Nerf Master Shadow

**nubious81**

Now im probally the one of the few that think MS is probally the one thing that needs to be nerf in the game baiscly you have the upper hand in the game when you got this once you have loaded MS your basicly unvulnabarale for how ever long the time is then once the timer is up you can jump and reput it back on in i think its about 30 seconds now im suguesting is some tool where we could have a greater chance to break ms or make the timer much bigger something like in the terms of mobius code what are your thoughts about this?

**Grave**

lol most just use MS as they cant fight to start with or to upset the reds at mara c

**eval**

I'd like it if the reuse timer (30 seconds) and the actual time Master Shadow is active for (180 seconds) are swapped. It should be for a quick escape, not to stand around making ape noises. Maybe even have the Master Shadow buff while active also keep/make the Master Shadow in combat stance.

Also Vanish doesn't need a thirty minute reuse timer.

**nubious81**

Grave wrote:

lol most just use MS as they cant fight to start with or to upset the reds at mara c

I agree thats why i think it needs to be nerf there really isnt a point to use it besides for that reason.

**nubious81**

eval wrote:

I'd like it if the reuse timer (30 seconds) and the actual time Master Shadow is active for (180 seconds) are swapped. It should be for a quick escape, not to stand around making ape noises. Maybe even have the Master Shadow buff while active also keep/make the Master Shadow in combat stance.

Also Vanish doesn't need a thirty minute reuse timer.

Yeah heck even have a 30 min timer for ms instead of Vanish.

**CraftyZee**

lol it needs sorting out...

CZ
(:

**Brommerz77**

nubious81 wrote:

Now im probally the one of the few that think MS is probally the one thing that needs to be nerf in the game baiscly you have the upper hand in the game when you got this once you have loaded MS your basicly unvulnabarale for how ever long the time is then once the timer is up you can jump and reput it back on in i think its about 30 seconds now im suguesting is some tool where we could have a greater chance to break ms or make the timer much bigger something like in the terms of mobius code what are your thoughts about this?

If you put a timer on master shadow that was equivalent to Mobius code, you would destroy Master Shadow. There would be very little point to using it. In all honesty, I rarely see people using it on Vector, and when I do, it's usually the same people, so it comes as no surprise to me. Even I whip it out once in a while when pvp gets to a situation where it's relatively silly to keep trying. Like for example... not flaming here... but tonight, there were about 7 FA in area, and one was a Trauma surgeon. And considering im on my own, it's a pretty impossible situation. That's when master shadow has a use, at least you can sit there for a few minutes at a time and converse.

It's not overpowered, it's not a threat.

**monkeymanx8**

eval wrote:

Also Vanish doesn't need a thirty minute reuse timer.

No kidding, that's ridiculous.

Croesis

eval wrote:

It should be for a quick escape, not to stand around making ape noises.

QFT. Master Shadow, to me anyway, along with MKT to a lesser degree is all about the sneak, the big initial damage and the escape.

**Procurator**

Leave Master Shadow alone. A person using Master Shadow can't do anything but observe, and it's nice to be able to do that sometimes. Heck, it's even fragile as hell - it breaks when you so much as open a door.

As for standing at the sidelines making ape noises or whatever, that's hardly Master Shadow's fault, is it? Report the offender if you're that annoyed.

**GoDGiVeR**

monkeymanx8 wrote:

eval wrote:
Also Vanish doesn't need a thirty minute reuse timer.
No kidding, that's ridiculous.

Another few points that needs fixing:

* Vanish breaks easily (you stay invisible inside IL)
* Vanish reuse needs to be reduced to from 1800 (30 minutes) to 600 (10 minutes) or even less
* Smoke Bomb cost is a tad too high (120), reduce it to 80 - 100 (A Combo of Smoke Bomb and Frankensteiner costs 200 IS, that's nearly ALL of your IS, that is ridiculous)
* Invisibility is already limited in time (30-40 secs) but it also uses 50 IS to activate, even if it fails (folks are too close), reduce that to 30 IS
* I don't understand the 80 IS cost of Frankensteiner (164), while it's still a few damage points less than Punt (170), but takes 80 IS (Punt takes 40) and doesn't have IL accuracy (Punt has 80!!!!). Frankensteiner is even a lvl 46 ability while Punt is only level 36. I can't understand in the slightest how the system the devs use to judge an ability can misjudge an ability THAT much. Reduce IS cost to 30 and add an IL acc of 10-20, that should take care of the gross unbalance of two "equal" abilities.

And while I'm already at "using the system to judge an ability", I don't understand either, why Surplex as a lvl 27 ability (comparison: Topsy Turvey lvl 25) does 120 damage (TT 37) and has 3 states (daze, stagger, off-balance) for *censored* 15 seconds (TT Confuse for 10 secs) and has an IS cost of mere 50 (TT 60 IS, plus it has +40 IL acc boost, but considering that any sneak attack goes automatically against Throw def and we all know Throw def is quasi non-existant due to lack of throw def %, the +40 acc doesn't seem all too useful). Considering this, the gross unbalance of Frankensteiner seems even more ridiculous.

**GoDGiVeR**

Procurator wrote:

Leave Master Shadow alone. A person using Master Shadow can't do anything but observe, and it's nice to be able to do that sometimes. Heck, it's even fragile as hell - it breaks when you so much as open a door.

What disturbs me is that it doesn't break when using the ABILITY HYPERJUMP. I asked 9mm and he said it was by design. BAH! MS breaks when using abilities or ANYthing else for that matter, why not with HJ too?

Croesis · 09/08/2008 02:47:33

Procurator wrote:

Leave Master Shadow alone. A person using Master Shadow can't do anything but observe, and it's nice to be able to do that sometimes. Heck, it's even fragile as hell - it breaks when you so much as open a door.
As for standing at the sidelines making ape noises or whatever, that's hardly Master Shadow's fault, is it? Report the offender if you're that annoyed.

The way I see it Master Shadow is a spy. Fine, if he is spying he shouldn't be seen, certainly not standing around where everyone can see him but not able to touch him for 3 minutes. Make the ability so that you are invisible with a very low chance for detection by others and when detected you're still in shadow mode with high defences and your evade is high but can be broken eventually.

Allow them to open doors, but the whole thing should break when using an ability in view of others.

Thats just my opinion of course, I guess I have old fasioned ideas of spies.

**Marias**

Procurator wrote:

Leave Master Shadow alone. A person using Master Shadow can't do anything but observe, and it's nice to be able to do that sometimes. Heck, it's even fragile as hell - it breaks when you so much as open a door.
As for standing at the sidelines making ape noises or whatever, that's hardly Master Shadow's fault, is it? Report the offender if you're that annoyed.

I beg to differ. Master Shadow is a very useful class if used as intended, even with half of the tree being broken.

**Procurator**

Oh, I'm not saying anything about the tree; I don't use most of its abilities. Just the Master Shadow ability itself. It gets a lot of undeserved stick.