Confuse stops you from even changing tactics (Speed, power, grab, block) and give you a CT downgrade. Stun stops you from using special moves and also give you a CT downgrade.

After a quick test-run. You're right, you get a -20 CT bonus from Stun (which in IL only affects your normal interlock rounds), but I couldn't find anything regarding Confuse besides the switch tactics. It's in essence, from what I could tell, a powerless that doesn't allow you to switch tactics, which honestly from the intentions of the game's combat system really shouldn't let you switch tactics anyways because "technically" that's an exploit that somehow is accepted because it's used so often.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that these happen less than half the time (30% on Suicidal, and unknown for the Wrist Throw, but still not 100% as we know it), as opposed to the 100% PRCS. Wrist Throw has 31 DPS with a 65 IS cost, Suicidal with a 35 IS cost and 25 DPS, and PRCS totalling in at 21 DPS and a 40 IS cost. The only thing that seems a little off is the huge jump of IS cost with Wrist Throw, with Kung Fu having Average, Karate having Above Average, and Aikido having Below Average damage which is normal in the differences for the trees. PRCS also has the highest Interlock Accuracy boost of all three of them, at 20 compared to WT 18, and SBF 7 (lol). It just amazes me how this move has a 100% chance to powerless as opposed to the lower percentages (SBF being 30% which is very low compared the 70% increase of PRCS) of the others.

It just doesn't seem like to me the huge increase in percentage is compensating for one round in which you can't tactic switch or you might possibly lose due to a negative CT debuff (not like you'd be doing any abilities to tactic switch anyways, unless you're just sitting on block which wouldn't matter or grab, which again wouldn't matter. I actually don't see why you'd want to change especially for MA when it's just grabpowergrabpower with the ability spam. It's rare for people to go for states once they've gone past the initial going into interlock round.).

Pylat wrote:

Confuse stops you from even changing tactics (Speed, power, grab, block) and give you a CT downgrade. Stun stops you from using special moves and also give you a CT downgrade.

After a quick test-run. You're right, you get a -20 CT bonus from Stun (which in IL only affects your normal interlock rounds), but I couldn't find anything regarding Confuse besides the switch tactics. It's in essence, from what I could tell, a powerless that doesn't allow you to switch tactics, which honestly from the intentions of the game's combat system really shouldn't let you switch tactics anyways because "technically" that's an exploit that somehow is accepted because it's used so often.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that these happen less than half the time (30% on Suicidal, and unknown for the Wrist Throw, but still not 100% as we know it), as opposed to the 100% PRCS. Wrist Throw has 31 DPS with a 65 IS cost, Suicidal with a 35 IS cost and 25 DPS, and PRCS totalling in at 21 DPS and a 40 IS cost. The only thing that seems a little off is the huge jump of IS cost with Wrist Throw, with Kung Fu having Average, Karate having Above Average, and Aikido having Below Average damage which is normal in the differences for the trees. PRCS also has the highest Interlock Accuracy boost of all three of them, at 20 compared to WT 18, and SBF 7 (lol). It just amazes me how this move has a 100% chance to powerless as opposed to the lower percentages (SBF being 30% which is very low compared the 70% increase of PRCS) of the others.

It just doesn't seem like to me the huge increase in percentage is compensating for one round in which you can't tactic switch or you might possibly lose due to a negative CT debuff (not like you'd be doing any abilities to tactic switch anyways, unless you're just sitting on block which wouldn't matter or grab, which again wouldn't matter. I actually don't see why you'd want to change especially for MA when it's just grabpowergrabpower with the ability spam. It's rare for people to go for states once they've gone past the initial going into interlock round.).

Ballak wrote:

Pylat wrote:

Confuse stops you from even changing tactics (Speed, power, grab, block) and give you a CT downgrade. Stun stops you from using special moves and also give you a CT downgrade.

After a quick test-run. You're right, you get a -20 CT bonus from Stun (which in IL only affects your normal interlock rounds), but I couldn't find anything regarding Confuse besides the switch tactics. It's in essence, from what I could tell, a powerless that doesn't allow you to switch tactics, which honestly from the intentions of the game's combat system really shouldn't let you switch tactics anyways because "technically" that's an exploit that somehow is accepted because it's used so often.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that these happen less than half the time (30% on Suicidal, and unknown for the Wrist Throw, but still not 100% as we know it), as opposed to the 100% PRCS. Wrist Throw has 31 DPS with a 65 IS cost, Suicidal with a 35 IS cost and 25 DPS, and PRCS totalling in at 21 DPS and a 40 IS cost. The only thing that seems a little off is the huge jump of IS cost with Wrist Throw, with Kung Fu having Average, Karate having Above Average, and Aikido having Below Average damage which is normal in the differences for the trees. PRCS also has the highest Interlock Accuracy boost of all three of them, at 20 compared to WT 18, and SBF 7 (lol). It just amazes me how this move has a 100% chance to powerless as opposed to the lower percentages (SBF being 30% which is very low compared the 70% increase of PRCS) of the others.

It just doesn't seem like to me the huge increase in percentage is compensating for one round in which you can't tactic switch or you might possibly lose due to a negative CT debuff (not like you'd be doing any abilities to tactic switch anyways, unless you're just sitting on block which wouldn't matter or grab, which again wouldn't matter. I actually don't see why you'd want to change especially for MA when it's just grabpowergrabpower with the ability spam. It's rare for people to go for states once they've gone past the initial going into interlock round.).

Comparing it yeah it seems Wrist throw and PRCS should be rebalanced. However that last comment is completely inaccurate for good MAs, which is why syntax has the worst MAs.

The Leo wrote:

Ballak wrote:

Pylat wrote:

Confuse stops you from even changing tactics (Speed, power, grab, block) and give you a CT downgrade. Stun stops you from using special moves and also give you a CT downgrade.

After a quick test-run. You're right, you get a -20 CT bonus from Stun (which in IL only affects your normal interlock rounds), but I couldn't find anything regarding Confuse besides the switch tactics. It's in essence, from what I could tell, a powerless that doesn't allow you to switch tactics, which honestly from the intentions of the game's combat system really shouldn't let you switch tactics anyways because "technically" that's an exploit that somehow is accepted because it's used so often.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that these happen less than half the time (30% on Suicidal, and unknown for the Wrist Throw, but still not 100% as we know it), as opposed to the 100% PRCS. Wrist Throw has 31 DPS with a 65 IS cost, Suicidal with a 35 IS cost and 25 DPS, and PRCS totalling in at 21 DPS and a 40 IS cost. The only thing that seems a little off is the huge jump of IS cost with Wrist Throw, with Kung Fu having Average, Karate having Above Average, and Aikido having Below Average damage which is normal in the differences for the trees. PRCS also has the highest Interlock Accuracy boost of all three of them, at 20 compared to WT 18, and SBF 7 (lol). It just amazes me how this move has a 100% chance to powerless as opposed to the lower percentages (SBF being 30% which is very low compared the 70% increase of PRCS) of the others.

It just doesn't seem like to me the huge increase in percentage is compensating for one round in which you can't tactic switch or you might possibly lose due to a negative CT debuff (not like you'd be doing any abilities to tactic switch anyways, unless you're just sitting on block which wouldn't matter or grab, which again wouldn't matter. I actually don't see why you'd want to change especially for MA when it's just grabpowergrabpower with the ability spam. It's rare for people to go for states once they've gone past the initial going into interlock round.).

Comparing it yeah it seems Wrist throw and PRCS should be rebalanced. However that last comment is completely inaccurate for good MAs, which is why syntax has the worst MAs.

Syntax has the worst MAs, yet really there is no way to compare the difference between Recursion or Vector to Syntax, so technically although you may find that true to yourself, that's just your personal opinion from a tournament rarely anybody shows up to anymore probably because they don't care about being the best MA ever, imo (no offense). At least on Syntax.

Ballak wrote:

The Leo wrote:

Ballak wrote:

Pylat wrote:

Confuse stops you from even changing tactics (Speed, power, grab, block) and give you a CT downgrade. Stun stops you from using special moves and also give you a CT downgrade.

After a quick test-run. You're right, you get a -20 CT bonus from Stun (which in IL only affects your normal interlock rounds), but I couldn't find anything regarding Confuse besides the switch tactics. It's in essence, from what I could tell, a powerless that doesn't allow you to switch tactics, which honestly from the intentions of the game's combat system really shouldn't let you switch tactics anyways because "technically" that's an exploit that somehow is accepted because it's used so often.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that these happen less than half the time (30% on Suicidal, and unknown for the Wrist Throw, but still not 100% as we know it), as opposed to the 100% PRCS. Wrist Throw has 31 DPS with a 65 IS cost, Suicidal with a 35 IS cost and 25 DPS, and PRCS totalling in at 21 DPS and a 40 IS cost. The only thing that seems a little off is the huge jump of IS cost with Wrist Throw, with Kung Fu having Average, Karate having Above Average, and Aikido having Below Average damage which is normal in the differences for the trees. PRCS also has the highest Interlock Accuracy boost of all three of them, at 20 compared to WT 18, and SBF 7 (lol). It just amazes me how this move has a 100% chance to powerless as opposed to the lower percentages (SBF being 30% which is very low compared the 70% increase of PRCS) of the others.

It just doesn't seem like to me the huge increase in percentage is compensating for one round in which you can't tactic switch or you might possibly lose due to a negative CT debuff (not like you'd be doing any abilities to tactic switch anyways, unless you're just sitting on block which wouldn't matter or grab, which again wouldn't matter. I actually don't see why you'd want to change especially for MA when it's just grabpowergrabpower with the ability spam. It's rare for people to go for states once they've gone past the initial going into interlock round.).

Comparing it yeah it seems Wrist throw and PRCS should be rebalanced. However that last comment is completely inaccurate for good MAs, which is why syntax has the worst MAs.

Syntax has the worst MAs, yet really there is no way to compare the difference between Recursion or Vector to Syntax, so technically although you may find that true to yourself, that's just your personal opinion from a tournament rarely anybody shows up to anymore probably because they don't care about being the best MA ever, imo (no offense). At least on Syntax.

That's an oppinion of 10 people I know, and the purpose of the tourneys was to see which server had best players.

Anyhow since after 5 threads about rebalancing wrist throw and yet no effect I doubt this will happen either (too tired of talking to the wall, so don't really care anymore).

I see people use Freedom to Joints rather often when fighting hackers actually. PRCS is not a god mode attack, if it was so God like (As you imply) every MA would be spamming it all over the place, yet they aren't.

FAR is a different story, but it really needs to be restricted to IL only, people are talking from the perspective of out of IL, if you are in IL and have someone shooting you with power tactic waiting for the staggered, they are more likely to state you and their aint nothin' you can do about it while IL'd, then FAR comes along and unless you have been keeping a careful eye on your surroundings (maybe I'm slow but I find it difficult to concentrate on all out of IL stuff while IL'ing someone) then you aren't gunna switch your hypers and tank up on ball def/res, so boom! you get hit with FAR and your health is non-existant, and that, quite un-simply, is why FAR needs to be IL only.

To be honest, I can't see why most of the gunmen moves (from a realism standpoint) can't be done OoIL. Those that require the user to be IL'd are those that make physical contact with the opponant.

To me it seems crazy to restrict a probably the only high powered, non-physical IL and OoIL move to IL only in a class which, for the most part, is supposed to be a both in and out of IL class, especially when it's long casting timer and poor accuracy plays a large factor even with high accuracy set of clothing. As for being in IL, if you're in IL with, for example, a MA and you have HyperBlock activated, you're just as screwed if a hacker comes along with logic cannon as you are with a gunner and FAR.

As for PRCS, I'd agree on a slightly longer reuse time and have the chance very high. Besides, technically it shouldn't say "100% chance of powerless (duration)". 100% means everytime, so it should say "causes powerless (duration).

AlphaCoder wrote:

FAR is a different story, but it really needs to be restricted to IL only, people are talking from the perspective of out of IL, if you are in IL and have someone shooting you with power tactic waiting for the staggered, they are more likely to state you and their aint nothin' you can do about it while IL'd, then FAR comes along and unless you have been keeping a careful eye on your surroundings (maybe I'm slow but I find it difficult to concentrate on all out of IL stuff while IL'ing someone) then you aren't gunna switch your hypers and tank up on ball def/res, so boom! you get hit with FAR and your health is non-existant, and that, quite un-simply, is why FAR needs to be IL only.

To be honest, I can't see why most of the gunmen moves (from a realism standpoint) can't be done OoIL. Those that require the user to be IL'd are those that make physical contact with the opponant.

To me it seems crazy to restrict a probably the only high powered, non-physical IL and OoIL move to IL only in a class which, for the most part, is supposed to be a both in and out of IL class, especially when it's long casting timer and poor accuracy plays a large factor even with high accuracy set of clothing. As for being in IL, if you're in IL with, for example, a MA and you have HyperBlock activated, you're just as screwed if a hacker comes along with logic cannon as you are with a gunner and FAR.

As for PRCS, I'd agree on a slightly longer reuse time and have the chance very high. Besides, technically it shouldn't say "100% chance of powerless (duration)". 100% means everytime, so it should say "causes powerless (duration). " width="15" height="15" />

So, I was PvPing, and it seems like pretty much every MA I fight that has some of Aikido loaded like LittleLeeLoo likes to PRCS on the first turn of interlock. And then if they don't die instantly, like to Maki-Okatashi and then PRCS as soon as possible afterwards.

but guise accordin to dis thred tat dusn't happan.

So my point still stands, and I guess Pylat isn't ever going to respond again so why exactly does (if we compare the other high level moves that are in the same place as PRCS, which concordantly have similar effects) PRCS get a 100% chance as opposed to the 30% of Suicidal and the just random as we know it percentage that the Wrist Throw (although as we've established, insane IS cost) has to stun? PRCS has the highest interlock accuracy of all three. Like normal, the Aikido tree has relatively low damage, self-buffs, and high defense rolls with their abilities. PRCS is a low damage, high rolling attack, that apparently gets a 100% effect chance rather than the other two in the other MA trees. Why is that? Yes, Powerless isn't as good as maybe stun, and Confusion is basically just another powerless, but I definitely do not think that the ability deserves a guaranteed 100% chance to cause it's powerless effect. If anything, the re-use timer should be boosted to 12 seconds, making it in theory unable to be used until 3 rounds later, but I don't want to nerf Aikido, I don't want people to never use Aikido because they can't use a *CENSORED* ability do the nerf'd interlock re-use timers. I just want a non-state ability that can be used in interlock as a regular move to be balanced like all the other effect interlock moves out there that DO NOT CAUSE THEIR POSSIBLE EFFECT 100% OF THE TIME. Is that so much to ask?

MA needs a nerf

So, I was PvPing, and it seems like pretty much every MA I fight that has some of Aikido loaded like LittleLeeLoo likes to PRCS on the first turn of interlock. And then if they don't die instantly, like to Maki-Okatashi and then PRCS as soon as possible afterwards.

But, guys, according to this thread that doesn't happen.

So my point still stands, and I guess Pylat isn't ever going to respond again so why exactly does (if we compare the other high level moves that are in the same place as PRCS, which concordantly have similar effects) PRCS get a 100% chance as opposed to the 30% of Suicidal and the just random as we know it percentage that the Wrist Throw (although as we've established, insane IS cost) has to stun? PRCS has the highest interlock accuracy of all three. Like normal, the Aikido tree has relatively low damage, self-buffs, and high defense rolls with their abilities. PRCS is a low damage, high rolling attack, that apparently gets a 100% effect chance rather than the other two in the other MA trees. Why is that? Yes, Powerless isn't as good as maybe stun, and Confusion is basically just another powerless, but I definitely do not think that the ability deserves a guaranteed 100% chance to cause it's powerless effect. If anything, the re-use timer should be boosted to 12 seconds, making it in theory unable to be used until 3 rounds later, but I don't want to nerf Aikido, I don't want people to never use Aikido because they can't use a *CENSORED* ability due to the nerf'd interlock re-use timers. I just want a non-state ability that can be used in interlock as a regular move to be balanced like all the other effect interlock moves out there that do not cause their possible effect 100% of the time. Is that so much to ask?

Fixed.

jl10899 wrote:

MA needs a nerf

You're joking, right?