Ballak wrote:Pylat wrote:Are you two making up things I never said then arguing against them? The only point I am making is that IF you reduce the max height it still has to be high enough to evade the lvl 100 agent spawns. And before you carry on, in my experience increasing HJ increases the HORIZONTAL distance, not the vertical, even with just BETA loaded you can jump just as high as someone with it maxed. And the nerf to HJ in combat state isn't well thought out cause none of you really considered the PvE problem. The only reason you want to change it is cause you don't like people jumping in PvP. It's been said many times, L2Root.Actually, #1 a level 1 with HJ Beta won't go as high as a level 50 with HJ just going straight up.#2, I have no problem with people jumping, it's just when people jump to the point where there's no physical way to actually follow them (cntrl+space) because I lose them on target, because it's only because they jumped so high that they left my client range, I get sort of pissed. And I mean, if they meant for that to happen, why do they not have precision HJ do the same exact thing as cntrl+space?I do agree that the max height should be decreased, just make sure it's still possible to get away from the agents.
Pylat wrote:Are you two making up things I never said then arguing against them? The only point I am making is that IF you reduce the max height it still has to be high enough to evade the lvl 100 agent spawns. And before you carry on, in my experience increasing HJ increases the HORIZONTAL distance, not the vertical, even with just BETA loaded you can jump just as high as someone with it maxed. And the nerf to HJ in combat state isn't well thought out cause none of you really considered the PvE problem. The only reason you want to change it is cause you don't like people jumping in PvP. It's been said many times, L2Root.Actually, #1 a level 1 with HJ Beta won't go as high as a level 50 with HJ just going straight up.#2, I have no problem with people jumping, it's just when people jump to the point where there's no physical way to actually follow them (cntrl+space) because I lose them on target, because it's only because they jumped so high that they left my client range, I get sort of pissed. And I mean, if they meant for that to happen, why do they not have precision HJ do the same exact thing as cntrl+space?
Are you two making up things I never said then arguing against them? The only point I am making is that IF you reduce the max height it still has to be high enough to evade the lvl 100 agent spawns. And before you carry on, in my experience increasing HJ increases the HORIZONTAL distance, not the vertical, even with just BETA loaded you can jump just as high as someone with it maxed. And the nerf to HJ in combat state isn't well thought out cause none of you really considered the PvE problem. The only reason you want to change it is cause you don't like people jumping in PvP. It's been said many times, L2Root.
Actually, #1 a level 1 with HJ Beta won't go as high as a level 50 with HJ just going straight up.
#2, I have no problem with people jumping, it's just when people jump to the point where there's no physical way to actually follow them (cntrl+space) because I lose them on target, because it's only because they jumped so high that they left my client range, I get sort of pissed. And I mean, if they meant for that to happen, why do they not have precision HJ do the same exact thing as cntrl+space?
ThePigeonKing wrote:Also about evading Agents, Agents are not made to be evaded; They're made to make things difficult for you. When you think "nerf HJ" why do you assume that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get to higher ground to evade an Agent anyway? Your lowbie is NOT Zionist, therefore you do not know. If you get ganked by gangs outside of Richland it can be partially attributed as your fault (No that's not an excuse to say "Well serves them right, nerf HJ so they can't get away). But the agent spawns are completely out of your control, the only way to get rid of them is to grind 127 missions. And the agents make it difficult enough, cause if they ever spawn while you are in IL you can basically write yourself off as dead.
Also about evading Agents, Agents are not made to be evaded; They're made to make things difficult for you. When you think "nerf HJ" why do you assume that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get to higher ground to evade an Agent anyway?
So what? Have your character have maybe a slightly harder time getting away from an Agent. Gasp, it might shoot you/a lowbie twice. They might die! They might have to reconstruct! Oh, the humanity.
Zudrag wrote:So what? Have your character have maybe a slightly harder time getting away from an Agent. Gasp, it might shoot you/a lowbie twice. They might die! They might have to reconstruct! Oh, the humanity.And now you're just under-exaggerating the agent spawns. At least now we can HJ once and KNOW they are gone. If you HAVE to find a high building to jump up onto it can be FAR harder than you say. What if you are in a section where there isn't easy access to a high building? And with some lowbies TWO shots is all it takes to kill them.
Hyperjump 1: Low roof of buildingLook for a section of roof that isn't accessible by foot. If you can't find any, LET'S ASSUME COMBAT STATE NERFS HJ, wait until out of combat state (because Agents have to run up flights of stairs/run through buildings to elevators to get to you at this point), jump to another roof.Hyperjump 2 or 3: Jump to part of roof inaccessible by foot. Agent despawns.Oh, here's another way:1. Run inside a building.
Hyper Jumping onto a roof and waiting for combat to go away just makes them even more of an annoyance.
And going into a building the level 100 Agent follows you and now you cant HJ at all. There has been a few times when I have been missioning, an Agent will spawn on me and I wont notice just running to the next mission area, then while Interlocking a couple NPCs an Agent will burst in and kill me.
But yes, If someone is going to Snipe-Shoot-Jump, then they cant kill you, they are running away, so heal up and if they want your CQ they will have to actually stay and fight.
To be frank there isnt a “problem” with hyper jump. It’s a method of travel in the game and as mentioned its pretty much a requirement during the levelling process anything you do to penalise its use will hit the levelling process and frustrate a lot of lower level players.
The problem isn’t the ability its it’s the abuse of it in PvP I find it frustrating but I also have great joy chasing said jumper catching them and killing them solo. I would like to see something done about it but at the end of the day its not that big a problem.
I like Ballak's idea with the height thing but it wont stop people doing the *ab*-Jump-*ab* technique. So the frustration factor will still be there. I like how some people that are jumpers will say things like “wow I have played for X hours and only died once” well yeah I could do the same if every time somebody walked close to me I jumped away. There is no skill involved but its your game play how you like im not going to tell you how to play it.As for the comments about evading agents you don’t NEED HJ to evade an agent run to a building go to the top and jump off and the agent is gone, the 255’s are a pain but If you hard line jump of cross a boarder to a “tapped” area they stop spawning on you, anyway your supposed to be scared of agents and have a hard time evading them, that’s the horror element of the films and it should be the same in the game imo.
ThePigeonKing wrote:Hyperjump 1: Low roof of buildingLook for a section of roof that isn't accessible by foot. If you can't find any, LET'S ASSUME COMBAT STATE NERFS HJ, wait until out of combat state (because Agents have to run up flights of stairs/run through buildings to elevators to get to you at this point), jump to another roof.Hyperjump 2 or 3: Jump to part of roof inaccessible by foot. Agent despawns.Oh, here's another way:1. Run inside a building.Hyper Jumping onto a roof and waiting for combat to go away just makes them even more of an annoyance.And going into a building the level 100 Agent follows you and now you cant HJ at all. There has been a few times when I have been missioning, an Agent will spawn on me and I wont notice just running to the next mission area, then while Interlocking a couple NPCs an Agent will burst in and kill me.But yes, If someone is going to Snipe-Shoot-Jump, then they cant kill you, they are running away, so heal up and if they want your CQ they will have to actually stay and fight.
To be frank there isnt a “problem” with hyper jump. It’s a method of travel in the game and as mentioned its pretty much a requirement during the levelling process anything you do to penalise its use will hit the levelling process and frustrate a lot of lower level players.The problem isn’t the ability its it’s the abuse of it in PvP I find it frustrating but I also have great joy chasing said jumper catching them and killing them solo. I would like to see something done about it but at the end of the day its not that big a problem.I like Ballak's idea with the height thing but it wont stop people doing the *ab*-Jump-*ab* technique. So the frustration factor will still be there. I like how some people that are jumpers will say things like “wow I have played for X hours and only died once” well yeah I could do the same if every time somebody walked close to me I jumped away. There is no skill involved but its your game play how you like im not going to tell you how to play it.As for the comments about evading agents you don’t NEED HJ to evade an agent run to a building go to the top and jump off and the agent is gone, the 255’s are a pain but If you hard line jump of cross a boarder to a “tapped” area they stop spawning on you, anyway your supposed to be scared of agents and have a hard time evading them, that’s the horror element of the films and it should be the same in the game imo.
I sit on both sides of the fence here: if I'm getting ganked then I see HJ as a valid option, but nothing "gets my goat" like a snivelling little wretch who slips away when faced with a fair fight. I understand, and respect, that some people build for maximum offensive capability, and will use HJ as a viable (and legal!) way to offer a defensive option.
(I can't be bothered to look through all the pages of this thread, so I apologize if I am repeating previous suggestions).
1. Could there not be a timer so that HJ is disabled for a short time (5-10 seconds) when you have used a Roll-Out ability?
2. Could this timer penalty not be removed/reduced if you are taking damage from multiple opponents (3+)?
3. Similarly, the timer could also start if you use a stealth attack ability with high damage potential.
Is this a nerf? I hope not. I have seen some skillful players who refrain from HJ, even when it is the only realistic survival option. I'm just of the opinion that all trees should have an element of trade-off. At the moment, I don't see many disadvantages to those who keep on the side-lines and whistle off a few pot-shots and watch the CQs mount up. In my opinion, it cheapens the efforts of those who use the trees well and deserve the high CQ scores.
