[10.1.3] "EPN transfers Lock to Zion due to a now safe and secure battlefield" - Recursion - 4/23/08

**Shinryu**

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Hmm, Proc, you know you're in the minority amongst your fellow Machinists in feeling the way you do towards the Podhuggers? I'd say, oh . . . 95% of all Machinists would side with Cypherites just because it's a chance to fight Zion/EPN/Mervs.

While I'll freely admit the numbers aren't as high as I'd like them to be, I sincerely doubt that they are as small as you believe.

**Omega0**

Stanten wrote:

It's already well known that they were awakening more than what they were supposed to which was breaking the truce.
So let's just allow people who've secretly been building the previously mentioned city awakening far more than they were supposed to and who knows what else to just pack up everyone and everything and move on.

That's pretty funny, coming from a Cypherite. You people think that awakening one person is too many. Perhaps this devastating loss will motivate you to overcome your fear of the real world and get some more experience battling other hovercrafts. (Sneaking on someone's hovercraft and pulling their jacks does not count as a battle.) Also, when you look at how much more experience all of the other teams in this battle had, it should be obvious that most people do not share your fear of the real world, and therefore you shouldn't stop them from being awakened. But I don't expect you to realize that.

NightTrace

I'm not going to quote Proc and go down his points in single order.

I could, and agree with him on some and disagree on others.

But there isn't a main point.

Instead I'm going to respond to what he's said in one general sweep.

Proc, you want peace. I want peace. Alot of us want peace. However "New Zion" and the trends of the Zion High Command were not and will continue TO not lead us to peace. The "ask how high when we say jump" nature of the Machines was also not leading us to peace.

The best means we have of ever seeing peace is to remove and replace the bad seeds that have led us to our current position. That means sometimes doing things underhanded, secretive and cruel.

Peace is possible, but it's only going to become renewed at the cost of blood, sad but true.

Haigen

Omega0 wrote:

Perhaps this devastating loss will motivate you to overcome your fear of the real world and get some more experience battling other hovercrafts. (Sneaking on someone's hovercraft and pulling their jacks does not count as a battle.) Also, when you look at how much more experience all of the other teams in this battle had, it should be obvious that most people do not share your fear of the real world, and therefore you shouldn't stop them from being awakened. But I don't expect you to realize that.

There's nothing to fear in the Real, Omega0. There's nothing to rejoice about either.

NightTrace

Haigen wrote:

There's nothing to fear in the Real, Omega0. There's nothing to rejoice about either.

A rousing game of ring around the burnedouthuskofeverymajorcityintheworld is in order no?

**Omega0**

Haigen wrote:

Omega0 wrote:
Perhaps this devastating loss will motivate you to overcome your fear of the real world and get some more experience battling other hovercrafts. (Sneaking on someone's hovercraft and pulling their jacks does not count as a battle.) Also, when you look at how much more experience all of the other teams in this battle had, it should be obvious that most people do not share your fear of the real world, and therefore you shouldn't stop them from being awakened. But I don't expect you to realize that.

There's nothing to fear in the Real, Omega0. There's nothing to rejoice about either.

There's the truth, however harsh it may be. Many people would rejoice about that. But I guess some people care more about the truth than others.

NightTrace

"Truth" is a subjective word.

Croesis

I believe peace is possible between Zion and the Machines, I believe that a truce is a vehicle for peace. But that vehicle will forever be prevented on reaching it's destination as long as EPN and especially the Cyph organisations still exist.

NightTrace

That depends on what you consider peace. I've come to realize that EPN and many of Zion think of peace as them being the "winners" and being able to force the mechs into something.

On the other side the Mechs think that free humans should do as their told, every time.

Neither side is right, and neither side is willing to work for REAL peace.

Thats the majority mind you.

Croesis

My idea of peace, the one that I've always worked toward is that where Man and Machine can live together with little to no animosity toward each other (I honestly doubt that Mankind can live in complete peace with anyone including themselves, it's possible that the Machines are the same) and work together for mutual benefit, or where Machine and Man leave each other alone and not interfere with each others business. Obviously the first is preferable.

NightTrace

Great idea. I think it sounds familiar.

Now how do you plan on doing that with the current leaderships of BOTH sides and their ever conflicting stances?

Croesis

NightTrace wrote:

Great idea. I think it sounds familiar.

Now how do you plan on doing that with the current leaderships of BOTH sides and their ever conflicting stances?

Well for one thing, try to get them to avoid taking the 'easy' option in getting what they want. The reason why the Machines use the Cyphs is because you enjoy what you do and it's more convenient for the Machines, without you they would be forced to deal with Machinists most of the time which means learning that there is always an option other than brute force. As for Zion, there's not much I can do personally, that will be up to those Zionites who also want peace.

NightTrace

Dealing in generalizations won't get you anywhere, especially when you've mislabeled me by far.

I don't enjoy this, I just am a realist and understand that it is necessary.

There is a very distinct difference.

You however seem to be an optimist, but you vehemently defend the Machines even when they ALSO are not following a set of guidelines that would lead to the goals you say you wish to meet.