To recap, Machinists believe that it's okay for human beings to live out their entire lives immersed in a bath of liquified human remains being fed a steady diet of electromagnetic lies by an artificial intelligence.  I and many others, on the other hand, believe that this is ghoulish and perverse, and that we can do better than settling for merely being the host for a parasitic race of Machines . . . even if we have to make our way in a world that has been destroyed by people fighting an ancient war we had nothing to do with.

We don't say it's ok.  We accept that it's necessary for the survival of our species, in this world that can no longer support us all.  We don't say that the humans of today deserve to be punished because of what our ancestors did...but we do acknowledge that our current situation is a result of the actions of our ancestors, and that this situation is unlikely to change until the real world can support us (all of us, not just the tiny portion of humanity that's taken or is ready to take the red pill). 

I'm tired of all the whining about how we don't deserve this.  Of *course* people don't deserve to be punished for something that was done centuries before they were born!  But people do have to live with the consequences of those earlier actions...and those actions of our ancestors blackened the sky and destroyed the ecosystem.  This is the situation we have to live with.  So until someone comes up with a way to unscorch the sky, humanity is going to stay right where it is.

If all you focus on is your own self pity and anger, you will never be able to do anything constructive about that situation -- you will never be able to help make things better, for yourself or for the rest of humanity.  Instead of wasting your energy like this, why not work towards clearing the sky?

Illyria 

As for what the Machines and Machinists don't like, I don't think the majority of us give a sh!t. We don't like it when the Machine comes to fugg our home up, but it still happens.

Pyraci wrote:

As for what the Machines and Machinists don't like, I don't think the majority of us give a sh!t. We don't like it when the Machine comes to fugg our home up, but it still happens.

Then the best option would be to be cool, and behave. I know not all zionists are rageing lunatics like Anome, however the possibility is a great one. Since the truce began the machines havent done anything to harm or make the humans think they would harm them. Then came the command center beneath the powerlines. You got what you deserved.

imax wrote:

Pyraci wrote:

As for what the Machines and Machinists don't like, I don't think the majority of us give a sh!t. We don't like it when the Machine comes to fugg our home up, but it still happens.

Then the best option would be to be cool, and behave. I know not all zionists are rageing lunatics like Anome, however the possibility is a great one. Since the truce began the machines havent done anything to harm or make the humans think they would harm them. Then came the command center beneath the powerlines. You got what you deserved.

Therein lies the problem. The Machine has and is still doing and allowing things to harm people in the name of purpose, efficiency, and self-preservation. Tell someone else to "be cool and behave." Obedience isn't peace, it's submission. Submission and peace are not the same, even if both calm the fighting down for a time. I think it's a waste of breath to tell us to get out and be obedient, while you've got a guy in your system that isn't interested in obedience to the Machine, and shows that he doesn't need to answer to anyone. Machines can't control him or stop him, nor can Machinists, and he's more interested in the idea of people being freed than submission. You're getting what YOU deserve.

Obedience in this case is simply cooperation. The machines obeyed the truce, Zion and EPN did not. The machines only wanted you to do what they were doing.... submitting to the truce, not to them. But that time is now over since Zion repeadetly has shown no intrest in cooperation.

I think were going in circles again.

I think it's obvious at this point that you two are just arguing for the sake of arguing.  You're getting absolutely nothing accomplished, save for wasted breath. (Good read though!)

As far as the Intruder is concerned, Ez, don't assume he's on your side just because he's not too compliant with the Machines.  This may turn out to be a problem for both sides. 

Lastly, as far as what we all deserve...may there be mercy on us all.

I think it's obvious at this point that you two are just arguing for the sake of arguing.  You're getting absolutely nothing accomplished, save for wasted breath. (Good read though!)

As far as the Intruder is concerned, Ez, don't assume he's on your side just because he's not too compliant with the Machines.  This may turn out to be a problem for both sides. 

Lastly, as far as what we all deserve...may there be mercy on us all.

That may be so but you implied that he's deservedly our problem.  I merely stated that he may be both our problem. 

Debate the war and whose right/wrong all you want.  It's wasted breath.  Obviously if we could agree, we wouldn't be on opposing sides of the fence.  Right? 

You're preaching to the choir now, Ez. 

((OMG, Go get laid or something, Ez!! ))

Garu is not my friend...... 

jk <3 garu

but to clear things up hear, I did not start the argument on whos wrong and whos not. This did...

Pyraci wrote:

cov wrote:

Illyria22 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

But Pyraci's got the idea right - the Accelerated Man's got an iron resolve and he's not about t kowtow to anybody. If he's got questions, he's going to be here until he gets answers.

And I'm going to do what I can to help him. Seems like Zion and EPN are of the same mind, too.

I'm sure it's as obvious to the Intruder as it is to everyone else that Zion and EPN just want to use him as a weapon against the Machines...just like Zion wanted to use the General as a weapon against whoever they thought was their enemy that week.  I'm sure this will work out just as well for Zion.

 

 

Illyria

It's not surprising that the Machines' apologists try to diminish the potential tactical significance of the Intruder, even as those same apologists are kept completely out of the loop by the Machines. I'm sure that this blind faith in the Machines' mercy/beneficence/victimhood (or however Machinists justify their allegiance this week) will work out just super.

In any event, I suspect the Intruder is not likely to allow itself to be "used" by anyone, as a weapon or otherwise.  At the same time, anything that can level a pack of Agents with a snap of its fingers is something I'd like to get to know a little better.

Exactly, and while we're on the subject, the Machine and it's Machinists use their resources and assets to their advantage with disturbing tenacity. I think it's a little hypocritical to try to call Zion or EPN out as using anyone or anything as a weapon when the other side of the fence does it without remorse.

 Honestly, Machinists, just calm down, take a break, get some coffee. Seriously you will never convince Zionites/Neonites that you are right at all, because your beliefs are not agreeable to us and never will be.

 My Fellow Zionites and Neonites, there really is no point in arguing with the Machinists, they are convinced of their Beliefs, But we are as well, hence why we clash. Do Not Let the Cypherites discourage you, their efforts are wasted because they are trying to prevent the inevitable, we will contact the Intruder. Besides the Intruder must be understood, for one must study the enemy and know his objectives, if he is to be defeated, assuming hs's our enemy.

 

 Honestly, Machinists, just calm down, take a break, get some coffee. Seriously you will never convince Zionites/Neonites that you are right at all, because your beliefs are not agreeable to us and never will be.