GamiSB wrote:

((He may be your creation but the story isn't and when you plug him into that story you have to play by its rules. He is apart of a world that is not in any way yours. The rules of the Matrix story limits anything your character does and just because you write in your story for him doesn't mean any of that ever happend. Remember reinsertion? Remember how alot of people had it in their stories and used it as proof that people were pluged back in or how they were pluged back in at some point? Then remember how Gray came along and said resertion wasn't real. This created a major contridiction between the players story and the offical story and when the two collide guess which one is left standing. Clothing, faction position, attitude, belifes, these are things that the story and game can support. History, actions in the real, murder outside of the Matrix, these are things it doesnt.

I'm not sudgesting you can't define your characters. I'm saying that you can only do it in ways the story and game allows. The story doesn't support Anti-Cypherite Machinst. The games machanics dont support them. So when your RP and what the story is saying collide on an issue your RP is null and void.))

(( That entire first paragraph was superfluous. I quote myself: 'And nothing he's done has contradicted any part of the story.' I'm well aware of the bounds within which I may define my character. Those bounds extend to anything that isn't contradicted by the story; that includes the Real. The Real may not feature in the game, but anything I say my character did there is valid until it is contradicted by the game, and as long as it doesn't infringe on other people's characters (aka godmodding).

The simple fact here is that your suggestion ('The story doesn't support Anti-Cypherite Machinst. The games machanics dont support them.'" width="15" height="15" /> is pure drivel. How can game mechanics limit a character's thoughts?

I hereby ask for others to add their opinion on this simple matter. Until then, I shall remain silent in this thread. I might laugh a little from time to time. ))

God, I'm so done with this rubbish.  "What makes us different than Cypherites?"

Simple.

It all boils down to convenience.  Before Gray burst their bubble, Cypherites could two craps about bluepills.  They were all about killing redpills just so they could sleep without interference.  The minute Gray destroys that dream they conveniently now want to protect the bluepills.  Frankly, it's just an excuse and idealic non-sense so they feel like they have a purpose again. 

Machinists, on the other hand, work for a different goal, one that has not changed since Day One.  Peace.  We believe that if we work with the Machines we can build up a trust so that they don't instinctively want to kill humans immediately.  That maybe one day we can live in peace with them.  Unlike Cypherites, we're not siding with the Machines to spite you.

In the end, we still believe in the same ideals we've always had.  There are things that we've done with regret that we're not proud of (unlike the boastful Cypherites) but we are compelled to continue our course for the betterment of our race's relationship with the machines.  We do it selflessly, whereas Cypherites only do it for money.

Honestly, the question you should be asking is what separates Cypherites from Merovingians because the only reward machinists are looking for is peace.

((Nothing that contradicted the story!? YOUR CLAIMING TO HAVE KILLED CYPHERITES AS A MACHINST! Then you followed it with a BS statment saying you didnt in the matrix and I remeber asking you why exactly Gray didnt care if you did it in the real but ddi care if it was done in the Matrix. The Cypherites are the Machines allies now. Anything you do to hurt them directly contridicts what the story has been telling us about them. Read what I said again, the game supports your clothing, faction position, attitude, belifes. But it doesn't support your actions or anything else you say happens outside in the real.

You've been hollaring about all the things you have done against the Cypherites not how you feel towards them. Get your story straight before you bother replying))

There are two very obvious differences between Machinists and Cypherites.  The first is that Cypherites advocated killing Zionites in the real while the truce was still on, which no Machinist that I know of agreed with!  The second is that Cypherites seem to have the belief that humans and Machines can't live together in peace (and therefore all humans should stay in their pods), whereas Machinists have been working for this since the truce began. 

The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.  But he may be an ally.

Illyria

God, I'm so done with this rubbish.  "What makes us different than Cypherites?"

Simple.

It all boils down to convenience.  Before Gray burst their bubble, Cypherites could two craps about bluepills.  They were all about killing redpills just so they could sleep without interference.  The minute Gray destroys that dream they conveniently now want to protect the bluepills.  Frankly, it's just an excuse and idealic non-sense so they feel like they have a purpose again. 

Machinists, on the other hand, work for a different goal, one that has not changed since Day One.  Peace.  We believe that if we work with the Machines we can build up a trust so that they don't instinctively want to kill humans immediately.  That maybe one day we can live in peace with them.  Unlike Cypherites, we're not siding with the Machines to spite you.

In the end, we still believe in the same ideals we've always had.  There are things that we've done with regret that we're not proud of (unlike the boastful Cypherites) but we are compelled to continue our course for the betterment of our race's relationship with the machines.  We do it selflessly, whereas Cypherites only do it for money.

Honestly, the question you should be asking is what separates Cypherites from Merovingians because the only reward machinists are looking for is peace.

GamiSB wrote:

from TGS from putting a few in me and the other Zionites while we were trying to kill Veil.

You were easier to aim at than Veil - ditto Colt. Don't go making wild assumptions about me actually liking the Cypherites - you're all the same to me.

GamiSB wrote:

((Nothing that contradicted the story!? YOUR CLAIMING TO HAVE KILLED CYPHERITES AS A MACHINST! Then you followed it with a BS statment saying you didnt in the matrix and I remeber asking you why exactly Gray didnt care if you did it in the real but ddi care if it was done in the Matrix. The Cypherites are the Machines allies now. Anything you do to hurt them directly contridicts what the story has been telling us about them. Read what I said again, the game supports your clothing, faction position, attitude, belifes. But it doesn't support your actions or anything else you say happens outside in the real.

(( *Falls about laughing.*

Temper, temper.

First of all, I'd like you to quote me where I said I'd killed Cypherites in the Real. You seem to have referred to that a few times, but I'm not sure where you got it from. I said my crew was killed by the Masked, well over a year ago. I said Procurator would like to kill Cypherites in the Real, and that stands.

How does that contradict the story? If Procurator were to kill Cypherites, it wouldn't contradict anything. It would have consequences (like Gray firing me, relieving me of my FM-1500, etc), but it wouldn't contradict anything.

I did read what you wrote, which is something you and others seem to neglect when it comes to my posts. But you're wrong. The game doesn't support things happening in the Real, but it doesn't contradict them either. Not until it's actually been written somewhere that a certain thing can't physically happen (like the whole reinsertion business). If what you're suggesting were true, every character in the game would have to follow their stereotype, because that's what's implied by the story. But people define their own characters, expand them into territories not supported by the game. It's called creativity, and it's allowed.

((Then it seems I misunderstood you three pages back when you started bragging about all you had done to hinder the Cypherites. If you havn't done anything then we have no problem, thats fine. Hate them all you like but I was under the impression that you were gloating about actions, not words.

I'm not negateing everything anyone does in the real only showing you where the line is. Someone can RP a Machine ship attacking a Zion ship and it works. Thats allowed and is expected. It can be executed and written without the need for any characters not outside of the players control. But a Machine ship attacking a Cypherite ship is not. Machineist aren't suppose to be attacking Cypherites but instead are working with them in the war. As you said Gray would be all up in their butt about it but we aren't in control of Gray or Agents.

Creativity is allowed but it has to be limited and people need to be aware that there are rules that they need to follow in makeing a character/story. As cool as it may be to be the son of Neo, Neo didn't have a son. As awesome as it is that you can RP a machine and Cypherite dogfight the story says that thats never happend and to make it happen you have to use characters not under your control.

GamiSB wrote:

You've been hollaring about all the things you have done against the Cypherites not how you feel towards them. Get your story straight before you bother replying))

Right from the start of this pathetic argument, I've been speaking about the things Procurator's done (not much when it comes to Cypherites) as well as what he thinks. I'm trying to understand how you came to the conclusion that this wasn't about how Procurator felt towards Cypherites. My story's perfectly straight. Maybe you just need to concentrate a little. ))

Re-read my first post. It can be sumed up with the phrase "actions speak louder then words". I've never given a *CENSORED* this whole time about how Proc thinks, or feels. I've cared about what he's done and is doing. Any action aginst the Cypherites is a contridiction to the fact that Machinst are to be helping them.))

((Gami, your argument works about as well as those who argue against my faction The Daemon Contingency when we say we are neutral. I have three characters named Magiseth (well, Magiseth, Magiseth2, Magiseth3), and guess what? They all work for a different org. Including now in this time of war. Does Magiseth support Cyphs, since he works with the machines? No. Does he support EPN, since they work with his preferred employer, Zion? No. In fact, every time I hear that EPN did something for Zion, I mutter to myself that I wish a Zion op would've gotten credit for that instead of the EPN. Give it up, people in this game CAN be part of an org, and still be against it. Helping it by doing missions in which it requires something done that you don't want to... well, you look at it as info and xp, don't you? Don't tell me that you refuse to do the Mech and Merv arcs because of that thought. Proc, I'm with you on this one.))

((Wrong argument pal. I'm not saying neutrality isn't possible or that you can't be playing all sides of the fence. I'm saying you can't be loyal to one side and be working aginst it. Proc isn't neutral, he's been a Machinst since day one and from what I gather is in full support of the Machine. The problem is that being in full support of the Machine means he supports everything the Machine does which includes inlist the help of Cypherits, a group of people he hates. This is fine, awesome, hate them all you want, hate is a feeling and your allowed that.

But he took it further, apparently he is activley hindering Cypherite operations something that if was true is a direct violation to what Gray has said is allowed. Simple logic at this point tells you that a Machine Captain is going to be told off for this by someone in charge namely Agent Gray. Now since Proc has no control over Gray he can't possibly say that he has been punished for his actions. Thus a problem accures and if the story is played out that Proc has done something aginst the Cypherites he has no offical way of saying that it happend. It's his word against the stories logic, and the stories logic comes out on top.))

c) have the same vocabulary as dog-breath veil? (eg: dear, dearie, man etc)

The same reasons why Mervs speak like the Merv, and Mechs like Agents.

Could someone answer this question? Why, when you turn cyph (no matter how nice you may be) you;
a) gain a huge mothertrucking chip on your shoulder with everyone
b) ./mood cocky like your gods gift to everyone
c) have the same vocabulary as dog-breath veil? (eg: dear, dearie, man etc)

Pretty much what GodGiver said.  It's the easiest way to identify with the role your portraying.  Every one does it, though some more subtle than others. 

"For Zion!"

Sphairo wrote:

Could someone answer this question? Why, when you turn cyph (no matter how nice you may be) you;
a) gain a huge mothertrucking chip on your shoulder with everyone
b) ./mood cocky like your gods gift to everyone
c) have the same vocabulary as dog-breath veil? (eg: dear, dearie, man etc)

Pretty much what GodGiver said.  It's the easiest way to identify with the role your portraying.  Every one does it, though some more subtle than others. 

"For Zion!"

Message edited by GoDGiVeR on 11/04/2007 06:57:07.

---