Oh yeah, I second Othinn's question. I'd almost forgotten about that.
I also have another one: A while ago, I believe it was in one of the ask a dev threads at least a year if not two years ago, you said that one of the ideas you posed to the brothers (via Chadwick?) was shot down. Do you think you could tell us what it was?
Pretty sure he confirmed elsewhere that that was to do with the Machines not actually using humans as a power source.
Neoteny wrote:
Oh yeah, I second Othinn's question. I'd almost forgotten about that.I also have another one: A while ago, I believe it was in one of the ask a dev threads at least a year if not two years ago, you said that one of the ideas you posed to the brothers (via Chadwick?) was shot down. Do you think you could tell us what it was?
I believe he stated recently that the only idea shot down was the idea that humans were not used as batteries/energy sources for the Machines, that that was a Machine lie (ie. they were being imprisoned for other reasons).
Villemar_MxO wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Oh yeah, I second Othinn's question. I'd almost forgotten about that.I also have another one: A while ago, I believe it was in one of the ask a dev threads at least a year if not two years ago, you said that one of the ideas you posed to the brothers (via Chadwick?) was shot down. Do you think you could tell us what it was?I believe he stated recently that the only idea shot down was the idea that humans were not used as batteries/energy sources for the Machines, that that was a Machine lie (ie. they were being imprisoned for other reasons).
I am working on those merv missions that investigated that. I loved those missions.
Fen wrote:
Rarebit wrote:I'll just say that it had to do with me noticing that we had an in-game model for a pod. Pics or it didn't happen.
Rarebit wrote:
I'll just say that it had to do with me noticing that we had an in-game model for a pod.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Hm let's see... Ah.
I'm not 100% sure it would have been usable, and at best I'd probably have had to have put it in a locked room with a lot of steam/smoke/haze around it, and you'd just get a bit of a glimpse of it through an interior window while battling tough NPCs in the room outside or something.
That is just awesome.
Othinn1 wrote:
I have another question, Rarebit. During a chapter 10.2 Zion mission, the player encounters a bluepill who is apparently a disguised redpill whose organization can't be verified. The character mentions that it was about time they sent someone. And in a desk there's a note saying something like "your contact's name is Soren", which appears to be a reference to Captain Soren, who died before the truce started. Is this some poor uninformed redpill, or is something else going on? At the time, with Mauser running around and this note that mentions a long dead captain, I was beginning to wonder if the Oligarchs were taking the bodies of dead characters and using them for their own purposes.
I have another question, Rarebit. During a chapter 10.2 Zion mission, the player encounters a bluepill who is apparently a disguised redpill whose organization can't be verified. The character mentions that it was about time they sent someone. And in a desk there's a note saying something like "your contact's name is Soren", which appears to be a reference to Captain Soren, who died before the truce started.
Is this some poor uninformed redpill, or is something else going on? At the time, with Mauser running around and this note that mentions a long dead captain, I was beginning to wonder if the Oligarchs were taking the bodies of dead characters and using them for their own purposes.
Poor and uninformed is the correct answer. They were a wartime Zion plant whose contact had been lost before the beginning of the Truce, so they hadn't received any word and didn't know what had happened since then.
ZaneZavin wrote:
I like the general idea of the oligarchs, but I'm not all too fond of the final resolution and trinity and neo as perfect genetic design etc. I give Rarebit much credit for coming up with something that does fit with the overall source material.
When putting the OP together I realized that I'd sort of been heading away from the "genetic" explanation toward having them as pure programs, maybe just because that ended up being easier to convey. I'm not sure now if I'd have kept going that way or not.
Ok, I do like the idea that Neo and Trinity were BIPs or more susceptible specimens for a consciousness transfer. It makes sense because they both had some ability beyond the others which could mean they were more connected to the machine side in their ability to hack the program.
As far as the genetic thing, I think back to Neo's conversation with The Architect and it wouldn't make sense unless pretty much everything Archy said was a lie. I think the only thing he lied about was the doors. If Neo is an anomaly that was beyond his control, then he wouldn't have been specifically created with that purpose etc.
My take on the whole storyline is, what happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way.
As far as the genetic thing, I think back to Neo's conversation with The Architect and it wouldn't make sense unless pretty much everything Archy said was a lie. [...] If Neo is an anomaly that was beyond his control, then he wouldn't have been specifically created with that purpose etc.
It was the Oracle who came up with the inherent error scheme. The Architect allowed it, but he did so knowing that that part of it wasn't something over which he had direct control.
Heyyy this is a good opportunity to mention that personally (I wouldn't enforce this on others, mind you, since it's pretty touchy in some ways), I don't think Neo was "the anomaly." The Architect calls him "the eventuality of an anomaly," which is different than actually being the anomaly. If you have to pick a character as the anomaly, it seems to me that it would have been Smith; but I think it's more accurate to say that the "anomaly" he was talking about was the cascading system of errors that inevitably result from the current Matrix program's built-in imperfection that allows for a small percentage of the populace to reject it ("the anomaly is systemic," etc). The tricky part about this interpretation is that one of those knuckleheaded Agents later says "The anomaly" when he finds Neo; I explain this away for myself (whee magic!) by making excuses like "Agents didn't know everything" or "the Agent was simply referring to Neo as one of the primary manifestations of the consequences of the anomaly."
I think the only thing he [the Architect] lied about was the doors.
The doors?
The Architect calls him "the eventuality of an anomaly," ..."the Agent was simply referring to Neo as one of the primary manifestations of the consequences of the anomaly."
Sounds pretty good if you ask me.
Heyyy this is a good opportunity to mention that personally (I wouldn't enforce this on others, mind you, since it's pretty touchy in some ways), I don't think Neo was "the anomaly." The Architect calls him "the eventuality of an anomaly," which is different than actually being the anomaly.
This is how I saw it watching the films even though those upgraded Agents called him the anomaly. Mind you saying "It's him, the product of the anomaly, do we proceed.." etc.. doesn't sounds as good!
So during my time in MxO I've come to think of Neo as a part of the anomaly. I tend to see the anomaly as a whole, rather than seeing the anomaly as a cause with Neo as a product.
I'm more of the belief that both Neo and Smith are anomalous.
When I refer to the doors I mean how The Architect says, "here are two doors. The door to your right leads to the Source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the Matrix, to her and to the end of your species. "
I feel that he is says this in an attempt influence Neo toward the choice that he wants.
Definition of Anomalous included because I like the duality in how both meanings of the word could be correct.
Deviating from the normal or common order, form, or rule.Equivocal, as in classification or nature.
So the reason the Oligarch's appeared as "wire-framed humans" was because they were jacking in from android bodies or because they were pure consciousness? The simulation was unable to recognize the android body because it wasn't human? They wanted the BIP so they could jack in with humans that they extracted from the Matrix? Is that about right?
Here ya go:
When Neo blew up Smith in the end of the first movie, Smith said in Reloaded that some part of Neo wrote onto him. He didn't understand what happened. That said, some part of Smith probably also wrote onto Neo. This connected Smith and Neo, and 'the anomoly' could refer to either or both. At the time, the Agents did not seem to be aware of Smith's continued existance... so at the time, they would have viewed Neo as THE anomoly (since he contained a piece of Smith within him).
