Transcendent
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For the record, I have two Vista machines. The good machine is quad-core, blah blah, hardware, and runs MxO pretty much as-is. I occasionally get the shadowed face bug, and if I open my inv or put on the wrong item, I get that blank screen/16-color effect.
I'm sorry to report that as of last night (keep in mind it's Halloween-time when this happened), I experienced the blank screen/16-color problem on the good machine simply by walking too close to another player (presumably wearing one of the "bad" items).
The bad Vista machine...is still bad. But it's bad for EVERY game...Office, IE, and any regular software runs fine, but any and all games will crash to desktop with either no error or "Application Error 1000".
For the bad machine, I am going to still hammer away at the issue, only because I WANT TO KNOW. If I don't become a sooper-geenius after dealing with this stuff, it'll only be because the answer to the problem was occult in nature and I was never introduced into the inner mysteries that would enlighten me to solve it.
Message edited by MXOWinterMute on 11/06/2008 17:31:42.
Enlightened Mind
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Im sorry i didnt trail through all six pages but im not exactly a computer wiz lol, ive started building my own comp and im worried about gettin vista, i was thinking of getting vista 64 bit but i heard that has some major compatability issues, my question is...
Has anyone got this game to work on vista 64 bit or is it the whole OS that is a complete pile of Decaying code ^^ lol
Transcendent
Joined: Dec 4, 2005
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azarazamataz wrote:
Im sorry i didnt trail through all six pages but im not exactly a computer wiz lol, ive started building my own comp and im worried about gettin vista, i was thinking of getting vista 64 bit but i heard that has some major compatability issues, my question is...
Has anyone got this game to work on vista 64 bit or is it the whole OS that is a complete pile of Decaying code ^^ lol
The answer is a poor one:
Some can, some can--but with issues, and some can't at all. Or like me, some get it running beautifully, randomly experience issues that don't stop play....but have no idea how long it'll last before the game suddenly stops or crashes.
I would say, if you're building your own computer:
1) You don't have to have SLi, but you do want a decent video card--in some cases, performance drops with SLi.
2) Quad-core will probably handle things fine
3) Definitely plan on 4GB of RAM if you're using it for gaming
4) Make sure the parts you buy are newer than the release of Vista--better still if they say, "Vista Compatible", "Vista Certified", or (best) "Vista WHQL Compliant"
5) Get used to:
- Disabling Aero (you can configure the game to do this when it launches) if you run Ultimate
- Running all your games "As Administrator" (can also be config'ed in the icon)
- Not using anything above-and-beyond ridiculous, like, say, having DreamScenes (a high-definition animated wallpaper) running with Aero on and expect anything to be stable
- Having some games show up in the Start Menu, and some appear in the "Games" panel...which determines how you can configure their launch
I hope that answer is somewhat helpful.
Message edited by MXOWinterMute on 12/14/2008 07:44:16.
Development
Joined: Dec 2, 2005
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I've finally got a Vista machine, and have been studying the rendering issues in MXO for the past week or so. I'm going to describe the types of problems I've found. If there's another graphic-related problem you're having specifically with MXO on Vista (ie a problem that doesn't occur under XP), this is your chance to let me know about it, and possibly I can get a fix in for it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Things I can't fix (these will take engineering work by smart people):
- typing sounds repeat too many times in the game's launcher
- screenshots taken in full-screen mode with anti-aliasing enabled come out black Current "workaround" is to switch to windowed mode for screenshots.
- illumination of hands and feet is relative to angle of the camera rather than angle of the light source Current "workaround" is to turn off dynamic character lighting and just go with a flat ambient model light, which doesn't look as cool, but on the plus side doesn't make your face come out in shadow while the rest of your body is brightly lit. You can do this by adding the following to your useropts.cfg file:
(I think I copied those from Tsusai ;). On my Vista machine, while running with those settings I noticed that characters would still flicker a bit, possibly when I was mousing over them or something. You can get around that by using "1" instead of "0.33" for the amdadd values; this will make the characters fullbright, which means they'll glow in the dark, but they won't flicker at least.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Things I'm shooting for having fixed in the next update:
(The issues are mostly related to surface properties, possibly involving the game's support for face and body tattoos. I suspect that Vista's flavor of DirectX isn't fond of our game's implementation of decals. The fix for NPC textures flickering, for instance, is probably going to be adding an invisible beard to every single NPC head. Seriously! According to this theory, females got the worst of it, because their body tattoos cover both front and back, and are thus used in combination with more shirt and coat types than males. Small males also had considerable problems, and I think this has something to do with the body tattoo textures wrapping around to places on their model that are not visible.)
(Some of the clothing names I give below may be a bit off, since I'm going by the internal names our old artists used as labels for them in our clothing database. The important thing about them is usually the underlying 3D model they're using, as that determines the order and position in which the game is trying to render the characters' body tattoos.)
- NPC textures flicker, particularly when more than one is visible at a time. This can also cause corresponding flickering in on textures in the environment. The flickering appearance is actually the object's normal texture, tiled very tiny in a repeating pattern.
- Character and/or world textures sometimes appear to flow like water. This is the model's base texture being mistakenly used as a specular (highlight) texture for some reason. I found a few shaders used by our game that Vista didn't like much, which seem to cause most instances of this problem. Fortunately, we have alternate versions that it does like, and which look identical, without rendering issues.
Examples of this issue:
- females wearing a nose ring (facial style 3) get this effect on their torso
- females wearing a Panama Fedora, Cherry Cabbie Hat, Black Beret, Red Eye Beret, and possibly a few others get this effect on their torso
- high level female dire lupines get this effect on their jacket and pants; Furies boss Tisiphone has this problem too (these NPCs have one of those shaders Vista doesn't like on their metal face ornaments--same one that's on the PC nose ring)
There are many other ways to get this problem to show up--combinations of NPCs and player clothing visible simultaneously. I'm pretty sure the fixes I'm getting in will have them taken care of (/crossfingers).
- Small male player RSIs (body type 1) who a) have no coat on, and b) are wearing no shirt, or a short-sleeved shirt, and c) have their inventory panel open, will lose texture detail in the environment, and on their inventory icons, and may experience other effects, such as the "textures like flowing water" issue. (A side effect of the very hacky fix for this will leave a normally invisible gray strip inside the character's...err...middle part, which you'll be able to see when in Sneak).
- Female player RSIs who a) are wearing a long (Area K, Demon Army, etc) or medium (Flared, Smoke Velvet, Avera Open Trenches and Flipcollar Trenches, Milleri Tailcoats), plus b) certain shirt types, or no shirt (only in conjunction with medium coats) and c) have their inventory panel open, will lose texture detail in the environment, and on their inventory icons, and may experience other effects, such as the "textures flowing like water" issue, particularly on their coats. Sneak may make the problem worse in certain parts of the world, blanking out the environment entirely. The shirt types this can happen with are:
Maris Shirt and Vest Combos (only in combination with medium coats; possibly also applies to Corset Long-Sleeved Shirts and Silk Collar Shirts, which use the same model) Tankinis Midriff Blouses Streta Zippered Shirts Blake Corset Shirts Knight Leather V-Neck Tops
A side effect of the fix for this issue will be that body tattoos, which currently can be seen just barely up near the neck with those clothing combinations, will not be visible at all when these shirts and coats are worn together.
- Female player RSIs wearing a Sif Leather Fighting Dress (and possibly Richland Fighting Dresses, and Arasiki Vinyl Dresses, which use the same model) together with long boots (such as the Winter Boots), and have their inventory panel open, will lose texture detail in the environment, and on their inventory icons. Even with the inventory panel closed, the dress will have the "flowing like water" texture problem.
- Male player RSIs wearing Boucher/Winter coats with no shirt, or with a short-sleeved shirt, and who have their inventory panel open, will lose texture detail in the environment, and on their inventory icons, and may have the "flowing like water" problem, particularly on their coats. Wearing long gloves (Steen Combat Gauntlets) will complicate matters. (Steen Combat Gauntlets also cause shirt overlap issues with the Boucher/Winter coats--that is not a Vista-specific issue, but I should have it fixed in the same update.)
- Male and female characters wearing shirt+pant items (these are shirts for females, coats for males) and no hat may have the world blank out entirely when in Sneak in certain areas, such as the elevator in the building behind the Tabor West hardline.
Items with which this occurs include:
Female: Gis and Bathrobes Li Tunic and Pants Sif Leather Fighting Dresses (and possibly Richland Fighting Dresses, and Arasiki Vinyl Dresses, which use the same model) Arasiki Sleeveless Vinyl Dresses Sif Yeoman Leather Dresses and Sif Switchblade Corset Dresses Masseli Moon V-Neck Dresses, Svanhild's Plumage Maselli [sic] Leather Sleeveless Dresses
Male: Gis Machello Prophet Dusters, and Yoshi Triga, Yoshi Asiri, and Yozamaki Trenches Rocawear Burning Eye Trench
A side effect of the fix for this issue will be that women's body tattoos, which currently can be seen just barely up near the neck, will not be visible at all when they are wearing those female outfits.
Fansite Operator
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Good to see some headway with this and certainly look forward to not having as many texture issues. Thanks Rare!
That said, those engineering issues are probably the most annoying ones in generalised play (especially the lack of AA in fullscreen for screenshotters). Can we expect some engineering work to be done at some point in the future (even if its far off) or are they just getting stuck in limbo?
Development
Joined: Dec 2, 2005
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cloudwolf wrote:
Good to see some headway with this and certainly look forward to not having as many texture issues. Thanks Rare!
That said, those engineering issues are probably the most annoying ones in generalised play (especially the lack of AA in fullscreen for screenshotters). Can we expect some engineering work to be done at some point in the future (even if its far off) or are they just getting stuck in limbo?
At the moment it is best described as limbo-esque. The team doesn't have anyone who can do it. It is possible that we could at some point get help from an SOE graphics engineer, or from MS's DirectX team, but those aren't things we can make happen on our own, and there is still no progress on either of them as far as I am aware. Part of the reason I've spent my own time looking into them is so that we will at least have them documented, which will in theory make them easier to present to those who might provide outside assistance.
(I think I copied those from Tsusai . On my Vista machine, while running with those settings I noticed that characters would still flicker a bit, possibly when I was mousing over them or something. You can get around that by using "1" instead of "0.33" for the amdadd values; this will make the characters fullbright, which means they'll glow in the dark, but they won't flicker at least.
My guess on the above is that the face is another model / body art on top of the face (asumed after this glitch I had with bad drivers)
Yes it is my face on top, and what looks like is face 0 or some template on the bottom. (this isn't a vista glitch). This leads me to think the face isn't a ....model..if you consider the body to be one. The modellighting command never affected it really.
In summary of the face issue, the mouse camera light, its angle, the direction the person is facing, and the sun, attribute to what part of the face (which probably isn't a model) is shaded if it makes sense. I kinda figure that this...face art...would have some lighting code that links it to the main body or that the face's luminocity (if that's a word), is dependant upon the underface (like in some photo editors w/ layers, you have the multiply, xor, etc etc etc that affect the top layer). In XP it works, yet in Vista I feel like its being ignored, rendered below the original face, or something...artisticly wrong).
Message edited by LtCmdr_Tsusai on 01/14/2009 18:45:36.
Fansite Operator
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Just realised the problem with the firewall fx wasn't mentioned in the above post, is that still getting looked into or is it fixed as a bi-product of one of the other fixes?
Ascendent Logic
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My Dxdiag:
------------------ System Information ------------------ Time of this report: 1/16/2009, 20:03:39 Machine name: ANUBIAS-PC Operating System: Windows Vista™ Home Premium (6.0, Build 6001) Service Pack 1 (6001.vistasp1_gdr.080917-1612) Language: English (Regional Setting: English) System Manufacturer: DELL Inc. System Model: XPS 730X BIOS: Default System BIOS Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz (8 CPUs), ~2.7GHz Memory: 6134MB RAM Page File: 2070MB used, 10384MB available Windows Dir: C:\Windows DirectX Version: DirectX 10 DX Setup Parameters: Not found DxDiag Version: 6.00.6001.18000 64bit Unicode
------------ DxDiag Notes ------------ Display Tab 1: The file atidxx32,atidxx64.dll,atiumdag,atiumdva,atiumd64.dll,atiumd6a.cap,atitmm64.dll is not digitally signed, which means that it has not been tested by Microsoft's Windows Hardware Quality Labs (WHQL). You may be able to get a WHQL logo'd driver from the hardware manufacturer. Sound Tab 1: No problems found. Sound Tab 2: No problems found. Sound Tab 3: No problems found. Sound Tab 4: No problems found. Sound Tab 5: No problems found. Sound Tab 6: No problems found. Input Tab: No problems found.
. On my Vista machine, while running with those settings I noticed that characters would still flicker a bit, possibly when I was mousing over them or something. You can get around that by using "1" instead of "0.33" for the amdadd values; this will make the characters fullbright, which means they'll glow in the dark, but they won't flicker at least.
