The Tactic Switch has been "approved" by the devs at the end of the few dozen page long discussion about it ages ago.

I still don't think it's a good idea but not using it, believe me, puts you at a sever disadvantage in duels and PvP.

Gensatsu wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

This is the reason why Grab is the most popular tactic out here nowadays. Using the "Tactic Switch" you will gain a 35% damage increase when hitting the ability with Grab and enhancing it with Power. Since Grab gives you very good defense and even some accuracy, Grab becomes pretty much "uber" in many cases. Though Grab is pretty balanced (-15% damage, which makes it, believe me, very difficult to win duels without Tactic Switch and purely on grab;; Also Evade goes down more easily but it is also easier to break someone elses evade), Tactic Switch negates that negative.

 

Daze specials are in SMGs (and one less popular in Duelist), Stagger Special in Rifleman (my favourite =P) and SMGs and Grab Specials in Duelist only.

 

Well, I hope i do make sense to you =P

 

Mfg, GG

Point Blank seems to be a very powerful special why is it less popular? I guess I assume its powerful from its DPS number which I admit I don't understand too well yet so maybe I should head over to Redpill Rescue and ask for some explanation regarding those numbers b/c they confuse me at first glance...I've just been assuming higher is better but that's not quantifiable at all.

The ability I meant wasn't Dual Point Blank, which is quite the popular one, but Pistol Whip. You rarely see that one, because people usually use FAR (Full Auto Redux) from SMG Specialist, also Duelists don't use Speed too often.

D.P.S. means "Damage per second". Damage doesn't necessarily increase only because it's D.P.S is higher. Each ability has a damage time (IMO, devs aren't allowed to tell exactly how it works =/) inside an IL round (which is 4 seconds long). The longer that damage time, the higher the damage output. The prime example is Spies "Leg Sweep", which has 12 D.P.S. but has an incredibly high damage output (which one would usually expect from an ability of 20 D.P.S. or higher, which means it would have an incredibly high damage timer). Outside IL the damage depends on the length of the cast timer. Prime example would be Devastation field in Destroyer. It has 2 D.P.S. but a huge cast timer ending in a damage that is higher than a Code Nuke 3.0 in the Howitzer tree.

=P

CodeNut wrote:

GypsyJuggler wrote:

Yes it has been defined as an exploit but since Rarebit looked at the problem and decided not to fix it, it has essentially been accepted perforce as a viable way to play the game.

That's a rather dubious statement since Rarebit wasn't able to fix it, so how did he decide not to fix it?

Here is the thread: http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/..._id=36300021594

You might want a drink and a sandwich if you intend to read it all.

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Gensatsu wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

This is the reason why Grab is the most popular tactic out here nowadays. Using the "Tactic Switch" you will gain a 35% damage increase when hitting the ability with Grab and enhancing it with Power. Since Grab gives you very good defense and even some accuracy, Grab becomes pretty much "uber" in many cases. Though Grab is pretty balanced (-15% damage, which makes it, believe me, very difficult to win duels without Tactic Switch and purely on grab;; Also Evade goes down more easily but it is also easier to break someone elses evade), Tactic Switch negates that negative.

 

Daze specials are in SMGs (and one less popular in Duelist), Stagger Special in Rifleman (my favourite =P) and SMGs and Grab Specials in Duelist only.

 

Well, I hope i do make sense to you =P

 

Mfg, GG

Point Blank seems to be a very powerful special why is it less popular? I guess I assume its powerful from its DPS number which I admit I don't understand too well yet so maybe I should head over to Redpill Rescue and ask for some explanation regarding those numbers b/c they confuse me at first glance...I've just been assuming higher is better but that's not quantifiable at all.

The ability I meant wasn't Dual Point Blank, which is quite the popular one, but Pistol Whip. You rarely see that one, because people usually use FAR (Full Auto Redux) from SMG Specialist, also Duelists don't use Speed too often.

D.P.S. means "Damage per second". Damage doesn't necessarily increase only because it's D.P.S is higher. Each ability has a damage time (IMO, devs aren't allowed to tell exactly how it works =/) inside an IL round (which is 4 seconds long). The longer that damage time, the higher the damage output. The prime example is Spies "Leg Sweep", which has 12 D.P.S. but has an incredibly high damage output (which one would usually expect from an ability of 20 D.P.S. or higher, which means it would have an incredibly high damage timer). Outside IL the damage depends on the length of the cast timer. Prime example would be Devastation field in Destroyer. It has 2 D.P.S. but a huge cast timer ending in a damage that is higher than a Code Nuke 3.0 in the Howitzer tree.

=P

So the assumption is that everything is calculated based on a 4 second cast timer in IL? Because I haven't found a cast timer in any of the descriptions...perhaps some abilities take longer than one round to activate? Without knowing the S part of DPS it makes it hard for me to really get a grasp on (then again I'm on Lvl 20 perhaps it will come with time) since it doesn't seem to be as well explained as it is in other games that I've played (WoW for example). I'm pretty content with Pistol Slide at the moment...just curious about the mechanics. I have spotted a reuse timer...is that somehow equated to cast time?

Also I'm not sure about the full memory capacity of course, but can you spec far enough into SMG to get FAR (which looks insanely powerful tbh) and still load all of the duelist path? Seems like you would need nearly 100 memory or more for that kinda spec (I'm sorry I mean loadout). Either way I can understand not seeing a duelist daze special much since as you say there is little reason to switch to Speed for a duelist.

And I misspoke I did mean Pistol Whip not Dual Point Blank (apologies).

Everything that a certain ab does (downgrades, upgrades etc) along with the cast timer goes together to get the DPS, i think. You could be right about the reuse timer affecting DPS aswell.

In interlock there is no cast timer, but an interlock acc bonus. I think that comes into effect to calculate the DPS aswell. As you work your way closer to 50, you'll notice that most abs should be increasing in DPS, meaning a more powerful attack but from outside interlock, but will be a longer cast timer.

I don't think it is possible to load 2 full trees, might be wrong though. Its a good idea to mix and match from trees. I had stuck to just Aikido and Kung Fu for a long while there but recently ditched some abs in Kung Fu and loaded in some Karate. There are alot of options to choose from when building your tree. You'll do some of it on the path to 50 but when you're 50 thats when you'll manage to properly see what you can and can't load at the same time.

Gensatsu wrote:

Also I'm not sure about the full memory capacity of course, but can you spec far enough into SMG to get FAR (which looks insanely powerful tbh) and still load all of the duelist path? Seems like you would need nearly 100 memory or more for that kinda spec (I'm sorry I mean loadout). Either way I can understand not seeing a duelist daze special much since as you say there is little reason to switch to Speed for a duelist.

And I misspoke I did mean Pistol Whip not Dual Point Blank (apologies).

Yes, you can load all of Duelist as well as Full Auto Redux.  And you're right, it does take almost 100 memory slots to do that, which is exactly how much you will have when you reach level 50.

The_Bruceter wrote:

Everything that a certain ab does (downgrades, upgrades etc) along with the cast timer goes together to get the DPS, i think. You could be right about the reuse timer affecting DPS aswell.

In interlock there is no cast timer, but an interlock acc bonus. I think that comes into effect to calculate the DPS aswell. As you work your way closer to 50, you'll notice that most abs should be increasing in DPS, meaning a more powerful attack but from outside interlock, but will be a longer cast timer.

I don't think it is possible to load 2 full trees, might be wrong though. Its a good idea to mix and match from trees. I had stuck to just Aikido and Kung Fu for a long while there but recently ditched some abs in Kung Fu and loaded in some Karate. There are alot of options to choose from when building your tree. You'll do some of it on the path to 50 but when you're 50 thats when you'll manage to properly see what you can and can't load at the same time.

Yea I can't find any tangible info explain interlock acc bonus (e.g. Does it apply to that attack or for a number of attacks following the special?), but I did notice it. I guess I'll just not worry too much about that now.

GypsyJuggler wrote:

CodeNut wrote:

GypsyJuggler wrote:

Yes it has been defined as an exploit but since Rarebit looked at the problem and decided not to fix it, it has essentially been accepted perforce as a viable way to play the game.

That's a rather dubious statement since Rarebit wasn't able to fix it, so how did he decide not to fix it?

Here is the thread: http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/..._id=36300021594

You might want a drink and a sandwich if you intend to read it all.

I remember reading that thread before it was locked and after looking through it again, it's still an exploit. Nothing there says it isn't. It was a theoretical discussion only. Rarebit clealy stated in that discussion that it was and still is an exploit. There isn't anything in that thread by Rarebit (or any other developer) that endorses your claim it isn't an exploit. It doesn't take long to look through 23 pages for dev posts. See for yourself.

Gensatsu wrote:

The_Bruceter wrote:

Everything that a certain ab does (downgrades, upgrades etc) along with the cast timer goes together to get the DPS, i think. You could be right about the reuse timer affecting DPS aswell.

In interlock there is no cast timer, but an interlock acc bonus. I think that comes into effect to calculate the DPS aswell. As you work your way closer to 50, you'll notice that most abs should be increasing in DPS, meaning a more powerful attack but from outside interlock, but will be a longer cast timer.

I don't think it is possible to load 2 full trees, might be wrong though. Its a good idea to mix and match from trees. I had stuck to just Aikido and Kung Fu for a long while there but recently ditched some abs in Kung Fu and loaded in some Karate. There are alot of options to choose from when building your tree. You'll do some of it on the path to 50 but when you're 50 thats when you'll manage to properly see what you can and can't load at the same time.

Yea I can't find any tangible info explain interlock acc bonus (e.g. Does it apply to that attack or for a number of attacks following the special?), but I did notice it. I guess I'll just not worry too much about that now.

Interlock Accuracy Bonus affects that attack only as an accuracy boost. It's part of the overall balance of the ability. DPS, IS Cost, IL Acc, Effects, State(s) required, etc. are all independent factors that add up to a total weight relative the ability's level.

I don't think the IL Acc bonus or reuse timer has anything to do with DPS. If anything, a high IL Acc bonus might reduce the DPS as part of the overall balance of the ability. I believe DPS in IL is still based on the cast timer out of IL. It's the only way the damage results make sense to me. Some abilities don't have an OOIL timer, so it's still a bit unclear.

You can barely load two trees to 50 in the same discipline if you remove all Awakened abilities and don't load any abilities off the main path of the trees. The level 50 abiltiies are upgrades. You can only have one Upgrade active at a time and you can't activate/switch them in combat state. The 5 memory it costs to load a second 50 ab at the expense of Awakened defenses, resistances, Hyperjump or Hyperspeed don't seem worth it to me for the passive buffs.

CodeNut wrote:

GypsyJuggler wrote:

CodeNut wrote:

GypsyJuggler wrote:

Yes it has been defined as an exploit but since Rarebit looked at the problem and decided not to fix it, it has essentially been accepted perforce as a viable way to play the game.

That's a rather dubious statement since Rarebit wasn't able to fix it, so how did he decide not to fix it?

Here is the thread: http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/..._id=36300021594

You might want a drink and a sandwich if you intend to read it all.

I remember reading that thread before it was locked and after looking through it again, it's still an exploit. Nothing there says it isn't. It was a theoretical discussion only. Rarebit clealy stated in that discussion that it was and still is an exploit. There isn't anything in that thread by Rarebit (or any other developer) that endorses your claim it isn't an exploit. It doesn't take long to look through 23 pages for dev posts. See for yourself.

You'll notice I did not claim it isn't an exploit, in fact the first thing I said is that it is defined as an exploit. 

I did state, however, that it has been accepted perforce as a viable way to play the game.  This means that it is generally accepted not only because there's essentially nothing that can be done about it but also because it's extremely difficult to avoid using the exploit unless you avoid combat entirely.  This assertion remains true and is not likely to change.

GypsyJuggler wrote:

 

You'll notice I did not claim it isn't an exploit, in fact the first thing I said is that it is defined as an exploit. 

I did state, however, that it has been accepted perforce as a viable way to play the game.  This means that it is generally accepted not only because there's essentially nothing that can be done about it but also because it's extremely difficult to avoid using the exploit unless you avoid combat entirely.  This assertion remains true and is not likely to change.

The first thing you said was to explain how to use this bug while avoiding saying it's an exploit.

And then you said this:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

The Tactic Switch has been "approved" by the devs at the end of the few dozen page long discussion about it ages ago.

I still don't think it's a good idea but not using it, believe me, puts you at a sever disadvantage in duels and PvP.

It has not been approved by any developer at the end of the thread you later referred to. Or anywhere in that thread. What you say happened in that thread never happened. 

It is an exploit. Teaching an exploit is as bad as using an exploit. That was the first thing I said here and it still stands. If you agree it's an exploit, why are you arguing with me?

It's not extremely difficult to avoid doing this. How is it difficult by any measure to not change tactics when your ability hits? It's harder to change tactics to exploit the bug. That takes practice. That's what makes it an exploit, the intentional effort to use a bug to gain an advantage.

I was shown how to do this long ago. It took practice to get it down. Then I stopped doing it because it's an exploit. I don't exploit. It took practice to unlearn the instinct to do it that I had to practice to learn in the first place. It takes just as much skill to change tactics after the damage rolls for an ability that hits as it does to change tactics before the damage rolls.

There are very few reasons to want to change tactics immediately after an ability hits unless you are trying to do this exploit. Either way it takes the same skill. But it takes no skill at all to not change tactics.

If you truly understand the combat system, then you wouldn't have to do this to be good. This dumbs down the combat system to a grab power rotation that still doesn't gaurantee wins.

But none of that matters because it's an exploit. We agree. Next time you decide to teach it to someone, be sure to tell them you're teaching them an exploit.

I see by your response you understand none of the subject matter. 

If you want to argue about it feel free to approach me ingame as public humiliation often offends. 

I remember that thread and i am pretty sure 1 of the devs replied and did say that it is an exploit. You don't really need to 'teach' anyone it, they tend to find it out for theirselfs. Pretty much everyone does it.. not saying it should be allowed, but well it is generally acceptable. Only prob with that exploit is tactic to diff states (power causes off balance >_< I use to do that by accident but it is hard to not use the exploit. You change tactic at what you think is an alright time but the system plays out the tactic you were on (if i notice it i always change back now, actually managed to save myself doing the state sploit a fair bit.)

Now that i know about the defense exploit.. doing it the other way about, does that mean when i change gear and not refresh hyper, i'm actually not gaining the benefits from the clothes?  (well apart from resistance) Cause dam, that sucks, and means i can also actually be exploiting without meaning it O_O Now thats fooked up..

Gensatsu wrote:

The_Bruceter wrote:

Everything that a certain ab does (downgrades, upgrades etc) along with the cast timer goes together to get the DPS, i think. You could be right about the reuse timer affecting DPS aswell.

In interlock there is no cast timer, but an interlock acc bonus. I think that comes into effect to calculate the DPS aswell. As you work your way closer to 50, you'll notice that most abs should be increasing in DPS, meaning a more powerful attack but from outside interlock, but will be a longer cast timer.

I don't think it is possible to load 2 full trees, might be wrong though. Its a good idea to mix and match from trees. I had stuck to just Aikido and Kung Fu for a long while there but recently ditched some abs in Kung Fu and loaded in some Karate. There are alot of options to choose from when building your tree. You'll do some of it on the path to 50 but when you're 50 thats when you'll manage to properly see what you can and can't load at the same time.

Yea I can't find any tangible info explain interlock acc bonus (e.g. Does it apply to that attack or for a number of attacks following the special?), but I did notice it. I guess I'll just not worry too much about that now.

Interlock acc bonus only applies to that move you've used. Each move has a different acc bonus reward, so certain moves should hopefully outroll other moves. Just don't look at the hackers interlock acc bonus

CodeNut wrote:

G