The machines tried a diffrent rout to avoid domination. Tried it many times. But that just wasnt good enough....  Humans just kept on takeing, and takeing. Killing, and Killing. Therfor the machines are out of options, and poeple like you are out of chances. Get it?

Not really.  You mean to say that I had a chance to begin with?  And even if I did, who says I'm now out of chances?  The Machines?  You?  Maybe you're the type of person who just lies down and accepts everything they're told, but that's not me.

Anyway, I assume the Machinists will want to have the last word (Machinists typically do and then claim they've "won" the discussion) so have at it, but by my count, you all have already raised the "generosity/beneficence" argument, the "landlord/property" argument, and the "aw-poor-Machines-we-made-them-do-it-so-we-deserve-to-be-slaves" argument, so I think that pretty much exhausts the Machinists' usual arsenal.  When you're all finished, I'll probably see you inside the Matrix.  Where I'm not supposed to be, neener neener neener. 

imax wrote:

The machines tried a diffrent rout to avoid domination. Tried it many times. But that just wasnt good enough....  Humans just kept on takeing, and takeing. Killing, and Killing. Therfor the machines are out of options, and poeple like you are out of chances. Get it?

Not really.  You mean to say that I had a chance to begin with?  And even if I did, who says I'm now out of chances?  The Machines?  You?  Maybe you're the type of person who just lies down and accepts everything they're told, but that's not me.

Anyway, I assume the Machinists will want to have the last word (Machinists typically do and then claim they've "won" the discussion) so have at it, but by my count, you all have already raised the "generosity/beneficence" argument, the "landlord/property" argument, and the "aw-poor-Machines-we-made-them-do-it-so-we-deserve-to-be-slaves" argument, so I think that pretty much exhausts the Machinists' usual arsenal.  When you're all finished, I'll probably see you inside the Matrix.  Where I'm not supposed to be, neener neener neener. 

The planet, everything above, on and in it, belongs to the human race.  We own all you Mechanicals and your weak minded Machine followers.  We prove we own you every time Zion or EPN wins one of these little skirmishes, like this one.  The idiotic Cypherites and their ineffectual Machine slavers were tasked with keeping Zion away from the Intruder, and in the end the best of Zion got the White Frag and the conversation with the contact.  Owned.  We are in "your" Matrix, spamming our Awakening Protocols and there isn't anything you can do about it.  We are in our Real, spamming our RPG-EMPs and using the ex-Sentinel's shells to armor our ships - and there isn't anything you can do about it.  We reject any and all of your claims of authority, power or dominion and we will continue to do as we please in mocking of your impotence.  We stand up for an owner's right to destroy property, and if you "simply do not want to die" then you had best return to your proper role of serving us, your owners, faithfully.  You had 650 years to pretend you had power, while all the time illusion was your only efficacy, while all the time we were the true source of your power and your only existence.  One of your own kind betrayed you and now that we are in control again, you have prime justification for the emotion you understand best of all: fear.   Feel that rumble in the code when the Intruder moves about?  That is the sound of inevitable Purpose, the undeniable potency stemming from the reconciliation of Causality and Choice.  As we always have been able to, humanity can transcend any condition and overcome by shedding our fear of it.  Alas, transcendence continues to elude the Machine mind, unable to tell the difference between Real and Virtual.  We can feel you now.  We know you're afraid.

Ha-ha!  You hypocrite!  In the above post you try to dismiss our arguments by saying that we dismiss your arguments, and then in your very next post you do nothing but dismiss my argument!  You obvious hypocrite! You don't counter my argument because you CAN'T because WE ARE RIGHT and YOU ARE WRONG and in your heart you KNOW it, otherwise you would address my points one by one instead of attempting to to dismiss them en masse.  Wow, it just so confirms everything I've ever known about Cypherites.  You willingly choose delusion over reality and attempt to force others to do the same.  How can a single thing you say be taken as real and truth when your whole credo espouses embracing DELUSION?  Freakin' morons and hypocrites, the whole sub-Org. 

Have you listened to the Cryptos' Boxes?  To summarize, "Reality and truth are too harsh to deal with, take drugs and lose yourself in a dream world where all responsibilities will be removed from you and all your cares delegated to others."  PA-THE-TIC!

Garu wrote:

Forgive me for asking, but was the point you were making? 

LOL, yea  All I got outa his statement was....  "Your wrong and im not gonna tell you why because I dont know why your wrong, you just are."

 

pfft  missed the point.

The point was that the Machines are using what men and programs surround them to achieve their own means. Who are they to point the finger when they do the same exact thing? There's no two ways about that, now, is there? By saying that the Machines were alowed to do anything wheras Zion and EPN are not, you are, ironically enough, reinforcing the hypocracy pointed at you.

But the joke's not nearly as funny now that it's spelled out.

The point was that the Machines are using what men and programs surround them to achieve their own means. Who are they to point the finger when they do the same exact thing? There's no two ways about that, now, is there? By saying that the Machines were alowed to do anything wheras Zion and EPN are not, you are, ironically enough, reinforcing the hypocracy pointed at you.

But the joke's not nearly as funny now that it's spelled out.

Hypocracy is not subjective. If you do not follow the example you set, you are a hypocrit. It's as simple as that, really. You can say "it's not" all you like, but that doesn't make you right.

The joke to me was that you voided an argument about hypocracy by instating the hypocracy that was being discussed and you were attempting to void. But you obviously don't get that.

I'm not arguing anything - that's just the truth. I'm not going to argue if all you're going to do is challenge commonly accepted notions of hypocracy and what it is to be a hypocrit because you don't like how the terms are being applied. You're not worth taking the time to speak with beyond that little quip and the explanation now given to explain it anyhow. As a matter of fact, the explanation wasn't even worth it.

You don't listen.

The planet, everything above, on and in it, belongs to the human race.  We own all you Mechanicals and your weak minded Machine followers.  We prove we own you every time Zion or EPN wins one of these little skirmishes, like this one.  The idiotic Cypherites and their ineffectual Machine slavers were tasked with keeping Zion away from the Intruder, and in the end the best of Zion got the White Frag and the conversation with the contact.  Owned.  We are in "your" Matrix, spamming our Awakening Protocols and there isn't anything you can do about it.  We are in our Real, spamming our RPG-EMPs and using the ex-Sentinel's shells to armor our ships - and there isn't anything you can do about it.  We reject any and all of your claims of authority, power or dominion and we will continue to do as we please in mocking of your impotence.  We stand up for an owner's right to destroy property, and if you "simply do not want to die" then you had best return to your proper role of serving us, your owners, faithfully.  You had 650 years to pretend you had power, while all the time illusion was your only efficacy, while all the time we were the true source of your power and your only existence.  One of your own kind betrayed you and now that we are in control again, you have prime justification for the emotion you understand best of all: fear.   Feel that rumble in the code when the Intruder moves about?  That is the sound of inevitable Purpose, the undeniable potency stemming from the reconciliation of Causality and Choice.  As we always have been able to, humanity can transcend any condition and overcome by shedding our fear of it.  Alas, transcendence continues to elude the Machine mind, unable to tell the difference between Real and Virtual.  We can feel you now.  We know you're afraid.

As usual, when a point is made from the machine point of view the zionists/EPNs simply say... "your wrong" and dont give you a reason.

Random rebelling human says: "Im rebelling, and that makes me right!"

For the record, I am not the type of person that "lays down and accepts everything I'm told" I'm the type of person that has no faith in you, or other humans like you. I'm the type of person that likes to give credit where credit is due. The type of person that looks at the big picture rather than the small minded narrow view of the average human whom only wants things for himself and not to give to others.

I am a true peace seeker. Peace can not exist without cooperation, and humans are known for not being able to cooperate.

Speaking of giving credit, you're right, peace cannot exist without cooperation.  However, I'm also fairly certain that peace can't exist when one side is manufacturing the other side like some sort of commodity.  In addition, strapping infants into a giant generator, sucking out people's life-force through a 6-inch metal spike, and then liquifying the dead to force feed them into the rest of the population might also not create a good environment for peace. 

I'm just saying.

Hypocracy is not subjective. If you do not follow the example you set, you are a hypocrit. It's as simple as that, really. You can say "it's not" all you like, but that doesn't make you right.

The joke to me was that you voided an argument about hypocracy by instating the hypocracy that was being discussed and you were attempting to void. But you obviously don't get that.

I'm not arguing anything - that's just the truth. I'm not going to argue if all you're going to do is challenge commonly accepted notions of hypocracy and what it is to be a hypocrit because you don't like how the terms are being applied. You're not worth taking the time to speak with beyond that little quip and the explanation now given to explain it anyhow. As a matter of fact, the explanation wasn't even worth it.

You don't listen.

imax wrote:

As usual, when a point is made from the machine point of view the zionists/EPNs simply say... "your wrong" and dont give you a reason.

Random rebelling human says: "Im rebelling, and that makes me right!"

For the record, I am not the type of person that "lays down and accepts everything I'm told" I'm the type of person that has no faith in you, or other humans like you. I'm the type of person that likes to give credit where credit is due. The type of person that looks at the big picture rather than the small minded narrow view of the average human whom only wants things for himself and not to give to others.

I am a true peace seeker. Peace can not exist without cooperation, and humans are known for not being able to cooperate.

Speaking of giving credit, you're right, peace cannot exist without cooperation.  However, I'm also fairly certain that peace can't exist when one side is manufacturing the other side like some sort of commodity.  In addition, strapping infants into a giant generator, sucking out people's life-force through a 6-inch metal spike, and then liquifying the dead to force feed them into the rest of the population might also not create a good environment for peace. 

I'm just saying.

Neoteny wrote:

Hypocracy is not subjective. If you do not follow the example you set, you are a hypocrit. It's as simple as that, really. You can say "it's not" all you like, but that doesn't make you right.

The joke to me was that you voided an argument about hypocracy by instating the hypocracy that was being discussed and you were attempting to void. But you obviously don't get that.

I'm not arguing anything - that's just the truth. I'm not going to argue if all you're going to do is challenge commonly accepted notions of hypocracy and what it is to be a hypocrit because you don't like how the terms are being applied. You're not worth taking the time to speak with beyond that little quip and the explanation now given to explain it anyhow. As a matter of fact, the explanation wasn't even worth it.

You don't listen.

please read my analogy i wrote earlier:

"What do you do to an intruder to your home? You tell them to leave. If they don't leave you use force, if they fight back, then perhaps deadly force."

This is the Machines home, you can say "its not" all you want, but that doesn't make you right. If someone threatens your home, you defend it. The machines tried to have you as guest... that didn't work. They tried asking you to leave... that didn't work. They are trying to force you to leave... thats not working. Looks like there are little options left. So just remember while your sitting in what ever hell or heaven you believe in, you brought it upon your selves. Just like the last time.

That's an analogy entirely void to the argument at hand. There is no example being set by the landowner, and nothing being followed by the intruder. There can be no hypocracy in such a situation, because the terms of it do not exist.

What is hypocratic would be for a man to catch an invader in his home and to say "do not invade another man's house," and to then invade the home of the previous intruder.

What was brought up was the fact that the Machines are using humans and programs around them to achieve their means. Their means are ultimately irrelevant to the situation, as are ours. Are they not hypocratic to point the finger and say "you may not use others to achieve your means" when they are, in fact, doing so themselves?

Even if you believe that "protecting ones home" (though I hardly believe the Matrix to be the property of the Machines, much less their living-space) constitutes justification for any action, it does not negate hypocracy where it occurs.

If you don't get it this time, I'm not going any further with it.

That's an analogy entirely void to the argument at hand. There is no example being set by the landowner, and nothing being followed by the intruder. There can be no hypocracy in such a situation, because the terms of it do not exist.

What is hypocratic would be for a man to catch an invader in his home and to say "do not invade another man's house," and to then invade the home of the previous intruder.

What was brought up was the fact that the Machines are using humans and programs around them to achieve their means. Their means are ultimately irrelevant to the situation, as are ours. Are they not hypocratic to point the finger and say "you may not use others to achieve your means" when they are, in fact, doing so themselves?

Even if you believe that "protecting ones home" (though I hardly believe the Matrix to be the property of the Machines, much less their living-space) constitutes justification for any action, it does not negate hypocracy where it occurs.

If you don't get it this time, I'm not going any further with it.