm not willing to see a drawn out war and the damage it will cause to both sides. If Zion officially sides with EPN then I am in favor of retaliation for the sake of the safety of the blue-pill population, the System in general (and by-proxy the Exiles), Machine civilization, Machine operatives, and myself.

However until such time as Zions intents are made clear no order has been given to engage beyond ships of war outside of Zion territory and Zion operatives within the simulation. Both are sensible precautions until the Machines are aware of what level of threat is posed by Zion in these new and troubling times.

The problem with most of "free" humanity is their belief in "freedom" at any price.

Ironically while they see well enough to define that they are free they still fight for... freedom, theirs and that of those who choose to remain in the Matrix. Perhaps it is just an excuse for further violence, many humans simply cannot accept Machines as our equals and feel a dire need to exert their dominance over them.

No doubt some Zionite will come argue that they are not free. Let me put it this way, you have as much freedom as any country had before the second renaissance. They could do as they wished within their own borders but were aware that threatening another nations security was unwise with so many nuclear warheads knocking around.

They do view humanity as inherently superior to any other form of life.

Red supremacists most of them.

Good advice, thanks much

I was hunting through the forum for a faction and found that, due to certain recent events, most of the data is out of date. While I myself am looking for a Machine (or maybe even Cypherite) faction there are plenty of others who likely look with confusion on some of these ancient OPs.

An update is in order. Especially with the big shake up in politics of late.

Faction:
RP:
PvP:
Number of active members:

Other than that state what you feel is important, your goals, your views, opinion on the current situation, what makes your faction distinct from the others and lastly how your faction feels and acts towards the other organizations.

Oh noes *CENSORED* are up to something.

Could all Zionites please pipe up here so we can have an idea how many of you are siding with the madman.

((What! I can't say EP double e N on the forums, gimme a break.))

At least a few members of EPN are capable of rational thought, perhaps there is hope some will "jump ship" before their quite obviously insane leader does something... rash.

I've managed to tag most of Westview, however having to escort an NPC as the fourth or fith stage of a mission through a red/purple zone is about as annoying as it gets. Theres no way of knowing before hand that an escort stage is going to be issued for an area well above your level. Just thought Id share my current gripe... I'm off to find something else to do while I level up to the point where I don't have my time wasted running archive missions (which I have until now been greatly enjoying).

Signs wrote:

Religions once started wars, but religion has evolved since then. The exoteric religions may bring war and zealotry, but the esoteric religions hold our only hope for Enlightenment. Exoteric religions simply recognize reality's central nature as it arises, or Enlightenment. What good is living without external conflict, under the Machines' sense of order and control, if Enlightenment is forbidden. It is true that under the Truce we were allowed to free people in small numbers, but this was merely the previous phase of Enlightenment. Enlightenment, like everything, evolves. Progress must be made. The fact remains that the Machines would not, and still will not, return the body of The One, or give as any answers as to what truely happened to him, so that we may further explore our own reality as it arises, with the answers that Neo continues to provide, even in death. Furthermore, the Matrix itself is a place where they allow nothing to actually happen. No major event can take place, because that would wake up masses. But the nature of humanity is full of a desire to create major events, massive landmarks through an existence that is ultimately fleeting. If the bluepill's "choice" to remain in their pods is so fragile, is it really a choice at all?
And also, as the dictators you speak of, if they produced truly harmful results, they were not working for the cause of true Enlightenment. However, also remember, that long ago, there were those ironically called Enlightened Despots, and many of them layed the institutional foundation for the democracy you seem to so enjoy. This is not quite the Enlightenment I am speaking of, but I just thought I'd point it out.

Exactly when did religion evolve? Zion was constantly getting wiped out not too long ago and in the Matrix it is always 1999.

As for the body of the One, he's as much their savior as your if you wish to see it in a religious light. He was a part of the System, he was part program as well as part man. He is also the only know anti-virus for defeating a full breakout of the Smith virus... what do you want an autopsy and burial or a possible return to the Matrix?

You next point is correct, very little happens in the lives of the blue-pills but it is NOT the nature of humanity to strive for greatness, it may be the nature of say 1% or so of the population but the rest are quite content to live quiet, routine, peaceful lives. Yes, this peace is fragile, but it is what they choose, would you rather they were forced into a world of torn woolen sweaters, protein goop, and cold war? They may be living in denial but as has been said ignorance is bliss and they should be allowed to live that way if that is what they choose.

Democracy... where? I certainly enjoy no democracy, I receive my orders, follow them, and do pretty much whatever I want the rest of the time provided it doesn't disrupt the System. Does Zion run on a democracy? Is the council so elected? I don't recall ever getting the chance to vote when i was in Zion.

The Enlightenment you seek seems to be the realization of the self. "Know thyself" As the Oracle would put it. This philosophy is not for everyone, some people are quite happy not knowing, failure to realize this is or ignoring their view is zealotry.
Any of the great minds of the esoteric religions would tell you also that Enlightenment of the self requires no external change, no evangelism, you do not need to save the world to save yourself in fact such efforts are quite contrary to inner peace, acceptance, and the efforts to enhance spiritual wellbeing of the self and those around you. One is only expected to live as they feel is right, to follow their path, not to force others to it. That is the true nature of knowing yourself, knowing your path is different from others, what is right for one person is not bey extension right for all.

Of course these same minds would have been quick to tell you that their philosophies were not religions.

Now until you formalize code, dogma, ritual, mythology, etc could you please stop referring to your philosophy as a religion.

If Zion were wiped out, and IF (big if) the Machines could find no continued purpose for it's human operatives inside or outside the Matrix then we would be given the same option every program is, exile or death. Retiring to live out the rest of my days in comfort doesn't sound all that bad to me. Perhaps I shall join Sallo for a glass or two of wine some day.

However a resource as valuable as us Machinists (assuming there is no attachment to us at all) would not be squandered. We could oversee the Awakened population, we could replace the Agents (since humanity will be a greater asset than strength with no other red-pills running around), we could be put in place overseeing major blue-pill organizations to ensure the smopth running of the System there are many tasks to which a human is more suited than a Machine.

Aquatium. wrote:

You might wish to make a big deal of this "contest" you call it, however Fallen Horizon WILL defend itself if attacked by agents, it's called self defense. You fail to understand we don't go looking for agents, they are looking for us.

Apologies for the number of replies, but I can't let this pass. Agents are not hunting you down in the Real. You are trespassing. If you were not taking unlawful action there would be no need for self-defense. Are you saying it is justifiable to assault and kill a police officer who is trying to remove you from government property?

sallo wrote:

If I were purely logical (I understand this may require a large leap in faith but humor me should time and Tim permit), if I had a program that worked for centuries upon centuries that was eventually thwarted by a monkey wrench (for sake of argument we'll call this monkey wrench "Neo", naturally I would logically concur that the program would need updating and that time would need to be expended to do so, two or so years should be plenty enough.

I would take it as a logical theory that humans have a perchance for war as they are beings of progression. Give those suckers an inch and those vexating fleshy creatures will just stretch and stretch and stretch in as many directions as their mind contends. I would even go as far to allow several to be awakened so that they can explore different ways they will inevitably war against themselves in the name of such progression. If you consider all the great wars in human history and the time it took the humans to come to the silly misguided conclusion that war was the only answer, the only possible solution why, I think I could even come up with a general equation that computes just how long it takes men to get themselves into a tizzy dependant on how many were involved in the equation (how many awakened), and how many strong opposing views and lifestyles they carry (range: 3-5). Then use this theoretical equation to gauge about how much time I needed to conjure up a new program, though the quicker would be better considering the squabs do cause such a ruckus.

Did you hear a ruckus? I clearly heard a ruckus.

"What ruckus?"

::chuckles to self::

Naturally I would let the humans war against themselves for these "ideals" that they had, let them thin each other out so that it would be easier to implement the few left standing after the great war into the new program. Less resistence equals hooray! Essentially, isn't it all a numbers game?

If I were logical I would simply say, why even ask this question of trust, oh wait, I'm not asking, my human scallywags are the ones that are asking, I suppose they're useful for something. I would simply look at my clock, give a once over to my equations, put the finishing touches on this new program I was working on then watch the show.

Truly, a Merovingian has no place in this thread. We must be misguided in thinking that when the toaster humans and the cave monkeys finish their business and are thus in perfect position to be implemented in the new program that we also will not be a part of it.

That we'll have a greater liklihood of being alive and awakened. Which seems ironic no? Seeming as we have so little human interest.~

Firstly the program is not broken, it has opened up the potential for peace between us, something the Machines likely never thought possible.

Secondly, logic, the Machines are not creatures of logic. They feel, to greater and lesser degrees. The "logical" thing to have done would be to have ignored the truce as soon as Neo was done with Smith, wipe Zion out and continue the cycle. That would have allowed them to continue with the control so many think they crave above all else, that is what logic dictates they should do even now.

As a Merv you should be well aware of the presence of Machine emotion, or do you consider your Exile allies to not have been Machines? The Merovingian holds an important place in the simulation, he is a central control for the Exile population, without him their would be chaos within and outside the Matrix.

Mave wrote:

Fen wrote:
Mave wrote:
Illyria22 wrote:
Here is another reason not to trust Zion, one we learned tonight. Zion's liaison officer Rylet has offered up a bounty on agents, the ones with a combat level of 100. But as we all know, agents use the bodies of bluepills as hosts...
So every time Zion kills an agent for their little contest, they are murdering a bluepill.
This is nothing like the the combat tests we've seen before. In the past, when a liaison has run an efficiency test, the targets have always been other redpills. No-one and nothing is harmed, except perhaps the pride of those whose rsi's are sent back to the loading area. But this time is very different. This time, those who are shot down will not get up again. (Except for the agents, who cannot be killed permanently in this fashion, making the entire operation an exercise in futility.)
I've read the opinions of many Zionites...they say that they stand for humanity, that they are the last hope for the human race, that they are fighting for freedom. But now Zion has turned murder into a *contest*.
And you really expect the Machines to trust you, when you would kill your own kind for sport?

Illyria

Soooooo let me get this straight. You make us look bad because we're fighting agents, when your own Agent Gray held a very similar contest for you guys months back?

Man I'm looking for a word...man...what is it? Oh yeah: HYPOCRASY!

Oh and feel free to somehow take my words out of content. You guys a pretty "efficient" at that.

Efficiently Yours,

Mave.

::walks off laughing due to high levels of Irony::

The thing that was different about that, is that redpill operatives can reconstruct. A bluepill that an Agent took over cannot.
I understand completely where Illyria is coming from, and the source of her concern.
I just find it slightly hypocritical that she talks of Zionites murdering bluepills when they kill Agents, and yet she and hers talk of destroying two cities that hold a population of millions. People who are just as innocent as the bluepills. She talks of dumping chemical and biological agents into New Zion... one of them even suggest heating the strata so that New Zion would fill up with magma, burning everyone down there alive. Let's not forget the great radiation idea that Illyria had, where she even commented that it's not like they'd have to worry about the environment on the surface.

Yeah... off the high horse.

While EJP may be active on redpills, that doesn't exclude the fact that the contest was based around hunting other human beings. Hunting human beings is still hunting human beings.

If you can't differentiate between the equivalent of boxing and paint-balling and the slaughter of innocents, you must possess a very damaged mind. One might put forward that were the Agents not utilizing those shells then the blue-pills would not be harmed, but the Agents are trying to defend the System and so by-proxy the blue-pill population. The alternative is sending standard blue-pill law-enforcement to deal with red-pills and we all know how poorly that goes for the blue-pills. Nobody is asking Zion to trespass within the Matrix and hunt down it's guardians.

GypsyJuggler wrote:

FFQ: The over-arching theme for the last era of the story was "peace and the things people do to destroy it" or something to that effect; what is the theme for this new era of the story?

I'll second that question, unless it's too early to reveal it.

Well said Croesus. I don't think I could have replied as... democratically. I have a deep seated hatred for how people pervert philosophy, through blind faith, into an excuse for to disregard the views and rights of others.

Alphaea wrote:

Let me give you an example of a good foundation for trust.

Iovai: Stuff that 'theoretically' could be used to breach new Zion.
Iovai: Theoretically.
Illyria1: Smallpox and plutonium could theoretically be used to breach New Zion too.
GQubed: Where can I pick up some of Coating?
Iovai: I'm working on that.
Illyria1: No need to send an armed ship when you can use biologics or radiation.
Sugaree: hot lava diverted down their throats would also be quite effective. and efficient, too
Eventual: Their infrastructure is not without its vunerabilities

Do you feel my sarcasm?

A few soldiers sitting around idly gossiping about how they'd like to pour lead into the enemy trenches in the dead of night doesn't mean every soldier thinks it and certainly doesn't mean the public or their government would think it's a great idea either.

Now if you hear Dues Ex Machina mumbling to himself about such things then please, relay it here for all to see. I've heard many anti-Machine statements I don't assume that means the Zion Council thinks that way, I've heard many EPN criticisms, I never believed it until I heard it directly from the Kid.

And Aquantium you should know better, you really think no Zion red-pills have a cool beer and good natter about how they would destroy 01? It's war, cold or hot, troops talk like that and trying to use Machinists to show Machine point of view is just plain wrong. As Zion would point out, we do what we're told, we're not running the show.

Ah-ha finally, a random construction worker cleverly named "bluepill" much like everyone else in there (and who is an identical triplet) has opened up the second door. Before I leave the area I may have to kill her, of kiss her, Im undecided. SMILEY

[EDIT: Thanks for the offer though, much appreciated]

Handle = Blackleaf, may be working the forums when you get back but I'll check every 5mins or so. Thanks again.

[EDIT: 2hrs yes, but I may be missing something ridiculously simple]

Still no joy, but I'm on Syntax so I'll take you up on your kind offer since this mission has eaten nearly two hours of my time already. I'll send you a tell when I see you on-line.

I assumed the first run had a missing NPC on his way to grid 0,0,0.. it's happened before. Running through it again though Gray decided to place the final stage in restricted territory... for the lulz. The guy you speak to who wants it discussed with his boss was the one who opened the door to the stripper last time. But this time I got an operator message on finding the second sealed door (which didn't happen last time though i did find the door). Hopefully this time...

Keep having trouble with these missions, this time I'm being told to search the area. I got the door opened to the... lass in latex, but from there I haven't a clue. One room is still sealed on the second floor, I've spoken with everyone, checked everywhere, what am I missing?

Trust is not diplomacy. It does not require the exchange of representatives, establishment of embassies etc. You can have those things with a nation you don't trust in the least as has been seen.

What I imagine many Machinists are trying to do here is suggest the idea that if humans behave as reasonable non-violent creatures they will be treated as such.