Vinia wrote:
There is no encouragement to level up at 50 because you can't go past 50, so there is no need for encouragement there, simple as. Also I'm not advocating the level cap placed on missions and did not say it should be boosted. I was only stating the two reasons I could see for having the caps in place. In fact I've disagreed with the cap as soon as we found out there was one.Also as long as the story continues, the game does not end at lvl 50. If you don't follow it at 50 because you don't want to, can't be arsed to get the rep or don't like the current story itself, thats your own problem. Before the usual 'one day worth of missions and farming for the new items, then 6 weeks of nothing but one meeting and a party woohoo' starts, I still believe that LE's will occur, as only their regularity has been scrapped. I believe that allowing Rarebit to settle into the new way of doing things will bear this out.
There is no encouragement to level up at 50 because you can't go past 50, so there is no need for encouragement there, simple as. Also I'm not advocating the level cap placed on missions and did not say it should be boosted. I was only stating the two reasons I could see for having the caps in place. In fact I've disagreed with the cap as soon as we found out there was one.
Also as long as the story continues, the game does not end at lvl 50. If you don't follow it at 50 because you don't want to, can't be arsed to get the rep or don't like the current story itself, thats your own problem. Before the usual 'one day worth of missions and farming for the new items, then 6 weeks of nothing but one meeting and a party woohoo' starts, I still believe that LE's will occur, as only their regularity has been scrapped. I believe that allowing Rarebit to settle into the new way of doing things will bear this out.
I know, and I think we're in total agreement. I was just expanding on my side of the issue a bit further.
Criingey wrote:
Vinia wrote:Also as long as the story continues, the game does not end at lvl 50. If you don't follow it at 50 because you don't want to or don't like the current story itself, thats your own problem.I disagree. There should be more to this game than just a storyline. Personally i lost interest in the story long ago when it became less matrixy to me. Granted thats my issue with how i feel about it but that doesnt hide the fact that unless you want to collect items, old or new or pvp there is nothing to do in this game other than chat to folk, dance or whatever. Granted i could always look for RP but seeing as that has apparently croaked it... well its pointless. How many people do you see standing around hardlines... doing nothing? I think that paints quite an appropriate picture.
Also as long as the story continues, the game does not end at lvl 50. If you don't follow it at 50 because you don't want to or don't like the current story itself, thats your own problem.
I disagree. There should be more to this game than just a storyline. Personally i lost interest in the story long ago when it became less matrixy to me. Granted thats my issue with how i feel about it but that doesnt hide the fact that unless you want to collect items, old or new or pvp there is nothing to do in this game other than chat to folk, dance or whatever. Granted i could always look for RP but seeing as that has apparently croaked it... well its pointless. How many people do you see standing around hardlines... doing nothing? I think that paints quite an appropriate picture.
So Criinge, what would you like to see introduced into this game that was made a fair time ago and has a very limited Dev staff and a stroppy database? It's fair to say that the core gameplay aspects of MxO from the very start is the fighting, story and social interactions with a few extras like datamining and coding added in. What other game introduces different core gameplay aspects at the end of the story and when people get bored of other methods? What makes MxO different to other MMOs when you reach the highest levels?
In all honesty Vins im done with this. There is absolutely no inspiration for me to play anymore and hasnt been for some time. In my less than expert opinion this game is dead. It wouldnt matter what was added. It would only provide a tempory fix im sure. Once the initial rush of the new content has passed then its back to the same old same.
There is only one thing that could save this game imo... more people playing. That would change everything.
Woah, ladies. Let's not get so argumentative, okay? One thing that will absolutely NOT improve the quality of the game is calling it dead, though Criinge is right; the biggest fix we need is more players. But that requires that SOE get the word out. MxO could be the best MMO on the market if it got the recognition and publicity that many lesser MMOs got.
M45T3RM1ND wrote:
Oh dont missunderstand me here. Im not arguing.. just stating my point of view and feelings on the issue.
Me and Vins are cool
Yeah, no intention of hostility here, Criinge and I are just very vocal!
It's a personal thing, everyone is different. I got bored with GW after completing the story there as everything was the same. Even with the expansion, play the story a few times, got bored uninstalled.
Here, I like the continuing story, that along with my friends and the genre etc.. is what keeps me here and keeps me playing past the 50 mark.
Greetings from the other end of the spectrum!
I have absolutely no issues with the level/rep requirements for the missions. I like the idea and understand the reasoning. However, I have no objection to changing it. I think its paramount that the story be available to everyone but the rewards, not so much. Perhaps the simplest solution would be to:
* If team level + 1 > NPC level, then no override bit. If team level + 1 < NPC level, then chance for override bit (i.e. sleepwalker/kunoichi loot types)
In this last batch of missions, the NPCs were 51 with a couple 53 and 55 (depending on the org mission) so <INSERT COMPLEX MATHEMATICAL EQUATIONS/EXPLANATIONS> and you have it established in a manner that keeps higher level players from easily acquiring items that should be challenging to all players to receive.
Everyone can then still participate in the story but there's still an element of challenge to getting the rewards.
SIDENOTE: 3 years and only 41?!! /tsktsk
Didn't we just have this conversation?
What do people have against getting together with other players to run a mission? That's the purpose behind this change; bringing the players together. Besides, it's not like you can defeat the mission boss (Wright) alone anyway.
No offense meant, but I'm not too broken up over those people who say they are leaving because of a level cap on new missions. If you can leave the game for that small a reason, you're probably not into it that much, anyway.
ShiXinFeng wrote:
Didn't we just have this conversation?What do people have against getting together with other players to run a mission? That's the purpose behind this change; bringing the players together. Besides, it's not like you can defeat the mission boss (Wright) alone anyway.No offense meant, but I'm not too broken up over those people who say they are leaving because of a level cap on new missions. If you can leave the game for that small a reason, you're probably not into it that much, anyway.
Or you're into it enough to think that your monthly sub matters to MxO's bottom line.
Yeah what happened to the other thread?
The last conversation devolved into a dev bash unfortunately so Virrago locked it. But, I think that's a false premise you bring up, "bringing the players together." One, its not like we have the subscriber base of WoW. Secondly, and more importantly, there already is plenty of teamwork required content already. Try and solo Wright (btw not the mission boss but the top secondary boss required to aquire the top gear, which is exactly as it should be). Or try and solo a Grandmaster token or a Kunoichi doll. Those things are already in place. Again, exactly as it should be.
I think you're conflating group farm requirements with simple storyline access requirements. Arguments were made in the other thread, like " find another org player to tag along with" or "just read DN1, noob!" And the answer to that is, you lose the personal experience of experiencing the ongoing storyline first hand. Which may not mean much to some but definitely means a lot to many of us. Especially since many of us are here precisely because this is supposedly a dynamic storyline-based game, which makes it so unique.
The least viable argument in that other thread is, "lol freeloading nub, ur too lazy to lvl" which is not an argument, just an ad hominum...in fact its very condescending. It would probably be valid in a massively multiplayer game. We don't have that luxury unfortunately.
And lastly no one is losing anything by maintaining rep requirements, instancing them in high level areas, and maintaining level requirements in order to farm the gear from the secondary spawns. At least I can't think of one. It just seems arbitrary and counterproductive.
villemar = freeloader
I only know of two reasons for the level cap. The first is the level of the NPCs in the area. However I feel that if a player wants to run the gauntlet of those NPC's, and lets face it you can HJ at lvl 10, I think they should be able to try (may even make the missions more challnging).The second is encouragement to level up. I say this not from the view of powerlevelling to be the most effective in pvp but if we get more 'world bosses' like Wright, which rounds off that pile of missions, then generally the people going to beat that are lvl 50's or thereabouts. Obviously lower levels can witness the final fight but it's no substitute for fighting it yourself, thus the encouragement to level.
I only know of two reasons for the level cap. The first is the level of the NPCs in the area. However I feel that if a player wants to run the gauntlet of those NPC's, and lets face it you can HJ at lvl 10, I think they should be able to try (may even make the missions more challnging).
The second is encouragement to level up. I say this not from the view of powerlevelling to be the most effective in pvp but if we get more 'world bosses' like Wright, which rounds off that pile of missions, then generally the people going to beat that are lvl 50's or thereabouts. Obviously lower levels can witness the final fight but it's no substitute for fighting it yourself, thus the encouragement to level.
Run the guantlet! Another apt phrase. Heh I even liked those few critical missions where you have to flee a lvl 255 agent. It does make it exciting and mixes it up a bit. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen
On your second point, here is where I think we're getting very mixed signals. On one level, the push is there to powergrind, with no access to current storyline before lvl 30. And even when you get to lvl 30 you still only get access to 1/3rd of the current storyline. And "go run archive missions, kthxbai" is not really valid.
This move would seem to indicate to me that any pretense of trying to get new players into MxO is totally gone. But secondary to that, and where it affects us regular players, is the "stop and smell the roses" effect. for example I got Villemar to 50 moderately quickly on Vector after launch. But, after that, I wanted to more fully access content that I may have missed during my main's rush to 50. I spent time farming constructs, running neighborhood missions, visiting uinderground exile strongholds (whatever you call them...lol I'm drawing a blank), etc. Since I had no idea that eventually you'd need the org trifecta, I kept this alt in my same org. It worked out quite well, in fact my alt hit 35 just as th new One Zero content was added, so that was perfect! So I had that going on and went for the server trifecta on top of that over the years to better access my org's live events across the three servers, etc., which has become moot now.
On the other hand, it does seem like focus is being also drawn to lowbie content, with the addition of the Chessman mission etc. In fact I think the best part of the update was not only the addition of the initial neighborhood content but also the gang RSI drops (since it gives you reason to get re-aquainted with the neighborhood gangs, especially those that don't drop acess keys so you'd previously have no reason to seek them out). We're getting into immersion here, the "stop and smell the roses" thing that I always enjoy and appreciate. So, is the plan just powergrind to 50? Or immerse and take your time? The only way the latter would work while maintaining critical mission lvl requirements is to quite literally have a Uriah/Tabor setup in every single neighborhood up to and including Downtown. That would be pretty cool but it doesn't seem very practical!
Fatmop wrote:
Lol wheres my Pink Gi and my patchers gear? Gimme! Also, farm me 1,000,000 robot parts from 01 for each non-50 character. And teach me sploitz! I want a free ride!
Villemar_MxO wrote:
The last conversation devolved into a dev bash unfortunately so Virrago locked it. But, I think that's a false premise you bring up, "bringing the players together." One, its not like we have the subscriber base of WoW. Secondly, and more importantly, there already is plenty of teamwork required content already. Try and solo Wright (btw not the mission boss but the top secondary boss required to aquire the top gear, which is exactly as it should be). Or try and solo a Grandmaster token or a Kunoichi doll. Those things are already in place. Again, exactly as it should be.I think you're conflating group farm requirements with simple storyline access requirements. Arguments were made in the other thread, like " find another org player to tag along with" or "just read DN1, noob!" And the answer to that is, you lose the personal experience of experiencing the ongoing storyline first hand. Which may not mean much to some but definitely means a lot to many of us. Especially since many of us are here precisely because this is supposedly a dynamic storyline-based game, which makes it so unique.The least viable argument in that other thread is, "lol freeloading nub, ur too lazy to lvl" which is not an argument, just an ad hominum...in fact its very condescending. It would probably be valid in a massively multiplayer game. We don't have that luxury unfortunately.And lastly no one is losing anything by maintaining rep requirements, instancing them in high level areas, and maintaining level requirements in order to farm the gear from the secondary spawns. At least I can't think of one. It just seems arbitrary and counterproductive.
Okay, stop with the pseudo-intellectual argument classifications. We aren't in debate class, here, and you don't have to be so *censored* about everyone's arguments. This kind of oblique insulting is what causes threads to decend into flaming. It's just a conversation.
The new mission-quests are already a compromise between solo and party playability. They don't need to be changed due to a small, albeit outspoken, group of players who only want to solo everything.
Plus, are you saying the Wright boss has nothing to do with 11.3 mission-quest, other than to provide a loot-drop for in-game items? 'Cause I was pretty sure that she was placed there in conjunction with the mission.
Finally, I guess I am arguing against this for two reasons: one being the fact that so many things about this game have been changed over the years due to a small, vocal minority, and the second being that for four years, this game has been nothing but missions that are soloable. Even though every single movie showed "crews" of people working together, for years the only content in this game that wasn't soloable was the upper levels of the Pandora's Box quest. In my opinion, this is the latest in a series of recent changes that attempt to bring the game back to some semblance of the movie experience.
Besides, this is far from the first game to make story content available to only high-level players.
ADD: Man, I am really tired of the G-rated forums.
Villemar_MxO wrote:The last conversation devolved into a dev bash unfortunately so Virrago locked it. But, I think that's a false premise you bring up, "bringing the players together." One, its not like we have the subscriber base of WoW. Secondly, and more importantly, there already is plenty of teamwork required content already. Try and solo Wright (btw not the mission boss but the top secondary boss required to aquire the top gear, which is exactly as it should be). Or try and solo a Grandmaster token or a Kunoichi doll. Those things are already in place. Again, exactly as it should be.I think you're conflating group farm requirements with simple storyline access requirements. Arguments were made in the other thread, like " find another org player to tag along with" or "just read DN1, noob!" And the answer to that is, you lose the personal experience of experiencing the ongoing storyline first hand. Which may not mean much to some but definitely means a lot to many of us. Especially since many of us are here precisely because this is supposedly a dynamic storyline-based game, which makes it so unique.The least viable argument in that other thread is, "lol freeloading nub, ur too lazy to lvl" which is not an argument, just an ad hominum...in fact its very condescending. It would probably be valid in a massively multiplayer game. We don't have that luxury unfortunately.And lastly no one is losing anything by maintaining rep requirements, instancing them in high level areas, and maintaining level requirements in order to farm the gear from the secondary spawns. At least I can't think of one. It just seems arbitrary and counterproductive.Okay, stop with the pseudo-intellectual argument classifications. We aren't in debate class, here, and you don't have to be so *censored* about everyone's arguments. This kind of oblique insulting is what causes threads to decend into flaming. It's just a conversation.The new mission-quests are already a compromise between solo and party playability. They don't need to be changed due to a small, albeit outspoken, group of players who only want to solo everything.Plus, are you saying the Wright boss has nothing to do with 11.3 mission-quest, other than to provide a loot-drop for in-game items? 'Cause I was pretty sure that she was placed there in conjunction with the mission.Finally, I guess I am arguing against this for two reasons: one being the fact that so many things about this game have been changed over the years due to a small, vocal minority, and the second being that for four years, this game has been nothing but missions that are soloable. Even though every single movie showed "crews" of people working together, for years the only content in this game that wasn't soloable was the upper levels of the Pandora's Box quest. In my opinion, this is the latest in a series of recent changes that attempt to bring the game back to some semblance of the movie experience.Besides, this is far from the first game to make story content available to only high-level players. ADD: Man, I am really tired of the G-rated forums.
All I am saying is, if you made the slight modification, who exactly does it hurt? What's the specific argument against it?
And, in general, with any other generic MMO* you'd be 100% right and 0% wrong. I still say this game has a unique appeal. I cant speak for others but that's the reason I've been here all this time. Maybe everyone wants this game to just be WoW but set in a modern setting and with 0.00000001% of their player base, I don't think that's the case, but I'll let others judge that.
And again, no one wants to solo anything, we just want to access the current storyline provided we put the work in and got our rep in with those orgs in the first place. Not to mention being willing to brave wherever the missions take us, even if it is in Stratford Campus, Creston or wherever.
(*Highlight on Massively)
