Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

**Archangel**

I'm going to post this here in General Discussion because it is actually a discussion, and while it is about player events, it isn't an event link so I don't feel that it belongs in the Player Events section of the forums. I see that area as a listing of events and discussion about specific events.

But this idea came from a discussion with Procurator in Broadcast Depth. And something I've been noticing more and more recently is how notoriously difficult it is to get people involved in player events and as someone who enjoys being creative and telling stories, I find it really frustrating. So what I would like to know is, what is it about player events that makes you not want to participate? And is there anything that future event planners can do to fix the problem(s) and get you interested?

Now, I'm not really talking about tourneys or parties, etc. Those have a built-in audience. People will almost always come to them, assuming it isn't a really off-the-wall time.

Why is it that something can be of interest to us when we don't know it's status with regard to being official, but as soon as Rarebit browses the forums and pops out and says, "Oh, this isn't us" you suddenly say forget it? Which, by the way, I think is a really bad idea because while I understand that Rarebit might not want people to get confused with what's MxO canon and what isn't, it also discourages community event participation when he does things like that because player events tend to have to rely heavily on people not knowing if it's official or not. Why do we have to overanalyze things to the point where we absolutely MUST know if such and such character is LESIG or not instead of just having fun and appreciating that there are creative people in the community trying to make our experience better.

Why can't we just enjoy it, so long as the concept of the event isn't completely out there and unbelievable with regards to the game world?

**Procurator**

My most recent reply on the 'Keep your eyes open' thread:

Archangel wrote:

((And I can understand that. If a LE and a PE are happening at the same time, LE should get the priority. But what about instances where there are no LESIG people jacked in, or no LE's going on and somebody's hosting a particularly intriguing event. Do you just write it off in that situation simply because it isn't Rarebit/LESIG or do you entertain the possibility of checking it out?))

(( Ah, no, that's not what I meant. When I say that the story has to take priority over player RP, I mean the RP itself; the stories, not the events.

The reinsertion issue is a good example. People RP'd that they'd been reinserted, or that reinsertion was possible. Then the story came along and said no, it wasn't possible. The story's word is final, as it were, so the people who'd RP'd about reinsertion had to either scrap their stories or come up with ways around the problem.

So whatever A:B is up to, it has less importance/significance/relevance than the story. In a lot of cases player RP is more creative or interesting or loyal to the films (sorry Rare), so it's a shame that this is the case, but it is. Some level of canonicity must be maintained. ))

**Archangel**

Procurator wrote:

My most recent reply on the 'Keep your eyes open' thread:

Archangel wrote:
((And I can understand that. If a LE and a PE are happening at the same time, LE should get the priority. But what about instances where there are no LESIG people jacked in, or no LE's going on and somebody's hosting a particularly intriguing event. Do you just write it off in that situation simply because it isn't Rarebit/LESIG or do you entertain the possibility of checking it out?))
(( Ah, no, that's not what I meant. When I say that the story has to take priority over player RP, I mean the RP itself; the stories, not the events.

The reinsertion issue is a good example. People RP'd that they'd been reinserted, or that reinsertion was possible. Then the story came along and said no, it wasn't possible. The story's word is final, as it were, so the people who'd RP'd about reinsertion had to either scrap their stories or come up with ways around the problem.

So whatever A:B is up to, it has less importance/significance/relevance than the story. In a lot of cases player RP is more creative or interesting or loyal to the films (sorry Rare), so it's a shame that this is the case, but it is. Some level of canonicity must be maintained. ))

If that's the case there's not much point in RPing period, as Rarebit can always come out and say whatever that invalidates a number of things. The key is how the players handle it. I once RP'd a forced reinsertion, but when that news came out, I turned it into an angle of, "If I wasn't reinserted...what really happened to me and how did I get back?" sort of thing that was never resolved.

**Yasamuu** · 03/10/2008 07:00:35

Archangel wrote:

Procurator wrote:
My most recent reply on the 'Keep your eyes open' thread:

Archangel wrote:
((And I can understand that. If a LE and a PE are happening at the same time, LE should get the priority. But what about instances where there are no LESIG people jacked in, or no LE's going on and somebody's hosting a particularly intriguing event. Do you just write it off in that situation simply because it isn't Rarebit/LESIG or do you entertain the possibility of checking it out?))
(( Ah, no, that's not what I meant. When I say that the story has to take priority over player RP, I mean the RP itself; the stories, not the events.

The reinsertion issue is a good example. People RP'd that they'd been reinserted, or that reinsertion was possible. Then the story came along and said no, it wasn't possible. The story's word is final, as it were, so the people who'd RP'd about reinsertion had to either scrap their stories or come up with ways around the problem.

So whatever A:B is up to, it has less importance/significance/relevance than the story. In a lot of cases player RP is more creative or interesting or loyal to the films (sorry Rare), so it's a shame that this is the case, but it is. Some level of canonicity must be maintained. ))
If that's the case there's not much point in RPing period

To be honest, I think that this is actually something a lot of people have come to ask themselves. Because, at the end of the day, the only way to truely contribute to your org is to help an LO/take part in a LESIG event or take part in a Live Event. Sitting at Camon or Tabor or wherever, and talking doesn't really contribute anything in the grandscheme of things and thats a fairly big problem, but it's not one that Rarebit can really do anything about with everything he does already anyway.

**Procurator** · 03/10/2008 07:03:35

Archangel wrote:

If that's the case there's not much point in RPing period, as Rarebit can always come out and say whatever that invalidates a number of things. The key is how the players handle it. I once RP'd a forced reinsertion, but when that news came out, I turned it into an angle of, "If I wasn't reinserted...what really happened to me and how did I get back?" sort of thing that was never resolved.

Oh, there's always a way to work around a problem like that, mostly even without retconning (although there's always that option to fall back on if all else fails). How d'you think TV dramas manage to continue despite all the implausible twists they throw at us? SMILEY

RP'ing isn't pointless in the slightest. Potential storyline conflicts can mostly be avoided by just avoiding subjects that stray too close to the primary plot. For example, a story about how a Cypherite infiltrated Old Zion is fine, but a story about how someone met Halborn before he entered the Matrix is just begging to get its author in trouble.

**Archangel**

Pfft. That's akin to saying you're a 700 year old lesbian vampire...

...except less believable. SMILEY

But yeah, that example is obviously way out there.

**Rogue**

The problem I have with events is the fact that every time the main story takes a turn, Rare's ideas invalidate a ton of people's stories, while there is almost no care in the world for it. Things such as reinsertion should have never been written out of the story. I don't know how many people that specific incident affected. I had to write up an entire new backstory for Rogue, and my entire org got basically devastated(they lost their purpose, and what we have now is no where near a purpose). Certain things should be left sacred in the story, and player RP should actually drive some of the decisions made for the main story. Until Rare and Chad realize that, player events will continue on the decline, and RP will start becoming nonexistent.

**Archangel**

Speaking of which, whatever happened to:

"The future of the Matrix is in your hands!" and "What happens next? You tell us."

Phrack · 03/10/2008 08:09:03

Archangel wrote:

Speaking of which, whatever happened to:
"The future of the Matrix is in your hands!" and "What happens next? You tell us."

Two words: Epic Fail.

Allowing players to determine the "fate of the Matrix" relies on the story-writer's willingness to either:

1. Leave the story open-ended and viable for any outcome.

2. Alter the story accordingly, based on what players have done.

Right now the one(s) behind the story consider neither of these a viable option. It's exactly why we no longer have the same Live Events we once had, on the same scale, or of the same breed.

Back in the Monolith days, events were of a much, much larger scale. Not (believe it or not) because there was a massive Live Events Team in play (if you remember, there was hardly ever, with the exception of the crew of the Novalis II, three characters on at a single time) but because they were just handled differently. Niobe would pop up in Mara and give a speech for all redpills loyal to Zion, Flood would show up in Apollyon and give a speech for all redpills loyal to the Merovingian, and Agent Gray or Skinner would show up in Midian Park and give a speech for all redpills loyal to the Machines.

By the time they left, we'd all find ourselves neck-deep in battle with tons (upon tons, upon tons) of NPC's that would spawn in their wake.

What we have now is much, much different.

Any time anyone participates in a Live Event now, they're participating in the SAME Live Event that they've participated in a million times before. They're just different colors being drawn on a xeroxed copy of the same coloring book page.

[Generic Live Event Outline - Any Organization - Any Server]

1. Organizational Liaison makes sure all players of said organization are in designated meeting area.

2. Organizational Liaison silences all players to allow the Organizational Leader Character to speak and say everything they have to say.

3. Organizational Leader Character tells players the objective of where they will be going and what they will be doing.

4. Organizational Liaison gives the location information to all players through /tell.

5. Players embark to location where they meet up with their Organizational Leader Character and kill some NPC's or drop a code bomb.

6. Players and Organization Leader Character speak with another Story Character.

7. Players and Organizational Leader Character kill some more NPC's.

8. Event Ends.

[end]

I'm not trying to be excessively negative. Not at all, really. I'm just saying that Live Events are bland now and watered down. At least in Player Events, even if it's some new guy's sad excuse for god-modding, it's something different.

ThePigeonKing

I don't "RP", rather I "act normal" if such an in-game situation occurs (in which case I hardly ever speak and I just answer or ask questions, while using good grammar and normal vocabulary). However, despite that, I still used to join player events. Not so much now because I've seen so many shoddy ones, so many poorly written ones, so many competitions that are fixed, that I've decided to either become an audience or not get involved at all in most player events.

Danger_Frog1471

I've hardly ever participated in a player event, partly because they where on too late for me or didnt really take my interest. I did attempt to write stories and plots etc a few times and i got quite a few ideas on the o but they where often closely related to the plot at that time and by the time it was written the story had moved on or as you said invalidated it.

I did manage quite a while ago to create a character related to the current plot, she was directly related but not in a way that could effect it...well it could but the outcome was preplanned and was going to always turn out the same so i knew it wouldnt effect it. Nether the less its actual story and plot was improvised as we went along. I managed to gather quite a crowed and on top of that i do believe some people enjoyed it. Including myself. I didnt advertise or post fliers and i think thats partially why it worked so well i managed to interest some RPers at tabor west who notified the rest SMILEY ultimately i bluffed an event from start to finnish (with a little prep ofcourse as i knew begining, middle and end) and it worked. My point is even though it was related to the larger plot at hand i did manage to create a sub plot event and because it was story related it cought the initial attention. Unfortunately it still doesnt solve the dilema between why people choose LE as apposed to PE SMILEY

I guess as you said its hard to find a half decent PE and people just dont want to waste time with something like that ^^

**ChloeAnn**

I love Player events. I think they're fun, and I'd love to join in on more, if there was more. :/

Canbus

Other than canonical issues, there are main issues I have with Player Events:

1. God-Modding. It's frustrating enough to do RP-PVP just because your RSI is not "leveled a certain way," not to mention that on RP stories with or without combat, the creators of said RP are running the story, giving very little leeway for an achievable outcome other than what the GMs want.

2. Time commitment: Long before I entered community college, I barely have enough time to participate in any Player Events at all. I try to get a decent amount of sleep, not to mention that I only have enough time to just do things solely in-game (really can't alt+tab reading the forums and playing the game at the same time since it causes major lag issues on my PC if I do it repeatedly). I just outright don't have time to read the Player Event or Syntax Renaissance forums and digest said written story because A. It will take too long, and B. I'll miss out on a possible Live Event just because I spent a few hours on reading up a PE. On top of that, I have martial arts classes every single night, Monday through Friday, and I am not interested in dropping out on that. As it is now, especially with possible employment I can only do critical missions and end-game content, that's about it.

3. Accessibility: Accessibility is very limited for non-forum players, much less players outside of an RP GM's faction. Whenever I ask "What the hell is going on" within an RP story, I always keep getting met with "Read the *CENSORED* forums." Newsflash, I don't have the freaking time for the forums. My time is limited as it is. I've seen that with Havocide's player events, not to mention that I was out of the loop constantly on Jobi's RP stories.

**Dulux** · 03/10/2008 10:06:00

Yeah i occasionaly get involved in some of these things, but never really fully, but it seems to me that alot of them revolve round puzzles and cryptic clues, and running back and forth from this website to this other one, which alot of people can't really get their heads around doing (or are like me just crap at puzzles and would prefer to just find stuff out in game). Also, some seem to go on and on and talking with a character can really get you nowhere sometimes, if you're not asking the right questions etc. so people kinda get frustrated or bored and give up.

I'm no expert, but maybe some more action, less talking would be nice...mysteries are all well and good, but sometimes, some good old, find this guy, kill this guy stuff would be kinda fun (I helped out a faction once with some RP where i basically had to kill em all (or not, wasn't scripted) and run about and they had to find me which was fun, and actually felt like you were doing something...rather than sitting about talking about nothing for two hours.

(though this is just me, no offence to anyone who likes it the other way, this is just how i feel sometimes

)

**Archangel** · 03/10/2008 10:09:44

Dulux wrote:

Yeah i occasionaly get involved in some of these things, but never really fully, but it seems to me that alot of them revolve round puzzles and cryptic clues, and running back and forth from this website to this other one, which alot of people can't really get their heads around doing (or are like me just crap at puzzles and would prefer to just find stuff out in game). Also, some seem to go on and on and talking with a character can really get you nowhere sometimes, if you're not asking the right questions etc. so people kinda get frustrated or bored and give up.

I'm no expert, but maybe some more action, less talking would be nice...mysteries are all well and good, but sometimes, some good old, find this guy, kill this guy stuff would be kinda fun (I helped out a faction once with some RP where i basically had to kill em all (or not, wasn't scripted) and run about and they had to find me which was fun, and actually felt like you were doing something...rather than sitting about talking about nothing for two hours.

(though this is just me, no offence to anyone who likes it the other way, this is just how i feel sometimes )

Well, the real problem in that regard with PE's is level. Most of the participants will end up being level 50 and it's a little useless and anti-climactic to have a level 50 go in to take out a bunch of level 10's. I wish the devs would give us some storyteller stuff like they have in SWG to spawn a few NPC's at a certain level.

Something like the Runtime Bit but for different NPC's would work nicely. Hint hint, Rarebit.