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Hyper Jumping > Backpeddling?
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Systemic Anomaly

Joined: Aug 15, 2005
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[p]Something that always confused me when it came to pvp and people complaning about hyper jump was that they never talk about backpeddling or running away. There almost the same thing really and sometimes running can be faster then a HJ but you never see any threads with people asking to nerf Hyper Speed. So figured I'd ask why that is.[/p][p]What makes Hyperjumping more of a pvp taboo then running away?[/p][p](please keep it civil)[/p]
Message edited by GamiSB on 12/25/2007 11:33:50.



Vindicator

Joined: Aug 1, 2006
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You know, that's a good question. 
The way I figure it, while the straight-line speed of each may be similar, a HJ must move your character faster because it has a lot further to travel to get around the parabola.  Chasing a runner is easier because you can see where they go and so long as they don't have much head start you can keep up with them.  If someone hyperjumps on the other hand, they're suddenly moving very quickly in a direction that's much harder to look at - not to mention avoiding corners, cars and other obstacles.  So by the time you see where they're headed they're already halfway there.  Then there's the fact that you can't change direction during hyperjump (aside from back-jumping which is a bug anyway).  If you don't line up perfectly when you try to follow a jumper then you'll end up going off target enough that you'll miss them anyway.  That's why /face was taken out. 

So all in all, while running in a straight line is technically as fast a way to travel, hyperjumping gives you a much greater chance of escaping pursuivants successfully.


Message edited by GypsyJuggler on 02/06/2009 17:01:01.



Femme Fatale

Joined: Mar 31, 2006
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I am not much of a PvPer, as you'll be able to tell when I say I am a 50 with only 43cq points, anyway I noticed something on the rare occasion I decided to have a go, people only HJ'ed to get away from certain death (i.e. surrounded by lots of hostiles) and they would be straight back in a place where they can get back in the action without being surrounded if they are PvPing properly, if someone was attacking you IRL and you were about to die if you could you would HJ away.  I found it more irritating when people ran, as you could see them as they darted left and right up and down steps just out of reach, there was those who ran straight for the HL and hit the loading bay... or worst of all, those who would fight like men till their health was very low and hit /suicide.  So I don't really see the problem with HJ, mabey they should stop /suicide when in combat, as well as Hyper Speed and Backpeddling, oh and HL's.  Having a chance to escape death isn't a bad thing, just dont hit the HL or suicide... simple (No it isn't!)



Ascendent Logic

Joined: Mar 1, 2006
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It really depends on your loadout. If you're an MA, chances are you've maxed out Belief. Therefore, you'll run faster than most people (assuming you have no movement debuffs), you can cover more ground than a Ctrl+Space HJ. Only thing is if you have buildings in the way, it'll suck.

HJ has to be one of the "get in, get out' escape tools there is.



Systemic Anomaly

Joined: Oct 7, 2005
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you can catch upto somebody with HS at 160% if you just have normal HS at 130% by just running diagonally, with HJ also there is a 0% chance of being attacked in midair, while running if a red is behind you with neuro darts then by the time you've only just got to him he could have neuro darted you



Jacked Out

Joined: Apr 3, 2006
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Simply put, it's more annoying and time consuming to track and chase down a hyper-jumper rather than someone who's simply just running. A person can only run for so long until someone cuts them off to stop them. Harder to predict a hyper-jumper's movements, as they have many more options of running.


Jacked Out

Joined: Aug 29, 2005
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Running away you offer some bonuses to wear % speed and get the right therefore to run away faster than the chaser/chasee. The problem is however that its nerfed to 160% and I think it shud be nerfed at 180% or 190%.


Systemic Anomaly

Joined: Aug 24, 2005
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The Leo wrote:
Running away you offer some bonuses to wear % speed and get the right therefore to run away faster than the chaser/chasee. The problem is however that its nerfed to 160% and I think it shud be nerfed at 180% or 190%.
The reason speed is capped at 160 is that at one time it was much higher..and we could 'outrun' the game engine....Quite pretty to see but hell trying to play properly.  So..way back in cr1 they nerfed the speed cap at something that wouldnt tax the 'average' machine and crash your client all the time

*bring back Dbl-tap Roll


Doc



Systemic Anomaly

Joined: Dec 9, 2005
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Healthiest medium would be to make HJ activated through reticule-only. Meaning you'd activate it via the hotbar. I wouldn't mind that so much at all.



Jacked Out

Joined: Jan 3, 2006
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stop running.


Femme Fatale

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
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HJ is more a taboo because you get out of shooting/throwing/attacking range within a second (even less than a second) while when you run with max speed it still takes a few seconds to get out of shooting range.
Running isn't a faster method to escape. Hyperjumping with ctrl+space is the quickest way to escape. That's the reason why some don't like HJ, because it makes escaping (or rather dissapearing SMILEY ) too easy.



Jacked Out

Joined: Jun 20, 2006
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Zerotolerance wrote:
Healthiest medium would be to make HJ activated through reticule-only. Meaning you'd activate it via the hotbar. I wouldn't mind that so much at all.

umm no.  HJ is fine the way it is.


Perceptive Mind

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
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Neither is taboo but there are many strong opinions that escaping combat in PvP is taboo. The problem is that other things like enraged and taunt don't work. Taunt should pull NPCs but it doesn't.  In pvp it should it should prevent HJ for a brief period which it probably isn't designed to do but would be an appropriate effect if the ability worked right. Enraged also doesn't work which means the MA and gun trees have abiltiies that should keep an opponent in interlock, but don't. It should prevent HJ as well and again I don't know if enraged is supposed to prevent HJ but it would be appropriate if it actually worked and had that effect.

In that respect the difference between HJ and backpeddling/speed is you have abilities that can actually affect the opponent's speed to either root or slow them even while the opponent is running away. Whereas with HJ, the abilties that might help counter it are bugged.

Since launch, both hyperjump and speed have been nerfed and now /face /follow has been disabled against hostile targets. IMO this is a disappointing and downward spyral that doesn't end as peeps are now talking about nerfing hyperjump yet again because of how upsetting it is that an opponent actually has a way to escape combat or imminent death.

The solution to me is based on the premise that if you have no way to escape then the attacker is always at an advantage which is just as bogus as someone possessing the abiltiy for gauranteed escape (neither extreme is truly the case but these are the two sides of the coin). Therefore what really needs to be done is to unnerf hyperjump and speed, bring back /face, /follow and fix enrage and taunt to not only do what they are supposed to do but to also block hyperjump for a period of say 4 seconds.

This will of course allow people to run too fast and their hyperjump will at times 'exceed the limits of the Matrix' again but I say so what? If your jump exceeds the limit of the Matrix, then you have to use manual mode with the targetting reticule. If your speed is so fast it causes your client to crash, then you have to find the max speed you can run without crashing. If someone tracks you using /face /follow, then you have to figure out how to lose the tail. This promotes and rewards knowledgeable and skillfull play. Nerfing hyperjump and speed and deactivating /face /follow against hostiles, IMO, is just handholding noobs and catering to greivers at the expense of rewarding skillful play and knowledge of the code. After all, what is more Matrixy than true knowledge of the code and the ability to overmanipulate it and suffer a crash or have to use HJ manual mode because max jump is too big for the Matrix from your current location.

That's my 47 cents SMILEY

 

Edited cause my typing suxxorz

 


Message edited by r3spon5e on 02/13/2007 14:44:23.


Jacked Out

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If I HJ I'm getting away at any cost, low health, zerg, whatever. If you run away I'm trying to draw you away for a one-on-one quick kill before your buddys come looking for you, or to run stop /taunt, run stop /taunt. Making you mad so you post on the forums lol.  I have more respect for a runner cause it's harder to run away than it is to HJ for an hour..



Matriculated Mind

Joined: Mar 25, 2007
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My general rule of thumb for this issue is to always move toward my enemy and never away. This makes PvP REEAAL easy because I just hold down the "w" key and never press the "s" key, "alt" key, or the space bar. =)

In my opinion; the objective of a war is to survive, the objective of PVP is to fight to the death and then recon. Running/HJing away is boring; and if you do either then you have already lost.

There are exceptions of course; such as when I run/HJ to chase some wimp who ran/HJed away. Sometimes this creates the illusion that I am running/HJing away because the person I am chasing is running/HJing away even though they and their buddies out number me 3 (or lmfao...10) to 1.

 
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