Punch Reversal Catch Slam

**Pylat**

Ballak wrote:

Pylat wrote:
I'm well aware of how timers work for the different classes. The simple fact remains that PRCS is a high level ability. It's Damage is very low for the IS you pay, the big advantage of it is the powerless, which is only 1 round of IL. Granted the bug which means you lose your IS anyway does make it annoying, but that bug is not justification to nerf the ability.

The devs even say that they use an equation to calculate abilities based on various aspects of it compared to the abilities level. Wrist throw has a very high IS cost cause the chance to stun is very good. I'm not saying that the equation is perfect, but it's what the devs work with.

If you find you're completely ruined in IL cause someone can powerless you then you should probably work on your loadout and try find ways to counter PRCS.

Please tell me an efficient way to counter someone while you're getting powerless'd spammed?

Sit on grab/block and wait for them to *CENSORED* all their IS away cause they can't do much damage with it. Failing that change to grab/block every 4th round after you learn the timing to their PRCS.

Zudrag

Pylat wrote:

Ballak wrote:
Pylat wrote:
I'm well aware of how timers work for the different classes. The simple fact remains that PRCS is a high level ability. It's Damage is very low for the IS you pay, the big advantage of it is the powerless, which is only 1 round of IL. Granted the bug which means you lose your IS anyway does make it annoying, but that bug is not justification to nerf the ability.

The devs even say that they use an equation to calculate abilities based on various aspects of it compared to the abilities level. Wrist throw has a very high IS cost cause the chance to stun is very good. I'm not saying that the equation is perfect, but it's what the devs work with.

If you find you're completely ruined in IL cause someone can powerless you then you should probably work on your loadout and try find ways to counter PRCS.

Please tell me an efficient way to counter someone while you're getting powerless'd spammed?
Sit on grab/block and wait for them to *CENSORED* all their IS away cause they can't do much damage with it. Failing that change to grab/block every 4th round after you learn the timing to their PRCS.

So while you sit on block or grab, your opponent has a higher chance to hit you. This is because all Martial Arts special moves have a bonus to their accuracy when used in interlock. So while you're sitting on grab, doing little damage, or block, doing a whopping Zero damage, they have a pretty good chance of hitting you with a few special attacks that do quite a bit of damage (As the majority of people tactic switch). Your IS would probably be full or become full very quickly from such tactics, and thus you would be wasting time sitting on block for the most part.

So both your damage and overall ability to hit is seemingly crippled by concentrating on beating just one move. Does that seem reasonable to you?

**Pylat**

Did I say you sit on grab or block the whole time? No. So stop putting words in my mouth and then arguing against a point I never made.

Actually on grab or block you get a whopping 30%-50% bonus to defense, which is far better than the CT bonus from special moves. Meanwhile your opponent is doing a massive 200-300 damage with PRCS and losing mounds of IS. If they are spamming it they will use it every 4th round. So just change to block every fourth round.

You seem to work under the assumption that it will hit EVERY time they use it, which is untrue. With hacker stats on block I manage to stop about half the PRCS's that come my way.

Zudrag · 06/13/2008 23:37:48

Pylat wrote:

Did I say you sit on grab or block the whole time? No. So stop putting words in my mouth and then arguing against a point I never made.

Actually on grab or block you get a whopping 30%-50% bonus to defense, which is far better than the CT bonus from special moves. Meanwhile your opponent is doing a massive 200-300 damage with PRCS and losing mounds of IS. If they are spamming it they will use it every 4th round. So just change to block every fourth round.

You seem to work under the assumption that it will hit EVERY time they use it, which is untrue. With hacker stats on block I manage to stop about half the PRCS's that come my way.

Did I say you said to sit on grab or block the whole time?

Oh, no. I didn't. Fancy that.

And while a "Whopping" defense bonus as that is, your damage output is again lowered seemingly significantly over that move. You have less of a chance to hit, your opponent would catch on very quickly to your tactic and would just mix up their moves a little bit. So you trade Damage significantly and Accuracy slightly less significantly for a Decent lump of Defense % bonus. Overall, that doesn't seem efficient. Defense theory defeated.

**Pylat**

All you asked if for a way to counter it, I gave you one. If you change to block and they miss their PRCS, Tahdah! You aren't powerless and can resume spamming attacks at one another, not only that but you gained 10 IS and they lost 40. I'm pretty sure you came out better off out of that exchange. What you are demanding now is something completely different, in which you want me to tell you to not only stop it from hitting but also do more damage than it. You cannot have both, the most reliable way to stop it from hitting is to use block, if you spam a move back you are more likely to be hit by it. Even if you are hit while blocking you gain IS and won't lose it from having a move cued up and losing the IS from that. Overall using block is the most effective way to counter PRCS. I never said it was perfect, if you want a perfect counter attack that always works against this move I advise you to stop asking, there is no way to perfectly counter an attack in this game.

Secondly, if the player learns your tactics and starts mixing up their moves it means that they are no longer, by definition, spamming PRCS at you cause they are no longer using it at every available opportunity.

PRCS is overpowered theory has been defeated.

The Leo

Since aikido has generally buffs and effects and low damage I think just lower PRCS as Zippy said. It's a countermeasure for those who use aikido. Maybe increase the reuse timer to 14 seconds so it can't be spammed. Similar ability in the kung fu section is butterfly which also rarely misses and has a chance to confuse (worse than powerless in IL) and in karate wrist throw (which is yet to be balanced), which has a chance to stun. 40 IS for low dps and 100% powerless seems all fair to me (I haven't used that move in over a half year).

**ZippyTheSquirrel** · 06/14/2008 08:09:27

If the move does little to no damage and the powerless state only lasts for the round you used it in, it becomes essentially an annoyance tactic OR a defense tactic should YOU be put on a state as it would prevent the opponent from using a more powerful move that they've been waiting for on you. Just keep the DPS low.

Edit: That being said, how low is low enough, I'm not sure. Preferably around Cheap Shot damage, I might say. And forget what I said about requiring Staggered state. Truthfully I was thinking more about FAR when I wrote that little ditty in. ;O

**Pylat**

PRCS does little more damage than a normal attack, the only reason it seems to do respectable damage is people tactic switch with it.

**Ballak**

The Leo wrote:

Since aikido has generally buffs and effects and low damage I think just lower PRCS as Zippy said. It's a countermeasure for those who use aikido. Maybe increase the reuse timer to 14 seconds so it can't be spammed. Similar ability in the kung fu section is butterfly which also rarely misses and has a chance to confuse (worse than powerless in IL) and in karate wrist throw (which is yet to be balanced), which has a chance to stun. 40 IS for low dps and 100% powerless seems all fair to me (I haven't used that move in over a half year).

They are all rather below average DPS moves, that have a "chance" to do a certain effect. Confuse for Kung Fu, Stun for Karate, but it's a 100% chance with Aikido. You can buff the damage or lower the IS cost or w/e to balance out the fact that I honestly think the chance to powerless is way too high. A 100% guarantee is just silly for a non-state move.

**pyro20**

Ive never had a problem with prcs being spammed, since its damage is only around that of iron guard, so a damage reduction would actually make it pretty pointless, especially since aikido only has 1 other non state ability.

**Marias**

Ballak wrote:

Pylat wrote:
I'm well aware of how timers work for the different classes. The simple fact remains that PRCS is a high level ability. It's Damage is very low for the IS you pay, the big advantage of it is the powerless, which is only 1 round of IL. Granted the bug which means you lose your IS anyway does make it annoying, but that bug is not justification to nerf the ability.

The devs even say that they use an equation to calculate abilities based on various aspects of it compared to the abilities level. Wrist throw has a very high IS cost cause the chance to stun is very good. I'm not saying that the equation is perfect, but it's what the devs work with.

If you find you're completely ruined in IL cause someone can powerless you then you should probably work on your loadout and try find ways to counter PRCS.

Please tell me an efficient way to counter someone while you're getting powerless'd spammed?

Just my two cents: FAR is perfectly fine the way that it is, because the timer for it to activate/low accuracy make it a coin toss in 1v1 fighting. Most of the time it's going to miss, but the person can backpeddle away from it as well.

I've also not experienced any problem getting powerless spammed in MA fights. Most of the time the powerless lasts long enough to just get you out of your rhythm momentarily - and not do any real damage. You're not going to be able to have a person in interlock, powerlessed, perpetually. It also requires a mandatory major in Aikido, which most people don't prefer anyway.

**WoKeN**

This move is an awfully big IS eater for me,spamming it even if successful burns your is quickly .The only times i've seen it used successfully is someone using a mix of it and sitting on grab waiting for off balance to Tomo.

**Ballak**

Marias wrote:

Ballak wrote:
Pylat wrote:
I'm well aware of how timers work for the different classes. The simple fact remains that PRCS is a high level ability. It's Damage is very low for the IS you pay, the big advantage of it is the powerless, which is only 1 round of IL. Granted the bug which means you lose your IS anyway does make it annoying, but that bug is not justification to nerf the ability.

The devs even say that they use an equation to calculate abilities based on various aspects of it compared to the abilities level. Wrist throw has a very high IS cost cause the chance to stun is very good. I'm not saying that the equation is perfect, but it's what the devs work with.

If you find you're completely ruined in IL cause someone can powerless you then you should probably work on your loadout and try find ways to counter PRCS.

Please tell me an efficient way to counter someone while you're getting powerless'd spammed?
Just my two cents: FAR is perfectly fine the way that it is, because the timer for it to activate/low accuracy make it a coin toss in 1v1 fighting. Most of the time it's going to miss, but the person can backpeddle away from it as well.

I've also not experienced any problem getting powerless spammed in MA fights. Most of the time the powerless lasts long enough to just get you out of your rhythm momentarily - and not do any real damage. You're not going to be able to have a person in interlock, powerlessed, perpetually. It also requires a mandatory major in Aikido, which most people don't prefer anyway.

#1 I'm sure you've heard of Mikecool3.

#2 Also, why is it that the other moves that are in the same position on the other branches that have similar effects of powerless/confuse/stun do not hit 100% of the time? Their damage is I believe only minimally better but that's because of the low damage of Aikido, yet high defense.

**Pylat**

Suicidal Butterfly makes you confused, which is worse than powerless and does a significantly higher amount of damage. Same with EFK, that stuns, which is again a worse effect than being powerless and does a huge amount of damage. Wrist throw stuns, and stuns quite often in my experience, though nearly everyone agrees it needs to be tweaked.

**Ballak**

Pylat wrote:

Suicidal Butterfly makes you confused, which is worse than powerless ~~and does a significantly higher amount of damage.~~ Same with EFK, that stuns, which is again a worse effect than being powerless ~~and does a huge amount of damage.~~ ~~Wrist throw stuns, and stuns quite often in my experience, though nearly everyone agrees it needs to be tweaked.~~

How? I thought they all just disabled you from using a special ability the round in which you're basically pacified with one of these states. I think their intentions were different for each state in CR1, but I honestly don't see the big difference between these three states now.